Three Defenders is a hard list to run successfully. (I still claim 4 would be a force to recon with.) The Defender needs another threat to fly with. Its when the Defender is NOT the top priority of the opponent that it does its damage.

I'm looking forward to the Advanced fix as I believe the Advanced and the Defender are well suited to fly together.

Vader+Title+ATC+EU

2x Delta

Then you can add Predator and Prockets to Vader or Ion Cannons to the Deltas. All depends on how you want to fly them.

Or, one could run Vessery and two Advanced of their choosing. These lists will be both fun and durable.

I think the Phantom change REALLY hurts the Defender. Since the Phantom change made the generics viable, you can run a 29-point monster like this one:

Sigma Squadron Pilot (25)

Fire-Control System (2)

Stygium Particle Accelerator (2)

Total: 29

You still also have the flexibility of the crew slot. With careful flying the Sigma will live longer, has better action economy and will probably do more damage over its lifetime. Yes it won't be firing every turn, but when it does it really hurts.

I'm not sure I agree. Granted, I was flying this exact same ship prior to the new FAQ was announced, but the changes in the new FAQ do not give it more 'durability' (other than hoping to bump enemy ships with the decloak, I guess---similar to the enhanced scopes + intel agent version). Anyway, I ended up switching to the defender because of difficulty keeping it alive. Part of the problem is its firepower is so great that it attracts a lot of attention----more than a naked delta would.

Having said that, if you have two of them and a strong flanker (perhaps echo/whisper) it might make for a pretty potent alpha strike---more so than you could get out of similar cost defenders. However, keeping it alive long enough to get the most out of those 4 attack dice might be difficult since it can't arc-dodge and its decloaks are more predictible (enemy knows where its gonna be before dials revealed).

The reason I like it better now, is because I'll always be able to decloak exactly where I want to. On the turn I decloak I'll at the very least have a focus and evade and possibly even a TL. I'm also okay if my opponent knows where I'm decloaking as (just like the 4k)often times there's nothing they can do about it anyway. Yes turrets can still get a shot on me, but 2dice + focus & evade isn't too shabby. Often times I'll even do a straight decloak + kturn to get behind someone. Even in that situation you still get an evade and possibly a TL.

Defenders have more hp, but they'll be rolling a lot more unmodified dice than the Phantom for the same cost.

The reason I like it better now, is because I'll always be able to decloak exactly where I want to. On the turn I decloak I'll at the very least have a focus and evade and possibly even a TL. I'm also okay if my opponent knows where I'm decloaking as (just like the 4k)often times there's nothing they can do about it anyway. Yes turrets can still get a shot on me, but 2dice + focus & evade isn't too shabby. Often times I'll even do a straight decloak + kturn to get behind someone. Even in that situation you still get an evade and possibly a TL.

Defenders have more hp, but they'll be rolling a lot more unmodified dice than the Phantom for the same cost.

Just to be clear, I agree with you that the Sigma is probably a better ship than the Delta, but even with your example, I still don't see the Sigma surviving better than the delta. Sigma w/ evade+focus and 2 greens might not take much damage from 1 or 2 shots, but any more and its toast. Same is kinda true for the defender, except it has a bit more hull/shield before it goes down. Having said that, I am reconsidering 2 Sigmas with FCS + SPA. I just need to figure out the best thing to run it with. Also thinking of slapping on mara jade on one of them...

Tonight was our scum and villainy release event, and I brought 3x Delta + Ion Cannon. I've been having some decent success with them, but not tonight. Destroyed a 3x X-wing list flown by a new player. Then I got destroyed by a double pancake list featuring Chewbacca and Leebo. I was so close to Ioning Leebo off the board, but he evaded. At that point I would have been hard pressed to destroy Chewie anyway, so I guess it didn't matter. Mangler on Leebo and Calculation on Chewie meant he was rolling crits left and right! Finally, I faced a 3x Firespray list, and just couldn't finish them off fast enough. It ended with one Firespray destroyed, one with 3 hull left, and the last one untouched. Finished 9th of 11.

