Just ask yourself this question: Were you personally pleased with the ship?

If your answer is yes, just continue to use it and don't bother with people trying to convince you that the ship is bad. It works for you and that's all that counts. Some people don't like the Defender because they expected a Tie Interceptor on steroids; Some people don't like the ship because they have trouble clearing stress; Some people don,t like the ship simply because some other person told them so.

At the end of the day, you should not care about their opinions and use the ships you like and work for you. For my part, I won a tournament with a Defender in my list so I think they are fine and all those overpriced argument flying around are exagerated. They fit my playstyle.

and most useful turns are red

If you think that it's because you're flying it like an Interceptor++.

Poor action bar (it really should have had boost native or evade)

The loss of evade on a single action three agility ship isn't crippling because Focus does pretty much that same thing. Native boost I have to agree would do wonders for the TIE defender.

and to be really nitpicky, mutually exclusive upgrades (you probably are not going to equip a missile if you equip a cannon)...

Unless it's Cluster on Vessery, you're not going to equip a missile period until they sort out ordnance. And when ordnance is sorted out then the cannon vs ordnance relationship is up for reevaluation.

Red 1 and 2, its 3 turn is white as is its koiogran. Evade isn't really that much better than focus on a 3 die ship. Is the red koiogran turn on all other ships crippling? No. It's more that they have to go straight to shed that stress. The red 1 turn is in a way an advantage in disguise: nobody ever expects you to do it.

The Defender's problem is that it excels at long range but has a fast dial that pushes it into situations. The trick to it is learning how to keep it fighting at range. The 1 bank is your friend, as is the cannon slot. If you can't afford the HLC the Mangler's pretty **** nasty too. The crit is a highly underestimated effect because it gets mathematically quantified in terms of Direct Hit and Minor Explosion and not on the rest of the damage deck.

It's a hard ship to play well, and as a result isn't popular. People tend to (myself included) assume a ship is bad if they lose with it, as if skill level is a constant and it's all list building.

One thing I find very useful for them is a Command Shuttle (Fleet Officer, Advanced Sensors, Omicron Group Pilot). You've also got a spare crew slot for Weapons Engineer if you want to combo with Vessery, and it frees them up to use their barrel roll without losing offensive potency. I also think the TIE defender is the single best ship for Hull Upgrade in the game: Hull Upgrade is much better behind 3 agility, and unlike the TIE interceptor the TIE defender gets shot a lot more.

He's got a good point. It is not the ship that you build but the squadron list. Take a look at the Black Squadron Pilots. They are horrible when you compare them to academy pilots but you have seen the Tie Swarm change from 6 obsidian + Howlrunner to 4 Academy and 4 Black Squadron. Sure there are some lists with a center piece like Biggs or Whisper but they don't come alone.

But yeah with Tie Defenders being a fairly expensive ship when making a list you have to build around the expensive ship and in the end that puts limitations on the list.

"Evade isn't that much better than focus."

Soontir would like to have a word with you about tokens.

They just don't have the ability to stay alive if your opponent wants them dead. Compare a 35-point Soontir to a base Vessery. Does anyone really think that they're both worth the same. How about 44-point whisper? Does any build of any defender get you the same efficiency, survivability and damage? Not a chance. Not at any cost. They just aren't very good.

Some people can do well with them, but that's primarily due to their opponent not being used to facing one.

"Evade isn't that much better than focus."

Soontir would like to have a word with you about tokens.

They just don't have the ability to stay alive if your opponent wants them dead. Compare a 35-point Soontir to a base Vessery. Does anyone really think that they're both worth the same. How about 44-point whisper? Does any build of any defender get you the same efficiency, survivability and damage? Not a chance. Not at any cost. They just aren't very good.

Some people can do well with them, but that's primarily due to their opponent not being used to facing one.

Evade is nice, but will usually be the second action picked by a mobile 3 agility ship. Focus first, then Evade.

Since Defenders do not mix well with PtL, they will have only one action to pick. So, Focus do the job and Evade would be very situational.

TIE Pilot is absolutely right.

"They just don't have the ability to stay alive if your opponent wants them dead." Your point being? I could say the same about EVERY ship in the game.

"Some people can do well with them, but that's primarily due to their opponent not being used to facing one." That's a great example of a massive assumption. Again, I suppose I could say the same about EVERY ship in the game.

As much I appreciate MJ's number crunching on math wing I don't use it as the sole judgement value for how good or bad a ship is because anyone will tell you a good game has intangible variables. Even Maj Juggler will admit that he isn't too sure about the value of the white K-turn in the jousting calculation. Besides when it comes to math, statistics in my opinion have always been and always will be a dirty dirty liar.

CURSE YOU 1.5 AVERAGE DICE RESULTS FOR ONLY GIVING ME 3 HITS OUT OF THREE ROLLS Oh look 3 hits FOR THE OTHER PLAYER you may call it even but I call BS!

