When your defenders repeatedly use movement that isn't on their dial it helps.

What do you mean?

His dream scenario of why defenders are good only worked because his opponent forgot how to fly. Defenders don't have a native 1 straight, and had his opponent understood where 42 would have ended up he'd have picked differently.

Ironically this is my biggest problem with defenders (which I love and have played from the beginning in spite of it) is that if my opponent doesn't make any mistakes then there's no way to win.

Well, besides hot dice.

Can you not see that the Defender had an Ion token? There was a whole conversation about it above.

When your defenders repeatedly use movement that isn't on their dial it helps.

What do you mean?

His dream scenario of why defenders are good only worked because his opponent forgot how to fly. Defenders don't have a native 1 straight, and had his opponent understood where 42 would have ended up he'd have picked differently.

Ironically this is my biggest problem with defenders (which I love and have played from the beginning in spite of it) is that if my opponent doesn't make any mistakes then there's no way to win.

Well, besides hot dice.

That's a terribad line of thinking and very much incorrect...since when did the defender become worse than a pre fix adv?

The hyperbole in this statement (and so many others) is mind boggling...but to be fair if your opponent makes NO Mistakes and you do your chances of winning are pretty bad regardless of what you take...this isn't a defender specific problem.

People are talking about this ship as though it is unplayable and taking it equals a guaranteed loss...we all know this isn't the case...I can tell you all one thing about this contemptuous attitude though...if your opponent feels this way and you know what you are doing, it's something to be taken advantage of...

*reads thread, shakes head at some of the vitriol exchanged*

I've played the Defender quite a bit recently (and yes, it was only after the requisite twenty combat missions in Interceptors ), and I do think it's a little sub-par, but not to the degree of pre-fix A-Wing/TIE Adv./Y-Wing/TIE Bomber. It actually reminds me a bit of where the Interceptor was pre-Aces - two completely different ships, yes, but solid with a couple weaknesses, and requiring a good pilot to make the most of them (within their limits, of course). I'd like to see an Aces pack with a couple more Defender jockeys and a minor upgrade or two...

Back to the topic at hand, I've had some success pairing the Defender up with a pair of PTL Interceptors (Rexler/Carnor/Royal Guard, in case you're wondering), as they somewhat cover each other's maneuvering weaknesses. The Interceptors loathe K-Turning, where the Defender loves it. If an opponent tries to take advantage of that and get behind an Interceptor, then it opens them up to shots from the Defender, and if they try to play with the Defender, then it lets the Interceptors get clear and swing around for another pass.

I'm pretty interested to hear how that works for you in general. When I've tried to do that, the different ways the interceptors and Defender fly has left part of my list against all of my opponent's list too many times. The only real success I've had is the limited number of times I've paired a souped up Soontir Fel up with Rexler Brath, but Fel's pretty special.

I remember seeing somewhere that one of the designers mentioned that they were unable to get the rules for tractor beams worked out in a way that would work for the game.

I wonder if they had intended those rules for the Defender? It would fit thematically, as would incorporating an ion effect into their regular attack or having a way to regenerate shields.

While I'm one of the first to claim the Defender isn't half as bad as many would have one believe, it does feel like it's missing something. I don't think many want it to become the Mary Sue fighter it was in the video games but it would be cool, if there were to be an eventual fix, if that fix were to take the form of a title that gave a unique mechanic to the Defender based on one of the defining qualities it possessed in the old games that it currently lacks in FFG's X-Wing.

I don't think many want it to become the Mary Sue fighter it was in the video games...

I was thinking about how the defender in this game lines up with the video game, and i think its actually not bad (minus the red 2 turn). In Tie Fighter you hop in a defender and can smoke any ship out there one on one easily. In this game, if you put a naked generic defender on the table against almost any other naked generic ship, it will win one on one.

FFG has done an amazing job at balancing the game point for point, and while the defender is balanced at 30 points, it starts to have "limited" use in squad interaction.

The only problem I can pick out is that IG-88C has only a 3-K-turn, and I'm not sure it would clear.

EDIT: Nevermind.

I don't think many want it to become the Mary Sue fighter it was in the video games...

I was thinking about how the defender in this game lines up with the video game, and i think its actually not bad (minus the red 2 turn). In Tie Fighter you hop in a defender and can smoke any ship out there one on one easily. In this game, if you put a naked generic defender on the table against almost any other naked generic ship, it will win one on one.

