Not everything needs boost...that's THE most common "fix" I see around here...pay for the engine upgrade if it needs it so badly. I say this as someone who has taken a defender list to my last 4 game sessions (I play everyother week) and considers them to be his all time favorite star wars ship. I am not saying it's not Fluffy...but if we give everything in the game boost it ceases to be special and becomes a standard action...

That being said I don't mind all the crap that is said about the defender...it's that much more likely my opponent will underestimate it...and that can be an advantage in and of itself.

The only thing I can see the Defender needing besides more pilots is the boost action. It would be nice if an Imperial Aces pack would give the Defender the boost action through a title for 0 cost. Maybe as a down side of a free boost would be to remove the missile slot. It should already have it based on how fast the ship is. This would also allow it to have Auto Thrusters and the high cost of the ship would make more sense then.

oh god, auto-thruster defenders

*drooool*

I haven't read any of the past 10 pages, but the answer is fairly obvious to me: the Defender is built completely @$$ backwards. You get a white K-turn, but you pay for it with normal turns being red. It throws off the whole jousting paradigm, and it's not unlike playing against a lefty in any number of sports. That's not to say it's bad, just that most people aren't willing to put in the effort to make it playable, let alone meta defining.

I don't say this often, but well-spoken, WonderWAAAGH!

No, not everything needs the boost action but it makes sense on a super fast ship that cost a lot of points for a 1PS and only has three actions on its bar. It always felt like a typo and they forgot to add a 4th action to its bar for the price paid. If this is a ship that's so freaky fast that making any hard turns causes stress...yeah it should have boost as a native action.

Wow. This conversation continues and is just as tiresome as before. ****. Learn to fly people.

Defender rocks. If you can't see the value in its frame the. You're no better than Robert E. Lee (rest in peace) commanding Pickett to charge the center at Gettysburg. As we say in the infantry, "adapt and overcome."

Remember the mystery evade token? I think it was originally intended to have another action.

What I think is funny is that no one is saying that the Defender sucks, just that it's overpriced and that the named pilots have abilities that can be difficult to use if you don't build a list around them.

Exactly. One on one with no point considerations it is probably the strongest small base ship.

"4K All Day!"

Rexler + HLC + Lone Wolf + Stealth Device/Hull Upgrade is currently my favorite ship to fly. Not a lot of people in my playgroup know how to fight a Defender, with the exception of those who've flown it as extensively as I have.

I want to know how triple Bounty Hunter vs. triple PS3 Defender would turn out, because if the maneuverability and agility can keep up with the efficiency and rear arc of a Firespray, then I would no longer be on the "Defender is overpriced" train any more. I already think the points are right where there at, I mean, I wouldn't complain if they reduced the cost by a single point, but putting a Defender at 25 points would be nuts. If anything, the generics should've been PS 2-4 or 3-5 just on their eliteness alone.

I understand that fixing it or not is still debatable, either way I'm pretty happy with this ship. I even bought a 3rd one so I can try out 3D lists.

"4K All Day!" If anything, the generics should've been PS 2-4 or 3-5 just on their eliteness alone.

The idea of PS1 for the generic was to move first and NOT get blocked when executing a K-Turn.

I learnt to appreciate this when flying one of my favorite lists "Jonus Brothers": 2x HLC Deltas & Jonus. This puts so much firepower on the table, it's amazing: 2x HLC shots with Focus and two Rerolls. Luckily, Jonus in his Tie Bomber has a 5 K-Turn, so you can park him behind the deltas when doing the first k-turn so he doesnt get blocked at PS6

OK, I'm skipping ahead from page 9.

What's so bad about its dial? It has all the banks, all the turns, OK so turns 1 and 2 and red, but a lot of ships don't even have turn 1. And what's more, doing a reasonably long 4k stands a good chance of keeping your opponent in arc anyway, which removes some of the need for turns. Number of greens doesn't matter if you're never doing red. It's fast, so it can easily zoom away and come back at you if it needs to, and it won't be stressed when it does.

What's the deal?

The deal is that stress delivery is very prominent in the current meta.

Rebel Captive, Tactician, Flechettes and whatnot.

Panic Attack builds are quite common and work very well. (B+tactician/ion Y-wing with stressdroid)

And an expensive ship ship stressed means no action means less effectiveness which is very bad if said ship is one-third of your points. (or more)

No White Hard Turn-1 or-2, No Forward-1.

The deal is that stress delivery is very prominent in the current meta.

Rebel Captive, Tactician, Flechettes and whatnot.

Panic Attack builds are quite common and work very well. (B+tactician/ion Y-wing with stressdroid)

And an expensive ship ship stressed means no action means less effectiveness which is very bad if said ship is one-third of your points. (or more)

Yeah, but that's a problem for any ship. Yes, this ship will have a harder time shedding stress than most, but it's also less inclined to take stress itself than most, which is the other cost of being stressed by your opponent, so it would seem to balance out.

The combined fact of a Defender being expensive (points) ánd a having a harder time than most ships shedding stress seems to be not balanced in a way anyone has been able to figure out thus far.

No White Hard Turn-1 or-2, No Forward-1.

There is only one TIE craft in the game with a Forward 1, which is the TIE bomber. Are all the other TIEs awful for lack of it? Speaking of the TIE bomber, it has a 1 forward but a worse turning setup than the TIE defender, red two, white 3, no 1 at all.

If you're crippled by the lack of those two maneuvers you're trying to fly it like an X-wing or a TIE interceptor.

The guy who is arguably one of the most competent defender players in the game took it to World's. Did not make the cut.

