hi people i wanted to ask something about the bonus. When you read this: ''Regardless of the source or combined sources, no final bonus can ever exceed +60 and no final penalty can exceed –60. If no modifier is listed when a test is described, the test begins as Challenging (+0).", does this includes the bonus that a level of a skill gives you??, or this bonus are about items, and situation??

example: i have 35 of agility and stealth at +20 (experienced), i use a stummer, sin skin and a camaleonic cloak, my , this should be 35 + 20 + 30 + 10 + 20 ???? with a final of 115???, or this should be 95??

95.

Though you can declare to make the test more difficult for you. Like stealth-dancing with a -20 penalty. That would still make 95.

Skill level isn't a bonus - it's the baseline bonuses are applied to. So your 35 Ag can be modified by a max/min of +/-60 (negatives presumably meaning the test is impossible).

i got this question because on page 96, the modifier that a skills gives you, is always treated like if it were a bonus.

I'd argue that they are.

Page 24:

Regardless of the source or combined sources , no final bonus can ever exceed +60 and no final penalty can exceed –60.
If no modifier is listed when a test is described, the test begins as Challenging (+0).

Page 80:

• Trained (rank 2): The character receives a +10 bonus on all skill tests when using this skill.
• Experienced (rank 3): The character receives a +20 bonus on all skill tests when using this skill. This bonus replaces the
bonus for being Trained.
• Veteran (rank 4): The character receives a +30 bonus to all skill tests when using this skill. This bonus replaces the bonus
for being Experienced in this skill.

Emphasis mine.

Page 94:

Modifiers are applied to take into account any environmental factors, as well as the character’s rank with the applicable skill.

The question I've always has is if test difficulty is also considered a bonus/penalty that is included in a cap.

P. 22

The GM identifies any modifiers that affect the test, both positive and negative. Modifiers reflect the inherent difficulty as well as situational and environmental conditions [...]

They are treated the very same. As for P. 24 the Quote from Keffisch is even in the paragraph Test Difficulty and counts that in. So max +60 with everything.

I consider a test's base difficulty to be the "anchor" for bonuses and penalties, such that a Hellish (-60) Test can, at best, only ever be attempted at +0. Thus, the most desirable boons are those that alter a test's difficulty directly without specifically giving bonuses or penalties.

P. 22 makes it rather clear.

There are 3 Steps for a Test.

1. Pick the characteristic/skill

2. Apply modifiers

3. Roll

Picking the difficulty has no special role here. It is just as important as that +10 on your skill or from an item. A -60 Test can still be rolled with +60 if other bonuses are that potent.

This is RAW.

Opinion: I dislike how a Hellish Test can be negated so "easily" by bonuses. Off the top of my head, [Medicae] is one of the easiest Skills to boost with Gear and such. Rather than sift through which bonuses are incompatible (a task made more difficult when such bonuses can come from immaterial Talents), I choose to limit how much bonuses can help. Open-heart surgery atop a moving train should still be a challenge for the most accomplished chirurgeons (e.g., 60 Intelligence with bonuses up the wazoo). Even if RAW says/suggests the target number should be 120 (60 + 60), 60 (60 + 0) is as high as I will allow. I believe this system better represents not only the most difficult tasks, but the simplest ones as well. An Easy (+30) Test swings between -30 and +90 rather than -60 and +60.

Once you achieved +120 on a test and hence turn a -60 into a +60 you are a representative of thos skilled medics that easily perform heart surgery. That on its own is nothing special in that time where they made flesh/bionic interfaces work perfectly.

Once you achieved +120 on a test and hence turn a -60 into a +60 you are a representative of thos skilled medics that easily perform heart surgery. That on its own is nothing special in that time where they made flesh/bionic interfaces work perfectly.

Opinion: A Herculean task should be a Herculean task. There is still room for human error even with the best education, the most skilled assistants, and the highest quality tools. If penalties can be entirely overturned with sufficient bonuses, characters start rolling for Degrees of Success rather than for success or failure. Imposing a hard ceiling is my answer to such a scenario. Again, this is just my opinion and my ruling as the RAW is not to my tastes. Your mileage may vary.

This game has always been about getting Degrees of Success or Failure. The hard ceiling is already in place (stats +/- 60)

I don't think the system has ever been terribly clear about whether skill bonuses and test difficulties counted in the cap (which was originally +/- 30, not 60). However, I always played it (and from what I have seen on the forums, many other people do too) that skill bonuses and test difficulty do not count. I treat the skill bonuses and difficulty modifers as a modification of the base characteristic.

I've always played it that way too, but the rules are actually pretty clear if you read them - they're referred to as bonuses. It's not exactly intuitive and hadn't even considered it until it was brought up in this thread.

Just did a quick skim through the skill test example boxes in chapter 1 and none of them address rank training (beyond the one that has -20 for untrained). That's the kind of clarity I've come to expect from FFG.

What happens if bonus modifiers take a characteristic over 100? Is 100 simply the hard cap of the game? I know, i know, stupid question

The FAQ was recently updated to say that the Skill level counts as a bonus when counting the limit.

I don't know about you, Red, but I have instituted a 'rolling 100 is an automatic failure regardless of how good you are' rule at my table. Think critical glitching or a botch. I don't make the repercussions too bad, but they're definitely memorable.

i've always deemed a roll of 100 being a failure no matter what, but for example. Say I have a 60 ballistic skill, and I get +60 to my test somehow, does that mean that I test against a skill of 120 for determining degrees of success?

i've always deemed a roll of 100 being a failure no matter what, but for example. Say I have a 60 ballistic skill, and I get +60 to my test somehow, does that mean that I test against a skill of 120 for determining degrees of success?

Yes

I always told my player 99 was the max, since 100 is failure. So their degrees of success can't be counted from over 99. The only way to get more is by having unnatural or other talents that help.

I think FFG game mechanics designers "intended" Player Intent to be mostly successfully when declared...

What this means - by the math - if I want to shoot something more than likely by the math/mechanics given I am going to hit and thusly get my instant gratification on - so to speak, fine...

This of course for alot of us is a departure from other game system mechanics - whereby the intent is more likely to miss in those systems

Here FFG seemingly was like - you intend on hitting a target fine - most of the time YOU WILL HIT (albeit with various modifiers from Gear Bonus to Situational Factors).

This then makes the game one of enduring INTENT by both sides of the table (i.e. how much punishment can the PC's take vs the NPC foes)

The game then becomes more of an exercise in those results and subsequent reactions by the greater world setting around the PCs - repercussions per say

Failure in this case is not the norm but rather an uncommon occurance

The game then becomes one more about decision making rather than that of a random gamble - as are most other Dice based RPG systems

UNDER this pretense - FFG could have easily just made this a DICELESS game of decisions - just saying (not saying what I like BTW)

*Keep in Mind; GM's situational penalties to a roll are "purely" spot on arbitrary - and with a poor quality GM - if they "intend" that you dont hit - guess what - they will devise and tell you all sort of combining factors as a whole will... well make you miss!

Some food for though

Stay GAMING

Morbid