So yeah. I think my little stint with the TIE defender is over. Don't mind me as I go crawling back to Soontir Fel. (But don't be surprised if I pull these bad boys out for epic games either!)

I hear ya. I have had 7 matches now on VASSAL with Whisper & Brath. Although actually the last 2 I tried Vessery instead. 3 - 4. 3 matches I feel the dice let me down, but in every match I made at least one error, so dice aren't entirely to blame. I think I'm gonna try something different since I feel the things its weak against are just too prevalent right now. This list probably would've been better during the '2 ship wave 5 era'. With people running larger squads, an overpriced 50 pts defender doesn't cut it.

Yeah well put it how you want, the Defender is just about 2-3 points too expensive (Just like the E-Wing is as well) And that includes every pilot from Brath to delta.

I suppose FFG just did not want to make the white Koio too cheap, and that's how they overshot the pricing pretty hard. (Yeah and that in the same wave the Phantom came out for 5 points cheaper base with all its gimmicks ... Mysteries of ship costing unsolved...)

To be somewhat competitive the ship should be able to put 3 decently outfitted Defenders into 100 points. Which is not the case sadly!

It was just a pricing mistake, but i guess one that is very very hard to fix now. It's a shame for such an awesome looking ship with such a huge fanbase too!

Yeah well put it how you want, the Defender is just about 2-3 points too expensive (Just like the E-Wing is as well) And that includes every pilot from Brath to delta.

I suppose FFG just did not want to make the white Koio too cheap, and that's how they overshot the pricing pretty hard. (Yeah and that in the same wave the Phantom came out for 5 points cheaper base with all its gimmicks ... Mysteries of ship costing unsolved...)

To be somewhat competitive the ship should be able to put 3 decently outfitted Defenders into 100 points. Which is not the case sadly!

It was just a pricing mistake, but i guess one that is very very hard to fix now. It's a shame for such an awesome looking ship with such a huge fanbase too!

I doubt its difficult to fix. Title for -2 points off a cannon would do it, imo.

But whatever they end up doing, I'm not holding my breath. I mean, look how long it took to get a TIE advanced fix!

In the meantime, I'm going to give the double deltas w/ flechette + loaded Soontir a try. If that fails, then I'm moving on!

Yeah well put it how you want, the Defender is just about 2-3 points too expensive (Just like the E-Wing is as well) And that includes every pilot from Brath to delta.

I suppose FFG just did not want to make the white Koio too cheap, and that's how they overshot the pricing pretty hard. (Yeah and that in the same wave the Phantom came out for 5 points cheaper base with all its gimmicks ... Mysteries of ship costing unsolved...)

To be somewhat competitive the ship should be able to put 3 decently outfitted Defenders into 100 points. Which is not the case sadly!

It was just a pricing mistake, but i guess one that is very very hard to fix now. It's a shame for such an awesome looking ship with such a huge fanbase too!

I doubt its difficult to fix. Title for -2 points off a cannon would do it, imo.

But whatever they end up doing, I'm not holding my breath. I mean, look how long it took to get a TIE advanced fix!

In the meantime, I'm going to give the double deltas w/ flechette + loaded Soontir a try. If that fails, then I'm moving on!

Eh between us (me) suggesting a title to give one more attack and others saying give it sensors it didn't take ffg all that long to implement really.

We do have to allow time for playtesting.

The Advanced is a special case too. This is one of the big 4 (X-wing, Tie Fighter, Millennium Falcon, Tie Advanced) that iconically define Star Wars space battles. When FFG fixed the Advanced it could not just be a tack-on fix. They took the time to do it right.

I have faith the same thing will be done with the E-wing and the Defender. I don't think they will take as long as the Advanced to fix as these ships don't have movie icon status looming over them.