FFG has done an amazing job at balancing the game point for point, and while the defender is balanced at 30 points, it starts to have "limited" use in squad interaction.

Defenders can tango with terrors but I'd take two over a bloated non-vessery any day. Two defenders are scary inbtendem, and the reason they take aggressors apart is because their dials let you engineer 2v1s quite easily against the almost too fast ships.

Just watch out for outmaneuver + hlc + gunner B + FCS variants because they will ruinnyour ass (and the asses of every other ship ever).

Alright! This is where I think the thread gets interesting. People are starting to share some experiences, and I think those of us interested in flying the TIE defender can learn from each other. With that in mind, I wanted to share a small section of a game I played last night. My squad:

3x Delta Squadron Pilot (Ion Cannon)

Up against

IG-88B (Ion Cannon, Autoblasters, Accuracy Correctors, Inertial Dampeners, Autothrusters, IG-2000)

IG-88C (Ion Cannon, Autoblasters, Accuracy Correctors, Inertial Dampeners, Autothrusters, IG-2000)

Incidentally, looking at that diagram, I would dial in a 1 left bank with IG88C. I know, monday morning quarterback...

In tight quarter like that you pretty much have to assume that both ships are getting blocked, so it's a question of what is better for:

1) ensuring that you have a shot on something (if you bump your only target that's bad)

2) each ship has a good line for next round

Banking there gives 88C an unblockable 4K escape route next turn, with guns on target. More importantly, he may have a shot on either 42 or 9, depending what 42 does. In this case you move B up first, and C either clears or bumps B, but I don't think he can bump 9, and will be guaranteed to get a shot on him.

Awesome! This the kind of thing I was hoping to hear. Although, it would be nice if you had advice about the defender. The only problem I can pick out is that IG-88C has only a 3-K-turn, and I'm not sure it would clear. The onus would be on IG-88B to move first to get out of the way, if he could. He'd probably make it with so many green options on his dial.

To be fair, a 1-bank on C would have left it taking range 1 shots from 2 Defenders in the above scenario, whole only being able to target the less damaged one. I'm not saying there aren't advantages to the 1-bank, but I can see the logic.

Good call. Man, I kind of wish he did go for the 1 bank

In a furball, my general philosophy is to first make sure everyone gets a shot, then focus fire if possible, and then set up positioning for the next turn.

Ah, I didn't realize that that is the edge of the board, so C may not have room to 4K the next turn. It depends where he lands up and if he bumps. A 4K on a large ship needs 6 movement to clear, but if you are on a 45 degree diagonal (i.e. did not bump) this only translates to 4.25 vertical space needed. Range 2 (asteroid) is 5, so as long as you are above the rock you are OK by 0.75. Conversely, if the furthest point is below the rock by more than 0.75, then you can't K turn. Or if you bumped and your angle is too shallow, then you also can't K-turn. For this turn, the 1 bank would almost certainly clear by the looks of it, if you dialed in a 3 straight on defender 9. So, 1 bank then evade as the action. 2 auto damage on D9.

88B really doesn't have any good choices. I think he is stuck with bumping defender 9, but he can at least get a pot shot on 37. If he gets really lucky then it will be in R1 and get gets 2 auto damage, although in your case it looks like he was just out of range. Trying to 4K-turn or 3 segnor's in these is suicide, you're very likely going to go forward a little and then bump, and now have a stress for your troubles. So I would 1 forward with him and expect to get blocked.

OK, Defenders' point of view, lets see. You obviously have the best move for 42 dialed in there, there is no way he can get a shot at it unless 88B tries something crazy like a 1LT with bumping shenanigans into C, which he won't do. And if 88C banks instead of straight, then 88C gets a shot, but so does D42. Overall that is a slight win for the 88 squad with their unavoidable 2 damage at R1, but it is the best you can do. So I like 42's BR fwd left.

37 and 9 are tricky. You want to prevent the 88's from getting any shots if possible but you can only do that with some bumping and some luck on what the 88's do. If you want to make sure to block the 4K/3 segnor's right, then 37 is locked into a 3LT. So what you did there is the safe bet and is fine. Sadly he will not get a shot unless 88B segnor's right -and- manages to clear.

