So, I've been burned now multiple times by crits that I landed on my opponent. I know I'm talking about a small percentage of events, but I've had the following all happen to me at various points.

1) Dealt Soontir Fel a Thrust Control Fire, giving him a stress and another focus, which he used on my next shot to stay alive.

2) Dealt Howlrunner w/ Determination an Injured Pilot as her third damage card. Instead of killing her, she remained with 1 hull.

3) Dealt Dash w/ HLC + Outrider a Munitions Failure while Tycho (the only ship left on the board) was at R1. Dash's newly acquired primary weapon killed Tycho.

With <kabooms> becoming more common (looking at you mangler cannon and calculation), and the thought process that crit mitigation things (Savaged Astromech, Determination) will become more prevalent, there will be times where you just want to do a damage, and would prefer it be a face down card instead of a face up card.

I'm wondering if it should be the attackers choice on whether he deals a face up card or a face down card. There are still obviously incentives for wanting to give Dash a face up card, you might get lucky and get a direct hit, but perhaps you have a more maneuverable ship and would prefer to just whittle him down instead of taking the chance on a munitions failure. Same thing with HR w/ Determination... there's only about a 25% of it kicking in, but if she only has 1 hull left, why take a chance? But if she has 2 hull left, now you have to make a decision, 25% no damage, 25% 1 damage and no effect, 25% 1 damage and a negative effect, or 25% 2 damage and death... It makes for a more interesting decision and adds another layer of strategy in my opinion.

What do ya'll think?

Mangler Cannon and Calculation already let you decide to deal a hit instead of a crit.

Mangler Cannon and Calculation already let you decide to deal a hit instead of a crit.

Fair enough. Still doesn't change the root question though, though I suppose at this point it's more of a natural rolled <kaboom> instead of a modified <kaboom>.

The fact that your opponent has had to spend points to achieve crit mitigation, or lost crucial game-winning abilities in all the circumstances you mentioned seems to be penalty enough already.

Have you considered taking it on the chin when you lose a game to be a viable alternative to changing the rules?

Fly Maarek Steele?

I can understand the frustration when something like that happens. I tend to go the other way, and think crits are too often useless (Munitions Failure on a TIE Fighter sort of thing). I don't see those annoying corner cases as being worthy of a rules change.

*snip*

What do ya'll think?

No.

1) Dealt Soontir Fel a Thrust Control Fire, giving him a stress and another focus, which he used on my next shot to stay alive.

2) Dealt Howlrunner w/ Determination an Injured Pilot as her third damage card. Instead of killing her, she remained with 1 hull.

3) Dealt Dash w/ HLC + Outrider a Munitions Failure while Tycho (the only ship left on the board) was at R1. Dash's newly acquired primary weapon killed Tycho.

1) Tends to just delay the inevitable. Soontir would normally have PtL'd, not expecting to take another stress, and will thus be double-stressed and completely helpless on the next turn.

2) Is the entire point of taking Determination. You can't complain about your opponent's cards doing what he's paying them for.

3) Just happens every now and then.

You lost me at "rule change".

Your opponent has paid for the upgrades to do exactly what they're doing. Sometimes it can work against you, sometimes it can work for you.

Your opponent has paid for the upgrades to do exactly what they're doing. Sometimes it can work against you, sometimes it can work for you.

The only instance that an opponent paid for an upgrade, is the 1 point Determination card. And I choose to never deal a face up damage card to Howl in fear that it's going to be a pilot card and discarded, it has done more (on average) than it currently does.

Let me know next time you pay 12 points for HLC+Outrider that you are HAPPY to be a munitions failure crit, or you're happy when Fel gets double stressed. These are not things any player should be happy about.

Your opponent has paid for the upgrades to do exactly what they're doing. Sometimes it can work against you, sometimes it can work for you.

The only instance that an opponent paid for an upgrade, is the 1 point Determination card. And I choose to never deal a face up damage card to Howl in fear that it's going to be a pilot card and discarded, it has done more (on average) than it currently does.

Let me know next time you pay 12 points for HLC+Outrider that you are HAPPY to be a munitions failure crit, or you're happy when Fel gets double stressed. These are not things any player should be happy about.

Your opponent paid for Determination to be able to discard a Pilot card if he gets it. His odds of even getting that card in the first place aren't brilliant; you should not be able to tell him he's not using it at all.

I'm never happy to see Soontir double stressed. The lack of an action the following turn means I'm about to lose a 30+ point ship. The short-term gain of the Focus token is not enough to compensate for that.

