Would you allow an Astromech that has a Skill of 2 in Piloting, to:

A: Provide a Skilled Assist to Piloting as an Action in Space Combat (I asked this to Sam Stewart, and his reply was along the lines of "Not as RAI, but as a GM he would allow it so long as the Droid spent his ACTION doing so).

B: Pilot the ship, on its own (My group have mentioned it would be nice to be able to call the Droid and ask it to fly the ship to them). WITHOUT the ship having an Astromech Socket.

Context.

My group has just finished Trouble Brewing, and are on their way to collect the Bounty.

R4 the Astro is with them, and I plan on making a GM NPC, who would be prepared to tag along with the group if it is paid a share of any jobs they do (NPC run by Me, so it would technically become a GM PC).

One of my players asked a relevent question.

Can the droid FLY their YT-1300 even if the ship has no Droid Socket... My immediate reaction was along the lines of "I dont see why not, it can plug into a data port" but then recanted that since his question brought up some obvious advantages to doing Just That.

So.... I am asking you lot what you think.

Is a Droid Socket REQUIRED for the Droid to either Fly, or Help Fly the ship.

Or does that give my players a huge advantage.

(They get their asses kicked against 2x Minion groups of Headhunters, and an Ugly... I hugely over estimated the power levels there... but you live and learn, and they lived, and I learned a huge amount from that!)

So.. yeah...

Thoughts?

Cheers!

RD

A data port is not the same to me as the astromech plug on X-wings etc. And even in those cases, the astromech can't actually pilot the ship, IIRC.

But certainly not just from a data port. That's basically a USB plug-in. It accesses certain systems and information. It doesn't just let you remote control the ship from there.

Now if the droid could use the actual bridge piloting controls with manipulators...sure why not.

I would agree that the ship is not designed to accept digital flight commands. It's designed to be flown from the pilots seat. I personally would require that they would have to install an astromech slot, or get the 'call circuits' upgrade from one of the splat books floating out there (that upgrade is basically designed to allow basic fly-by-data). Even still I would limit it to flying - make sure the guns aren't attached to the system.

What having an R4 along for the ride is great for is your Astronavegation checks, and computer-related combat support actions. If you have a smart character is can make a great skilled assistance bank.

and yet an astromechs droid brain is used to fly a ship one assumes without physically taking hold of the ship controls with 0 Hardpoints required, and is a few instances in canon where an R2 units jacks into the ships controls and uses ships weapon systems from a USB port as it were.

Personally I would give PC R-series more freedoms here than an NPC R-series unit and limit an NPC R-series unit to only using assist actions as its detailed in the Stay on Target sourcebook

Basically NPC astromechs are only allowed to roll to Assist on piloting checks and for every 3 Advantages or a Triumph they can do one other astromech manuver or action and count as having received a single success on the check with no additional roll being made.

The ship likely doesn't have one interface that allows access to every ship function however unless it is setup with an Astromech socket, or as depicted on the Nubian Star Skiff an Astromech Bay. So if the droid is flying the ship i wouldn't allow it to fly the ship and fire weapons and perform damage control or engineering tasks, absent that socketed hardpoint

I think Chopper does exactly that on the Rebels TV series, so as long as the manipulators can operate the controls, I don’t see a problem with an Astromech doing basic flight.

But that’s not having full control over the ship. Install an Astromech socket attachment, and it would be able to do that.

There are other attachments that are add a droid pilot brain to the ship without taking up any hard points, but they’re expensive. There are less expensive attachments that let the player control the ship remotely, too.

As GM, I’d say it’s your call. Yes, the players could take advantage of it. But then, so can you….

I would allow the assist:

R2 helps Luke all the time. Increase power ...helps with repairing the shields...etc. This could easily be translated to a boost dice for piloting checks.

I would allow the piloting:

to an extent. Simple flying, autopilot or simple plotted course: translated to-- basically warning PCs if autopilot messes up or something is wrong in the plotted course. Anything else is for PCs.

I say yes, a Droid Socket is absolutely required for an Astromech to pilot a ship. A Droid Socket need not be external, it can be inside the ship. But it contains the interfaces necessary for the droid to pilot. The droid cannot pilot the ship without this. It doesn't have the body parts to fly a ship any other way and it can't see over the cockpit dashboard if it did!

Stay on Target page 72-72 covers this topic. NPC astromechs are primarily relegated to Assists, but can do actual Maneuvers if the Pilot rolls enough Advantage or a Triumph. PC astromechs IN A SOCKET are given a list of Maneuvers and Actions they may perform.

If you really wanted this Astromech to get in on the action, you would have to treat him more like a "GM controlled PC" then a standard "NPC". Then he could get his own initiative slot, roll for pilot actions, etc, instead of just assisting PCs during their initiative slot.