There is also no obvious choice for defender 9 either. What you did is fine and guarantees that 88B doesn't get a range 1 insta-2-damage shot on anyone, although being able to plan that with your eyeballs before moving the pieces around would be impressive. Another option on 9D is to just go 2 forward. Either way 9 will get a shot on 88B no matter what. But you're now playing a game of chicken with 88B: if 88B tries to segnor's or 4K, then he bumps 37 instead, and completely loses his shot completely. This would be a fantastic result for you. If 88B goes 1 forward instead, then he might just barely clear 9 and have a R1 shot on 37, or he might bump into 9 anyway. I think a 1FWD as drawn would just grab 9's left nub, making 2fwd on 9 the best move no matter what, but again, you can't ensure that by eyeballing most likely, so it is a calculated risk. In this particular instance, since 88B attempted to 4K, a 2 forward on 9 would have put you in a very strong position, since 88B would be facing the wrong way for 1 or 2 more turns. For the immediate turn, he would have zero shots on you, but your 9 would get a free R1 focused shot on B, or a range 2 focused shot on C. (your choice)

Part of it is knowing who you are playing against. Having played about 20 games with 88's, I will tell you that I am very unlikely to take a segnors or Kturn in close quarters, because getting stressed and aiming the wrong way can (and has) cost me at least 1 game. But if your opponent doesn't have as much experience with 88's and/or flies them much more aggressively, then you can punish his mistakes.

When your defenders repeatedly use movement that isn't on their dial it helps.

What do you mean?

His dream scenario of why defenders are good only worked because his opponent forgot how to fly. Defenders don't have a native 1 straight, and had his opponent understood where 42 would have ended up he'd have picked differently.

Ironically this is my biggest problem with defenders (which I love and have played from the beginning in spite of it) is that if my opponent doesn't make any mistakes then there's no way to win.

Well, besides hot dice.

Can you not see that the Defender had an Ion token? There was a whole conversation about it above.

When your defenders repeatedly use movement that isn't on their dial it helps.

What do you mean?

His dream scenario of why defenders are good only worked because his opponent forgot how to fly. Defenders don't have a native 1 straight, and had his opponent understood where 42 would have ended up he'd have picked differently.

Ironically this is my biggest problem with defenders (which I love and have played from the beginning in spite of it) is that if my opponent doesn't make any mistakes then there's no way to win.

Well, besides hot dice.

That's a terribad line of thinking and very much incorrect...since when did the defender become worse than a pre fix adv?

The hyperbole in this statement (and so many others) is mind boggling...but to be fair if your opponent makes NO Mistakes and you do your chances of winning are pretty bad regardless of what you take...this isn't a defender specific problem.

People are talking about this ship as though it is unplayable and taking it equals a guaranteed loss...we all know this isn't the case...I can tell you all one thing about this contemptuous attitude though...if your opponent feels this way and you know what you are doing, it's something to be taken advantage of...

Not today, however.

When your defenders repeatedly use movement that isn't on their dial it helps.

What do you mean?

His dream scenario of why defenders are good only worked because his opponent forgot how to fly. Defenders don't have a native 1 straight, and had his opponent understood where 42 would have ended up he'd have picked differently.

Ironically this is my biggest problem with defenders (which I love and have played from the beginning in spite of it) is that if my opponent doesn't make any mistakes then there's no way to win.

Well, besides hot dice.

Can you not see that the Defender had an Ion token? There was a whole conversation about it above.

Can you not see that an ion'd defender is a corner case that can't be relied on to occur? You don't build your list saying "well, I don't have the one straight, so ill just have to make sure they ion me she I want to do it"

I am completely failing to understand what point you're trying to make, then. The 1 straight isn't a good thing in this case. The whole point of the original post is that the player used a hard 1 to block shots to his almost dead ship as an example of when he found the option useful. If the damaged Defender wasn't ioned, other options are available for keeping it alive.

When your defenders repeatedly use movement that isn't on their dial it helps.

What do you mean?

His dream scenario of why defenders are good only worked because his opponent forgot how to fly. Defenders don't have a native 1 straight, and had his opponent understood where 42 would have ended up he'd have picked differently.

Ironically this is my biggest problem with defenders (which I love and have played from the beginning in spite of it) is that if my opponent doesn't make any mistakes then there's no way to win.

Well, besides hot dice.

Can you not see that the Defender had an Ion token? There was a whole conversation about it above.

