So, would you say the TIE Advanced, without the title that gives you a free upgrade - thereby reducing its effective cost - is bad because it's too expensive?

At 30 points, the Delta should have had an EPT slot and/or a higher PS, but it doesn't. If something is too expensive to be consistently viable, doesn't that make it bad?

Its not bad, it was just raised in a rough neighborhood.

Comparatively bad. Yes.

Mostly just failed design. Too expensive.

Not enough features to allow for overcoming the jousting efficiency.

Again. Slight turns green would have made it a viable ptl ship. Less cost too. One more shield. The evade action is noticeably missing because you're typically fielding less ships. Hard 2 white.

Twin linked cannons. Heck. Twin linked cannons for only 3 point or less cannons.

Onyx with EPT.

Heck a red 3 k turn.

Heck vessery at ps 7 would have been a beast: with VI you have an incredible power house. Also vessery doesn't really need an ept to boost his damage so he's free to take VI for ps 9

Since I was hoping they'd be the good guy's answer to the B-wings...am I insane for saying the ship should've had 4-5 shields at its current point cost? IMO the generics are too expensive to bring in numbers, and the name pilots are too fragile for the point investment it takes to make them worthwhile. For the same 40-50 points, an Aggressor or Coran just laughs at the named Defenders. ...overall I think FFG did an amazing job with the last couple waves, but Defenders deserve another look.

Consensus seems to be that a Defender is not *bad*, just a bit expensive for what it offers.

Agreed. At 30 points, it should have a turret or some other ability. If the Delta was 25 point, this thread wouldn't even exist. 4 Deltas would be a fearsome squad.

So much Yes.

Since I was hoping they'd be the good guy's answer to the B-wings...am I insane for saying the ship should've had 4-5 shields at its current point cost? IMO the generics are too expensive to bring in numbers, and the name pilots are too fragile for the point investment it takes to make them worthwhile. For the same 40-50 points, an Aggressor or Coran just laughs at the named Defenders. ...overall I think FFG did an amazing job with the last couple waves, but Defenders deserve another look.

Here's to hoping the raider has some cards for the defender as well.

Ehhhhh 24 health and 12 attack dice on 4 3-evade ships is too much. Consider that you can take at most 4 Xwings in a list and it would be best if Delta's were priced at 26 at the lowest.

It would be best if you could run three of them favorably in a list. Instead there's no good reason not to run a trio of vanilla Firesprays instead.

It would be best if you could run three of them favorably in a list. Instead there's no good reason not to run a trio of vanilla Firesprays instead.

Small base?

Yes, that's clearly the single most redeeming quality of the Defender...

Triple Defenders would have the ability to run some control options in terms of cannons. Ion Cannons and Flechette Cannons can fit. Not the greatest of reasons, but it is an option.

I was hoping more for like PS3 Defenders with an EPT slot for the same price as the Delta. 3x Defenders with relevant upgrades in a 100 point list would have given us a viable alternative to triple Firesprays, and, in my opinion, not been terribly overpowered.

30 point PS3 EPT would've been great for 3x Delta + Predator so we can save our focus tokens for D-fence.

30 point PS3 EPT would've been great for 3x Delta + Predator so we can save our focus tokens for D-fence.

Right? The Defender is actually a great ship, when you can actually field a few without sabotaging the rest of your list. It's as much a problem for the high PS Defenders as the low PS ones. Brath has a really cool ability that makes you want to upgrade the hell out of him to abuse it, but what you really end up with is a massive point trap.

30 point PS3 EPT would've been great for 3x Delta + Predator so we can save our focus tokens for D-fence.

Right? The Defender is actually a great ship, when you can actually field a few without sabotaging the rest of your list. It's as much a problem for the high PS Defenders as the low PS ones. Brath has a really cool ability that makes you want to upgrade the hell out of him to abuse it, but what you really end up with is a massive point trap.

See, Rexlar doesn't really need much. Toss Predator on, and he is good to go. The HLC in general is a dangerous temptation.

There's that, and EU. The temptation is precisely what makes it a point trap.

whats the best list anyone has seen that runs Rexler? he is expensive but could be deadly in the right list.

I'm just confused and saddened that a StarViper generic with all of its options and stats is 25 while the Defender is more limited at 30 points. The white K is good, and I've accepted the points cost, but **** it would be fun to field 4 Defenders, or have room left on Rexler to slap on some upgrades, or just having an EPT and slightly higher PS for fighting B-Wings for the cost of 30 points.

I concede to the fact that they are overcosted. But it won't stop me from playing them.

whats the best list anyone has seen that runs Rexler? he is expensive but could be deadly in the right list.

Rex w/ predator

Howl w/ swarm tactics

Backstabber

Academy x2

whats the best list anyone has seen that runs Rexler? he is expensive but could be deadly in the right list.

Rex w/ predator

Howl w/ swarm tactics

Backstabber

Academy x2

That was your list, right? How did you end up on Saturday?

whats the best list anyone has seen that runs Rexler? he is expensive but could be deadly in the right list.

Rex w/ predator

Howl w/ swarm tactics

Backstabber

Academy x2

That was your list, right? How did you end up on Saturday?

Sorry you didn't get your range ruler!

Lol, no worries. I'll get one eventually. I kind of have a range ruler collection already. Just want to build a Lincoln log house out of them...

I'm just confused and saddened that a StarViper generic with all of its options and stats is 25 while the Defender is more limited at 30 points. The white K is good, and I've accepted the points cost, but **** it would be fun to field 4 Defenders, or have room left on Rexler to slap on some upgrades, or just having an EPT and slightly higher PS for fighting B-Wings for the cost of 30 points.

I concede to the fact that they are overcosted. But it won't stop me from playing them.

Bingo. I was just about to mention the base Starviper. The PS on the Delta is not the problem, it's the cost. The base Starviper proves this. The Starviper is a great blockers, hits hard, and only takes up a quarter of a list's points. It is comparable to the Defender, only better because it's 5 points cheaper.