There are two "Droid Brain" vehicle attachments in Fly Casual, page 62, The AutoPilot Droid Brain can pilot a craft (skill level 2). The Astrgoation Droid Brain can, astrogate (skill level 2). These are hardwired attachments, but neither take up a HP. They cost a little little then an Astromech each. The standard Rival Astromech NPC droid in RAW has Astrogation 3 and Pilot 2. I would personally allow him to make an Astrogation roll in a pinch using a data port (no PCs are around that he could assist instead), but I wouldn't allow him to actually Pilot (just assist) UNLESS he was stuffed in a droid socket (a temporary way to hardwire himself in like the droid brains above).

I don't see how it would hurt if the NPC droid from time to time flew the X-Wing over to your or Astrogated the YT-1300. I would make sure he only had the standard skills unless you made him a GM PC. You want the actual PCs to be better then the piece of equipment they picked up.

For a while now we've been having our astromech fly our 1300 clone without any hardware additions and just handwaving any notions of ports or plugins or if he reach the controls or not. We need the ship, the ship comes. It hasn't been abused, it doesn't really mess up the game or make our lives easier and it works to move the plot along as necessary.

I say go for it!

For a while now we've been having our astromech fly our 1300 clone without any hardware additions and just handwaving any notions of ports or plugins or if he reach the controls or not. We need the ship, the ship comes. It hasn't been abused, it doesn't really mess up the game or make our lives easier and it works to move the plot along as necessary.

I say go for it!

This! No need to bring rules in if it doesn't enhance the experience.

I see nothing wrong with allowing the Astromech to fly, and perform all the normal non-astromech restricted maneuvers/actions withotu the need of a socket. No reason the droid can't just roll his shiny metal ___ to the cockpit and manipulate the controls directly or through a panel diagnostics port. He won't be able to do the fancy stuff and if he wants to say operate a weapon or system not controllable from the cockpit he'll have to roll himself to the appropriate control station just like any other character.

I wouldn't allow a skilled assist on piloting checks, that's what copilot and plot course are for. And honestly, copilot might be better, while it won't reduce the difficulty, it will reduce the probability of a despair, which isn't something you want when flying though an asteroid field at any speed/sil....

You can make an astromech droid as a player character, so they should be able to pilot ships in one creative way or another, or at least at the helm, like other species. Maybe some modding or slicing is required, but that is up to the GM.

I would allow it and reward creative thinking and initiative from the player, just say they find a port and connect some wires and find a clever way to do it in-game.

I say yes, a Droid Socket is absolutely required for an Astromech to pilot a ship. A Droid Socket need not be external, it can be inside the ship. But it contains the interfaces necessary for the droid to pilot. The droid cannot pilot the ship without this. It doesn't have the body parts to fly a ship any other way and it can't see over the cockpit dashboard if it did!

This, I would go with this to keep it from getting too crazy. Why isn't every ship flown by droids? Moreover, why don't all ships just fly themselves? "Send out the Google-wings!" This was the Trade Federation's shtick alone, so it must be an entirely different paradigm.

I'd go so far as to just have the "socket" pre-installed in the party's ship (call it something else) if I knew an astromech would be part of the team to curtail debate.

this is one of the problems I am having with the rules for making Droid Characters.

Because the game system doesn't have any "Limitiations" or quirks and flaws rules, There is nothing in the rules that prevents a Droid of any configuration appearance from doing Anything a Humanoid with Hands and Feat can do.

Yes, it is apparent from the movies that Astromechs should be limited to some degree physcially.

But By the Rules I have read, I am not seeing Any reasonable way to enforce said Limitations than by GM Fiat. And then the PC is gaining a Limitation with no Balancing Benefit that No other PC has.

For a while now we've been having our astromech fly our 1300 clone without any hardware additions and just handwaving any notions of ports or plugins or if he reach the controls or not. We need the ship, the ship comes. It hasn't been abused, it doesn't really mess up the game or make our lives easier and it works to move the plot along as necessary.

I say go for it!

Agreed.

Allow an astromech to do as other PCs/NPCs can do, perhaps just narrating it a bit differently (and remember to follow much the same restrictions too, like using the correct station for the proper action, or moving around the ship to properly conduct repairs).

If I want the astromech to perform the additional astromech actions from Stay On Target, or perform all their actions (piloting, computer, mechanical) largely from a single station I would require an astromech slot; only an astromech slot would incorporate the necessary technology to allow all those functions and versatility in a single accessible point, allowing one or more astromechs to get the most out of their talents. I imagine that justifies the cost of 2 HPs to install.

In an ongoing game I included an Astromech slot in the group starship's base stats to compensate for the group's small size (two PCs plus the astromech), allowing us to deal with encounters better suited to a larger party (I have little interest in altering adventure modules to better suit our group and the other GM likely lacks the experience).

Because the game system doesn't have any "Limitiations" or quirks and flaws rules, There is nothing in the rules that prevents a Droid of any configuration appearance from doing Anything a Humanoid with Hands and Feat can do.

Yes, it is apparent from the movies that Astromechs should be limited to some degree physcially.

There could be an endless list of things the RAW does not cover specifically. That is what GMs are for.

But By the Rules I have read, I am not seeing Any reasonable way to enforce said Limitations than by GM Fiat. And then the PC is gaining a Limitation with no Balancing Benefit that No other PC has.