Can you not see that an ion'd defender is a corner case that can't be relied on to occur? You don't build your list saying "well, I don't have the one straight, so ill just have to make sure they ion me she I want to do it"

Where does he infer he was depending on it...he simply stated it happened and was reacting to it, or at least that's how I read it. Someone told him a defender can't move 1 forward he stated the ion forced him to and was able to make a series of well placed moves on the knowledge that one defender was going to move one forward. You are once again making assumptions and not really adding anything constructive here...you seem to stand by your erroneous conclusion that he the defender only did well because his opponent "forgot how to fly."

You claim to have flown the defender extensively...can you not admit it might not fit your flight style? No other ship in the game flys like it and it is, admittedly, difficult to fly. It has access to almost every move in the game barring a straight 1 which based on how I have found it needs to be flown isn't needed. It's not a close range fighter. It fires zooms away, turns around and comes back again. Yes the 4 red manuvers it has can be annoying...but I have yet to be in a situation where I didn't have some other equally viable movement option (or is that my opponents fault for flying into a space where the defender might be able to shoot him? Cause your ships are always going to be doing that in this game.) Stress isn't the end of the world...it can still kturn and it can still shoot...I'll clear that stress when it doesn't cost me a shot. I am not telling you to "fly more gooder n00b/" here. Just acknowledge that some of us may have a better grasp on how to fly it or at least haven't given up and fallen into to terrible "groupthink" mentality that exists around this ship...

If your point simply is "the defender sucks" we get it and we choose to disagree...I'll tell you the same thing I told taste the rainbow (I do love my skittles though...best candy know man). Keep beating your head against the wall and regurgitating the same argument. You aren't going to change our minds...especially when the crux of your argument (and this is yours not rainbows) is "your opponent forgot how to fly."

When your defenders repeatedly use movement that isn't on their dial it helps.

What do you mean?

His dream scenario of why defenders are good only worked because his opponent forgot how to fly. Defenders don't have a native 1 straight, and had his opponent understood where 42 would have ended up he'd have picked differently.

Ironically this is my biggest problem with defenders (which I love and have played from the beginning in spite of it) is that if my opponent doesn't make any mistakes then there's no way to win.

Well, besides hot dice.

That's a terribad line of thinking and very much incorrect...since when did the defender become worse than a pre fix adv?

The hyperbole in this statement (and so many others) is mind boggling...but to be fair if your opponent makes NO Mistakes and you do your chances of winning are pretty bad regardless of what you take...this isn't a defender specific problem.

People are talking about this ship as though it is unplayable and taking it equals a guaranteed loss...we all know this isn't the case...I can tell you all one thing about this contemptuous attitude though...if your opponent feels this way and you know what you are doing, it's something to be taken advantage of...

One day someone will accurately cite my use of hyperbole and then not immediately engage into their own

Not today, however.

You were accurately quoted and I pointed out why I disagree..now are we going to discuss this like adults or are you going to post 2 line snarks from here on out?

When your defenders repeatedly use movement that isn't on their dial it helps.

What do you mean?

His dream scenario of why defenders are good only worked because his opponent forgot how to fly. Defenders don't have a native 1 straight, and had his opponent understood where 42 would have ended up he'd have picked differently.

Ironically this is my biggest problem with defenders (which I love and have played from the beginning in spite of it) is that if my opponent doesn't make any mistakes then there's no way to win.

Well, besides hot dice.

Can you not see that the Defender had an Ion token? There was a whole conversation about it above.

Can you not see that an ion'd defender is a corner case that can't be relied on to occur? You don't build your list saying "well, I don't have the one straight, so ill just have to make sure they ion me she I want to do it"

I am completely failing to understand what point you're trying to make, then. The 1 straight isn't a good thing in this case. The whole point of the original post is that the player used a hard 1 to block shots to his almost dead ship as an example of when he found the option useful. If the damaged Defender wasn't ioned, other options are available for keeping it alive.

If I fly an A-wing against Fat Han and the han player flys off the board, the take away isn't that a wings are better, it's that my opponent made a mistake. Like wise, if I block an opponent when I have no movement options available the take away isn't that my ship was good, but that my opponent was bad.

I don't think I can be convinced

Well, we agree on something.

I don't think I can be convinced

Well, we agree on something.

So it seems...

(words from me from earlier)

I'm pretty interested to hear how that works for you in general. When I've tried to do that, the different ways the interceptors and Defender fly has left part of my list against all of my opponent's list too many times. The only real success I've had is the limited number of times I've paired a souped up Soontir Fel up with Rexler Brath, but Fel's pretty special.