However you do have to look at the defender point cost an notice it is high. It is the most expensive small base ship costing more than a quarter of the large base ships which have more health. And yes it is a Tie bomber with 50% shields and all 3 stats is nothing to sneeze at but is each stat line worth 10 points?

And Yes I have seen some nice tricks with the white K essentially doing a Uturn with the barrel roll to get straight behind someone but I also have seen the red 1 and 2 turns work against it as I was able to ion and stack 2 stress on a defender as it heads for the edge of the table. When it finally shook off the ion blasts from a Y-wing behind it it needed to do a 2 turn to avoid hitting the edge and with 2 stress tokens it left the game.

I like to think of it as the (Beleaguered) B-Wing, for The Empire.

The Rebs put extra goodies on theirs and make it a badass ship.

The Imps make theirs badass too, but without the extra goodies that make it easier work at full capacity and thus keep it alive long enough to make a real enduring mark on the enemy.

Here at Boss Central we fixed it with Quad Blaster Links tied into an Advanced Targeting Computer. There are also some titles for 'em, so in my crazy Epic games Defenders are, well... Badass-Emperial B-Wings... kinda.

and most useful turns are red

If you think that it's because you're flying it like an Interceptor++.

That's a common self-delusion. You do not fly a ship as you desire. Saying that you fly it 'better' because you fly it a like a bomber is a delusion. You fly a ship as its dial allows you, not viceversa. Flying better or worse is choosing the appropiate maneuver from the ones you have available, according to the battlefield status.

And the Defender can perform all the maneuvers that a interceptor can, so it CAN fly like an interceptor. But it is deliberately punished for doing so, so it's one of its built-in drawbacks.

The lack of green (only straights), makes it vulnerable to stress (rebel captive, which is present in about 50% of imperial builds, becomes a real pain). There are a lot more options to apply ion and stress now too, so that plays against it.

Don't take me wrong, it's a fun ship and I would like it to remain unique. Then again, there are precious few things that I can do with a Tie Defender that I cannot do better with a Phantom or Interceptor (especially now that autothrusters are here).

Soontir would like to have a word with you about tokens.

On a single dice ship. Soontir gets both.

Lets see im takeing a look at the dial for it now verses a few of the others i have on hand and am seeing that it has the same amunt of greend moves of every ship except for the bomber,and interceptor. And stress who cares it's k turn is white so who cares much for stress,

I'd love to see all these bleating and whining about the TIE Defender's 1-turn being red fly a ship which doesn't actually have a one-turn in the first place.

.You know, like the E-Wing, X-Wing, Y-Wing, TIE Bomber, TIE Advanced...

If you can't get where you want to be with a three turn, banks and the barrel roll action, then you should probably look at flying something a little bit more your level. You know, like a YT-2400.

Don't take me wrong, it's a fun ship and I would like it to remain unique. Then again, there are precious few things that I can do with a Tie Defender that I cannot do better with a Phantom or Interceptor (especially now that autothrusters are here).

You can ion people with an Interceptor or Phantom?

I do love me some TIE Defenders!

Here at Boss Central we fixed it with Quad Blaster Links tied into an Advanced Targeting Computer. There are also some titles for 'em, so in my crazy Epic games Defenders are, well... Badass-Emperial B-Wings... kinda.

Off the top of my head, I'm having trouble thinking of a worse idea than allowing Advanced Targeting Computer on ships other than the TIE Advanced.

Off the top of my head, I'm having trouble thinking of a worse idea than allowing Advanced Targeting Computer on ships other than the TIE Advanced.

It's up there with the Outrider title being used on anything with a cannon slot (whatever happened to "titles on everyfink" thread, anyway?)

Don't take me wrong, it's a fun ship and I would like it to remain unique. Then again, there are precious few things that I can do with a Tie Defender that I cannot do better with a Phantom or Interceptor (especially now that autothrusters are here).

You can ion people with an Interceptor or Phantom?

No, hence why I used the expression "precious few" in my post. As for a Tie Defender equipped with an ion cannon, if I want to build a squad that does this then I'll use IG-88 (won many tournaments with them and ion cannons).

So again, it's not that the Tie Defender is not a fun ship, it's just that for every role that I would use it for, I have another option that works better with the way that I fly.

I'd love to see all these bleating and whining about the TIE Defender's 1-turn being red fly a ship which doesn't actually have a one-turn in the first place.

.You know, like the E-Wing, X-Wing, Y-Wing, TIE Bomber, TIE Advanced...

If you can't get where you want to be with a three turn, banks and the barrel roll action, then you should probably look at flying something a little bit more your level. You know, like a YT-2400.

Not having the option is different than having the option, but getting punished for using it.

Here at Boss Central we fixed it with Quad Blaster Links tied into an Advanced Targeting Computer. There are also some titles for 'em, so in my crazy Epic games Defenders are, well... Badass-Emperial B-Wings... kinda.

Off the top of my head, I'm having trouble thinking of a worse idea than allowing Advanced Targeting Computer on ships other than the TIE Advanced.

With the exception of Glorious B-Wings, the all Mighty TIE Defender has the most guns on it that alone means it should do more damage than any other Small Ship.