You mean like Humans being able to log directly into a dataport? Or Humans being unable to speak binary? Or Humans having to constantly breath a certain type of gas or fall over dead? Or.......

Throwing a Setback or 2 at the Astromech using manipulators in the Pilot or Gunnery pit isn't a huge penalty that needs to be compensated for in the RAW character generation.

I vaguely recall some Legends material having Artoo and Threepio flying the MF. Threepio had to manipulate the controls with his humanoid limbs but he was given skilled assistance from Artoo.

Yes, if its a minor inconvenience that the players don't want to play, like shuttling someone on the planet.

I'll just throw later some consequences, like an impound of the vehicle or hull trauma.

this is one of the problems I am having with the rules for making Droid Characters.

Because the game system doesn't have any "Limitiations" or quirks and flaws rules, There is nothing in the rules that prevents a Droid of any configuration appearance from doing Anything a Humanoid with Hands and Feat can do.

Yes, it is apparent from the movies that Astromechs should be limited to some degree physcially.

But By the Rules I have read, I am not seeing Any reasonable way to enforce said Limitations than by GM Fiat. And then the PC is gaining a Limitation with no Balancing Benefit that No other PC has.

It is a narrative story focused game... Every single character is subjected to the story and how the surroundings react to how they look and act and the species they are, droid or otherwise.

If I could just take a step back for a moment to address the broader issue. The reason the OP is encountering this problem in particular is that it’s straying from one of the cardinal rules of RPG’s: keep the spotlight on the player characters. This is why DMPCs have such a horrible reputation, landing in the top tier of every “what not to do” list.

If no one is skilling-up Pilot in a meaningful way, such that the droid is better than the PC’s, then your players are telling you that they’re not particularly interested in starship encounters. So the answer is to simply have fewer, easier starship encounters where the PCs can take point, even with their meager stats, and devote more time to where they players have directed their character builds.

I realize the OP is going with "modules" here, and that’s fine, but the challenge, numerically, on every one of those can be tweaked to accommodate the party, both in difficulty and length.

One of my players asked a relevent question.

Can the droid FLY their YT-1300 even if the ship has no Droid Socket... My immediate reaction was along the lines of "I dont see why not, it can plug into a data port" but then recanted that since his question brought up some obvious advantages to doing Just That.

Almost the same situation with my lot of murder hobos. My group ran into a Vulptereen they absolutely loved. The NPC was a total idiot but somehow was a savant at piloting. The NPC was from a character's backstory, so they managed to convince him to tag along with pay. They tried using him to pilot the ship for them several times. They made the mistake, at one point, of telling him to try and force another ship to ground. The little Vulptereen, true to his idiotic and violent character, tried to ram the other ship out of the sky. From that point on, they used him only as a copilot since he caused a rather severe critical injury to the ship.

I don't know if it would work with an R4 unit, but you could give it some personality flaw that makes them really consider using the droid for anything but the most basic tasks.

I don't know if it would work with an R4 unit, but you could give it some personality flaw that makes them really consider using the droid for anything but the most basic tasks.

Like, maybe he’s super-literal in how he implements orders?

If you tell him to fly straight from point A to point B, he does so — without regard for whatever obstacles might be in the way? So, that building? It now has a ship-shaped hole in it.

If you tell him to fly the ship right now, he does so — without regard for whether or not all the hatches have been closed and all the tools put away and whoever might be on the outside of the ship doing a repair?

Yeah, that could be fun.

I don't know if it would work with an R4 unit, but you could give it some personality flaw that makes them really consider using the droid for anything but the most basic tasks.

Like, maybe he’s super-literal in how he implements orders?

If you tell him to fly straight from point A to point B, he does so — without regard for whatever obstacles might be in the way? So, that building? It now has a ship-shaped hole in it.

If you tell him to fly the ship right now, he does so — without regard for whether or not all the hatches have been closed and all the tools put away and whoever might be on the outside of the ship doing a repair?

Yeah, that could be fun.

PCs will try to work around that, though. Which can be fun, but you also get into the same scenario as those old D&D games where people try to get super-specific with the wording of a Wish so that the GM can't wriggle out of it. It's fine, but for true and lasting fun, I say you can't beat the occasional and inexplicable glitch.

PC: "Take us to Tattooine"

Droid: "Got it. Plotting course for Dagobah, now."

PC: "What? No, Tattoine!"

Droid: "Understood. Astrogation results in 15 seconds."

PC: "For Tatooine, right?"

Droid: "Correct."

PC: "How long will it take us to get there?"

Droid: "We should arrive at the Dagobah system in 73 hours."

PC: "No! You're supposed to be taking us to Tattooine!"

Droid: "Understood. Initiating hyperspace jump."

PC: "WHere to?"

Droid: "Dagobah, as requested"

*launch*

They later arrive at Tattooine (or Dagobah, or wherever). Don't do it often, or drastically alter their plans. Just through them the odd off-the-wall glitch.

Yeah. Give him an attitude like Chopper. That would be a lot of fun. ;)

I think I'd find a droid like Chopper about as much fun as more Jar-Jar.