Part of it has to do with my interaction with the rocks (dang, now that word won't cover all of the obstacles...why must you change my terminology, FFG!?! ) - I'll try my hardest to ensure that they are close together and clumped up, and I'll use my superior speed to bring the fight into them. It breaks up formations, causes large ships to think twice, and has a decent chance of giving me more evasion dice. In the opening rounds, I can generally bring all three of my ships to bear on a single target, and shooting at mid-high PS combined with Jax denying defense tokens helps me focus down mid-low PS ships before the maneuvering fight begins. Later, assuming all of my ships are alive, I can generally get shots with an Interceptor+Rexler while my opponent is chasing the other squint and trying to get shots past 3 agility with two tokens.

One of the things that helps is that I tend to be very conservative with my actions with the Interceptors - I will Focus+Evade pretty much all the time, unless I can use Boost to get Carnor into range 1, boost around when my Interceptor is away from the fight, or get a guaranteed arc-dodge. I have noticed a lot of people will boost or barrel roll when it doesn't do them too much good (I'd rather defend against an R1 shot with more tokens than an R2 one with fewer tokens for me), and I think this is a mistake. I rely on my dial for the maneuvering, not my actions. (yes, I know that the thread is about the Defender, not the Interceptor, but the rest of the list matters...and people are more likely to shoot a Defender+Focus rather than a double-token Interceptor...so the list as a whole lives longer because the Defender soaks up so much damage)

Oh, and after flying him for a while, I think that Carnor Jax is more special than Fel. Sure, extra Focus tokens are nice, but denying them to your opponents is downright evil. The one-two punch of Jax and Rexler has maimed or killed many a starfighter for me when the opponent is relying on rolling natural evades.

I remember seeing somewhere that one of the designers mentioned that they were unable to get the rules for tractor beams worked out in a way that would work for the game.

Here's how I'd do it:

Tractor Beam Projector (Modification, or possibly System; TIE Defender Only) At the start of the Activation phase, you may choose an enemy ship at range one. Until the end of the phase, when you reveal your maneuver dial, if the enemy is not in your firing arc, treat your maneuver as a maneuver of the same difficulty with one speed less than revealed (minimum one). Additionally, when the chosen enemy ship reveals its maneuver dial, if the enemy ship is not a Large or Huge ship, it treats its maneuver as a maneuver of the same difficulty with one speed less than revealed (minimum one).

A lot of text, but I think it covers it - an optional ability to latch onto a similarly-sized ship and prevent it from getting away, and the ability to use it to affect your own maneuvers as well (a la Corran Horn in Isard's Revenge). I don't know what an appropriate point cost would be, and I'd be tempted to add in an additional stress for ships whose maneuvers are affected by this.

That an ioned ship was able to block anything should tell you that this wasn't a defender success story but an ig-88 horror story. My point is that this "success" for the defender only exists because of poor play by the opposing player, and when evaluating a ship you shouldn't take into account rare situations where one party messes up.

If I fly an A-wing against Fat Han and the han player flys off the board, the take away isn't that a wings are better, it's that my opponent made a mistake. Like wise, if I block an opponent when I have no movement options available the take away isn't that my ship was good, but that my opponent was bad.

Woah, there. Let's not go pointing figures at bad players vs. good players here. There are a LOT of different levels of players on this forum, and I think your comments may end up doing more harm than good. I think it may be more constructive to say that the IG-2000 player "made a mistake." That's all it was; a mistake. I watched some videos of worlds, and in one particular match, KelvantTiberius got DESTROYED by a teenager. Does that make him a bad player? No! He made a mistake on the approach, and lost a bunch of TIEs for it. It happens.

Second. It's not a TIE Defender success story!!! How many times do I have to say that? It's just an example where the 1-turn is good, and I included the round prior to help set up the situation. I use the 1-turns quite a bit - they are a valuable part of the defender dial.

EDIT: Okay, I was too hot to trot here. You did use the word "mistake" several times, and that is good. I think you need to lay off the "bad player" bit. My brother is just getting back into the game, so yes, he's less experienced than others. What I'm trying to say is that calling new players "bad" is not a very good way to increase the player base

(words from me from earlier)

I'm pretty interested to hear how that works for you in general. When I've tried to do that, the different ways the interceptors and Defender fly has left part of my list against all of my opponent's list too many times. The only real success I've had is the limited number of times I've paired a souped up Soontir Fel up with Rexler Brath, but Fel's pretty special.