I don't even play in tournaments so i think you may be confused there mate.

The combined fact of a Defender being expensive (points) ánd a having a harder time than most ships shedding stress seems to be not balanced in a way anyone has been able to figure out thus far.

Except the Defender doesn't have a problem shedding stress. It just does it in a different direction than most other ships.

If your opponent is far away, 2 straight and you're fine. If you opponent is really close either 4k behind and shed stress next turn or 5 straight out of there for the next pass.

Or, since Defenders LOVE shuttle support anyway, bring Yorr & never worry about stress again.

Oh and not to mention Vessery who doesn't care about stress most of the time.

Just because a ship handles things differently from other ships doesn't make it bad.

The combined fact of a Defender being expensive (points) ánd a having a harder time than most ships shedding stress seems to be not balanced in a way anyone has been able to figure out thus far.

Except the Defender doesn't have a problem shedding stress. It just does it in a different direction than most other ships.

If your opponent is far away, 2 straight and you're fine. If you opponent is really close either 4k behind and shed stress next turn or 5 straight out of there for the next pass.

Or, since Defenders LOVE shuttle support anyway, bring Yorr & never worry about stress again.

Oh and not to mention Vessery who doesn't care about stress most of the time.

Just because a ship handles things differently from other ships doesn't make it bad.

I never said it was bad (I think) but I sure think no one has been able to figure it out in such a way that it consistently performs well enough to end up winning tournaments.

I *do* think it is too expensive for what it does.

I cannot fit this ship into a 100 point build and make it work.

Might be me though.

The deal is that stress delivery is very prominent in the current meta.

Rebel Captive, Tactician, Flechettes and whatnot.

Panic Attack builds are quite common and work very well. (B+tactician/ion Y-wing with stressdroid)

And an expensive ship ship stressed means no action means less effectiveness which is very bad if said ship is one-third of your points. (or more)

white 4k makes this less of a problem

1 agility on prominent enemy control ships makes them incredibly easy to stres or ionize in retaliation, giving the defender the advantage since it's the only one jousting action or no

being a lover of defenders, b-wings, and now Y-wings, I can say that the rebel (and slightly scummy) ships do not like seeing defenders on the opposite side of the table

Or, since Defenders LOVE shuttle support anyway, bring Yorr & never worry about stress again.

That sentence alone makes clear that you never actually flew Yorr as stress support for fighters.

No White Hard Turn-1 or-2, No Forward-1.

There is only one TIE craft in the game with a Forward 1, which is the TIE bomber. Are all the other TIEs awful for lack of it? Speaking of the TIE bomber, it has a 1 forward but a worse turning setup than the TIE defender, red two, white 3, no 1 at all.

If you're crippled by the lack of those two maneuvers you're trying to fly it like an X-wing or a TIE interceptor.

You are aware that when most of the ships in the game have Hard 2's, Forward 1 (Rebels primarily), etc. and you do not; then you are forced to play a different maneuver game, right?

And FFG gave us one maneuver to compensate (4K white)..

I am not crippled by the lack of maneuvers, the Defender is (as well as the general lack of action economy).

It is supposed to be an advanced, high performance, superiority fighter.

It is none of those.

But it does have a nice stat-line.. for about 1/3rd of your points.

Now - I get where you are coming from, you love the defender (me too!), but blindly defending it when the ship's performance so far has been and still is - lacklustre, well.

*shrug*

Because (and no offense to anybody when I say this) hurt fans wanted a super squint at the cost of a b-wing, and got a defender priced and performing like a defender.

/rant

Seriously it is NOT overcosted. If it was cheaper, it would be overpowered.

The ship is a monster that is underrated because it is playing in a meta where people think that 30 points is the most you can sink on a small ship.

Please continue to play with it, as it is an amazing ship that people refuse to use.

No White Hard Turn-1 or-2, No Forward-1.

There is only one TIE craft in the game with a Forward 1, which is the TIE bomber. Are all the other TIEs awful for lack of it? Speaking of the TIE bomber, it has a 1 forward but a worse turning setup than the TIE defender, red two, white 3, no 1 at all.

If you're crippled by the lack of those two maneuvers you're trying to fly it like an X-wing or a TIE interceptor.

You are aware that when most of the ships in the game have Hard 2's, Forward 1 (Rebels primarily), etc. and you do not; then you are forced to play a different maneuver game, right?

And FFG gave us one maneuver to compensate (4K white)..

I am not crippled by the lack of maneuvers, the Defender is (as well as the general lack of action economy).

It is supposed to be an advanced, high performance, superiority fighter.

It is none of those.

But it does have a nice stat-line.. for about 1/3rd of your points.

Now - I get where you are coming from, you love the defender (me too!), but blindly defending it when the ship's performance so far has been and still is - lacklustre, well.

*shrug*

Blindly defending it??!!! It's been the reason I've won several games. YOU CAN'T MANEUVER IT LIKE A NORMAL SHIP, IT DOESN'T WORK.

I don't know about TP's experiences with it, but I can tell you that it my games, the Defender has been one of the best fighters I've flown.

Blindly defending it??!!! It's been the reason I've won several games. YOU CAN'T MANEUVER IT LIKE A NORMAL SHIP, IT DOESN'T WORK.

I don't know about TP's experiences with it, but I can tell you that it my games, the Defender has been one of the best fighters I've flown.

That is the big deal, many people who have dismissed the Defender prolly just played it a few times and gave it the ever-ready "Meh..." resolution.

The TIE Defender does not jump up at you like the dirty little rat that is the TIE Phantom, which does jump up at you.