And, for the number of times the Munitions Failure on the Outrider happens, it's not worth changing the rules over. Especially since that it's just as likely to happen early in the game and halve the ship's firepower for the rest of the match as it is to happen late when there's only one target left.

I don't want to be rude, but you just sound bitter about being on the rough end of some obscure game situations. They happen. Shrug it off and move on to the next game.

Honestly, the mere fact that this would wreck some upgrades is reason enough to not do it.

Yes it is possible for a crit to do more good for the other guy then harm, but those are fairly rare cases and in two of those cases, the other guy is unarguably worse off after that point, even if they got a small benefit at that time.

Soontir with double stress is in serious trouble, as is a YT-2400 without a cannon.

I'll just say congratulations, you've discovered some of those rare times when the red dice can be just as fickle as the green ones.

A critical hit may have been scored but luck can do mysterious things and you happened on those times where victory may have turned into disaster.

I must be stupid because I don't understand the point being made here at all.

The rules state "When the number of Damage cards dealt to a ship is equal to or greater than its hull value, the ship is immediately destroyed (faceup and facedown cards count toward this total)".

I thought that face up damage cards still counted as "hits", but you just don't get the "effect" of that damage if you have some specific upgrade. Is that not true?

The rules state "When the number of Damage cards dealt to a ship is equal to or greater than its hull value, the ship is immediately destroyed (faceup and facedown cards count toward this total)".

That's only true if no other effect is in place.

In the case of Howlrunner, Determination let you discard the face up damage card before it goes into effect. So that 3rd damage card never actually gets applied.

The rules state "When the number of Damage cards dealt to a ship is equal to or greater than its hull value, the ship is immediately destroyed (faceup and facedown cards count toward this total)".

That's only true if no other effect is in place.

In the case of Howlrunner, Determination let you discard the face up damage card before it goes into effect. So that 3rd damage card never actually gets applied.

I guess I thought that the effect would be something like "Blinded Pilot", and that's what you ignored. I didn't realize you ignored the damage as well.

The rules state "When the number of Damage cards dealt to a ship is equal to or greater than its hull value, the ship is immediately destroyed (faceup and facedown cards count toward this total)".

That's only true if no other effect is in place.

In the case of Howlrunner, Determination let you discard the face up damage card before it goes into effect. So that 3rd damage card never actually gets applied.

I guess I thought that the effect would be something like "Blinded Pilot", and that's what you ignored. I didn't realize you ignored the damage as well.

Determination instructs you to discard the card.

Well, can't argue with that.

Well, can't argue with that.

Yup, and in the case of Soontir, it gave him a focus token, which was used on the subsequent attack to block enough damage to keep him alive. Yes, he's now double stressed, but I'd rather he not exist at all. He still shoots next round and still takes more shots to kill, both are bad things, and if I wasn't in a position to kill him the following turn, then he can run away and no longer be double stressed and return to the fight. Both that and the HR example I ended up winning the games, so I'm not crying over losing games some 6-12 months in the past.

The YT-2400 thing was just funny. It was a close game throughout, but it ended up being Tycho with 2 hull vs. Dash untouched, and Tycho managed to keep chipping away while always being in the doughnut hole. After like 10 turns of Dash not shooting, we both were of the opinion that it was just a matter of time before Tycho pulled off the win (though I was down on points and would have lost if it ever went to time). But then when that munitions failure card got drawn, all of a sudden he got to shoot at a tokenless Tycho at R1. We were both laughing because his ship was in a better position without those 12 points worth of upgrades than it was with them.

<snip>

I'm wondering if it should be the attackers choice on whether he deals a face up card or a face down card. There are still obviously incentives for wanting to give Dash a face up card, you might get lucky and get a direct hit, but perhaps you have a more maneuverable ship and would prefer to just whittle him down instead of taking the chance on a munitions failure. Same thing with HR w/ Determination... there's only about a 25% of it kicking in, but if she only has 1 hull left, why take a chance? But if she has 2 hull left, now you have to make a decision, 25% no damage, 25% 1 damage and no effect, 25% 1 damage and a negative effect, or 25% 2 damage and death... It makes for a more interesting decision and adds another layer of strategy in my opinion.

What do ya'll think?

Now that I'm closer to understanding what happened, I would not want any change in the way it is now. I like to think of the "crit" as more of a "random effect". Typically, if you're the attacker, you like getting a "crit". But, since it's random, and your opponent has a specific ability that may change things it just makes the "crit" all that more random.