Part of it has to do with my interaction with the rocks (dang, now that word won't cover all of the obstacles...why must you change my terminology, FFG!?! ) - I'll try my hardest to ensure that they are close together and clumped up, and I'll use my superior speed to bring the fight into them. It breaks up formations, causes large ships to think twice, and has a decent chance of giving me more evasion dice. In the opening rounds, I can generally bring all three of my ships to bear on a single target, and shooting at mid-high PS combined with Jax denying defense tokens helps me focus down mid-low PS ships before the maneuvering fight begins. Later, assuming all of my ships are alive, I can generally get shots with an Interceptor+Rexler while my opponent is chasing the other squint and trying to get shots past 3 agility with two tokens.

One of the things that helps is that I tend to be very conservative with my actions with the Interceptors - I will Focus+Evade pretty much all the time, unless I can use Boost to get Carnor into range 1, boost around when my Interceptor is away from the fight, or get a guaranteed arc-dodge. I have noticed a lot of people will boost or barrel roll when it doesn't do them too much good (I'd rather defend against an R1 shot with more tokens than an R2 one with fewer tokens for me), and I think this is a mistake. I rely on my dial for the maneuvering, not my actions. (yes, I know that the thread is about the Defender, not the Interceptor, but the rest of the list matters...and people are more likely to shoot a Defender+Focus rather than a double-token Interceptor...so the list as a whole lives longer because the Defender soaks up so much damage)

Oh, and after flying him for a while, I think that Carnor Jax is more special than Fel. Sure, extra Focus tokens are nice, but denying them to your opponents is downright evil. The one-two punch of Jax and Rexler has maimed or killed many a starfighter for me when the opponent is relying on rolling natural evades.

This is interesting, because you're basically describing my exact strategy with the rocks when I play dual Defenders. Maybe I'm not well suited to play Interceptors. Not enough patience.

This is interesting, because you're basically describing my exact strategy with the rocks when I play dual Defenders. Maybe I'm not well suited to play Interceptors. Not enough patience.

My experience with interceptors + lone defender matches yours in that I find the defender often dies early due to focus fire while the interceptors are off to the sides dodging arcs and taking opportunity shots.

I think what Beardface describes is to fly the interceptors more like the defender: if they all stay tight together and the interceptors do not try arc-dodging (but rely on stacked tokens through PtL for survival) and you get them all in close to the enemy where Carnor's ability kicks in, then your shots with 4 dice are backed up by focus whereas your opponent's return fire is effectively tokenless due to Carnor. To me the risk there is getting blocked---if you lose your tokens due to aggressive flying, your interceptors are toast. This is the part where I've always struggled to get the most out of Carnor because he needs to get in close to use his ability, but getting him there without bumping or taking heavy fire tends to be quite difficult and so I end up flying him more cautiously (that's been my experience anyway).

wow this thread is gonna go longer than the Imperial epic thread........

wow this thread is gonna go longer than the Imperial epic thread........

Which goes to show how much people love (or want to love) this ship. The Defender is a lot of fun to fly. I'm looking forward to the Advanced title card and what it will do for Vessery!

wow this thread is gonna go longer than the Imperial epic thread........

Which goes to show how much people love (or want to love) this ship. The Defender is a lot of fun to fly. I'm looking forward to the Advanced title card and what it will do for Vessery!

There are those who in their eyes it can do no wrong, and there are those who in their eyes it can do no right.

wow this thread is gonna go longer than the Imperial epic thread........

Which goes to show how much people love (or want to love) this ship. The Defender is a lot of fun to fly. I'm looking forward to the Advanced title card and what it will do for Vessery!

There are those who in their eyes it can do no wrong, and there are those who in their eyes it can do no right.

nah

I like the Defender and I acknowledge its weaknesses

I won't acknowledge that it having weaknesses somehow makes it not viable for competitive play

The amount of Defenders taken in Store Championships was very low. Only the Bomber and Advanced were taken less often. I didn't see a Defender in the 2 Store Championships I attended with +20 people each.

I actually think you'll see in uptick in Vessery on the table with the Advanced buffs coming in. However, the other 3 pilots will be a rare sight.