See how easy it is to fix the handful of FFG screw-ups?

Here at Boss Central we fixed it with Quad Blaster Links tied into an Advanced Targeting Computer. There are also some titles for 'em, so in my crazy Epic games Defenders are, well... Badass-Emperial B-Wings... kinda.

Off the top of my head, I'm having trouble thinking of a worse idea than allowing Advanced Targeting Computer on ships other than the TIE Advanced.

With the exception of Glorious B-Wings, the all Mighty TIE Defender has the most guns on it that alone means it should do more damage than any other Small Ship.

I agree that the damage output of the Defender should be increased. I honestly think a title that allows it to fire both it's primary and a cannon (like the new Y-wing title) is the answer.

That's a common self-delusion. You do not fly a ship as you desire. Saying that you fly it 'better' because you fly it a like a bomber is a delusion. You fly a ship as its dial allows you, not viceversa. Flying better or worse is choosing the appropiate maneuver from the ones you have available, according to the battlefield status.

And the Defender can perform all the maneuvers that a interceptor can, so it CAN fly like an interceptor. But it is deliberately punished for doing so, so it's one of its built-in drawbacks.

Does the ship fly itself? If not, you've got a choice of how to fly it. The dial does not dictate your maneveur, it gives you options. You have options, and its your choice which options you take. Which options do I take? The ones, as you put it, that "I desire."

There is rarely a single "optimum maneuver", there are multiple viable options. Even when one maneuver seems blindlingly obvious it's a bad choice because the opponent will anticipate it. As I said, the white K-turn's advantage is not its use but its existence. The Defender could whip around like that at any moment, and the opponent has to be ready for that. It's like Palob: he's still doing his job even if his ability never triggers.

As for the Defender being able to fly like an interceptor, it can't pull all the maneuvers an Interceptor can because colour is an integral part of a maneuver. The interceptor pulls the sharp turn then boost/barrels from there to the optimum position. The 2's green so it can do this over and over and over. The defender just sits there with a stress token looking sorry for itself. The 1-turn or 2-turn is a good option for the TIE interceptor but given the colour of the maneuver and the rest of its dial

However, where it lacks in the dogfight it can handle engage/disengage k-turn pretty well. Try playing that game over and over with a TIE interceptor and you'll get a load of stress tokens and a laser bolt through your ball cockpit.

Again, if you're taking those red turns and dying to stress then those turns are not "the appropriate maneuver." They're a bad choice. They're there, but their value is almost surprise only. The Defender is much better off banking or 3-turning out of that situation and k-turning around than losing its action this turn and either losing it again or being forced into a disasterous straight the next.

One thing I will say though is I do agree they saddled it with a bit too much weakness for its strength. It's underrated by a long way but that doesn't make the criticisms of the ship any less valid. Personally, I think that the TIE defender would have been so much better with a white Segnor than a white Koiogran. Tetran Cowall's ability would be great on a Defender.

However, the great thing about ships being a little weaker rather than ostensibly too strong is you can always power them up.

I honestly think a title that allows it to fire both it's primary and a cannon (like the new Y-wing title) is the answer.

Two attacks every turn? Against a Decimator, that's effectively the game's first seven dice ship (various fragile rebel combos nonwithstanding), and splitting it over two agility rolls doesn't hamper it that much when you're throwing that much firepower around.

BTL-A4 works on the Y-wing because the Y-wing primary attack is a 2 dice attack and because BTL-A4 is not a free upgrade. You don't pay for it on the card itself, the cost comes from the turret. Turrets pay extra for that 360 arc and your forward only turret costs exactly the same as a 360 one.

I think things would be very different if they gave the Phantom 3 red dice and the Defender 4. I would like that game much better.

Here at Boss Central we fixed it with Quad Blaster Links tied into an Advanced Targeting Computer. There are also some titles for 'em, so in my crazy Epic games Defenders are, well... Badass-Emperial B-Wings... kinda.

Off the top of my head, I'm having trouble thinking of a worse idea than allowing Advanced Targeting Computer on ships other than the TIE Advanced.

With the exception of Glorious B-Wings, the all Mighty TIE Defender has the most guns on it that alone means it should do more damage than any other Small Ship.

See how easy it is to fix the handful of FFG screw-ups?

You mean "almighty", not All Mighty, and it has four laser cannons--just like an X-wing or TIE interceptor.

Mechanically, if you want more damage, you're free to equip a cannon. Stone37's idea isn't a bad one, either, although I might quibble with the implementation. But the Advanced Targeting computer was designed as a patch for a ship that was woefully underpowered on the offense side. The Defender didn't start in the same place--it's underpowered, but to a lesser extent and for different reasons--so granting it access to that particular upgrade is a serious threat to game balance.

I think things would be very different if they gave the Phantom 3 red dice and the Defender 4. I would like that game much better.

Then the phantom wouldd either kill the interceptor off or the interceptor would kill it off.

Four dice defender's an interesting proposition but you can already do it, it just costs you seven points.