A frigate's squadron battery does a whopping average of 1 damage a round per attack. you only have a %50 chance of dealing damage with a blue dice. Blacks hit far harder, and the fact that you have to save tokens for the Imperial Capital ship barrages mean that most of those bomber salvoes will get through. The first round definitely will. You simply cant catch the bombers in time.

You're also disregarding the fact that ships must shoot, THEN move. Which means you simply place the bombers outside of range 2, wait for the ship to move, then attack it with a squadron command and move away. Your frigate and fighter are going to get kited all over the map. And besides, every point you invest in a-wings are points you didn't invest in the fighters that actually scare my capital ships.

sure, but as an opposing player I can use my own squadron command and have my own fighters move into engagement range, which will lock out your bombers. Even without a squadron command, I can move and not get a shot, but still freeze the bombers from hitting my capital ships.

If I'm seeing a mass of four tie bomber squadrons (or more) with Rhymer, I'm certainly going to keep my fighter screens out in front of my capital ships enough that you won't be able to pull that off. I'd set the screen up to ensure any move to get into range would engage at least one squadron, and then my other squadrons can come help and tie you up further.

The more bomber squadrons you have, the more I can dedicate to screening them. If you start putting points into accompanying them with Howl and Vader, I'll have to be more careful, but the bombers won't be as effective or in as great of a number.

Being force to engage fighters means my fighters will always block your bombers if I keep them at the right distance from my ships while being between yours and mine. At most, you'll get two uncontested shots before my fighters engage and you have to counter them (and future tie bombers will move on a later activation into an engagement zone, thus not getting Rhymer's benefit).

I think the fighter screen game is by far the most interesting and maybe tactical portion of the game, going to be really fun.

Can't wait for you to try that post-release of the Raider, mwahaha. I use squadron commands to close and fire, you engage, I move in with two raiders next turn and clean up your fighters while my ISD keeps your caps off their backs, by turn three-four my bombers are free to make a mess again

There will be no easy plays for either side, just watch.

I mean you are assuming the Raider is going to have some prolific level of Anti-Squadron dice, when it's not likely to be more armed in that regard then the CR-90. Maybe the more expensive variant will get 2 dice instead of one.

This is true, and how effective it will be against fighters compared to its cost is yet to be seen.

Wow, it sure is impressive when you ignore everything else the Rebels will have at their disposal!

True this, which leads to:

Ummm.... sure? Sounds and looks too ideal and that is a Lot of points put into freeing up those bombers. But when you're not in an ideal situation you are going to need to readjust your plans just as much as the Rebel player.

There will be no easy plays for either side, just watch.

Which is one of the things I think I'm going to love about Armada. It looks so far to be very well balanced, which combined with the objectives is going to make it a thinking mans game.

I mean you are assuming the Raider is going to have some prolific level of Anti-Squadron dice, when it's not likely to be more armed in that regard then the CR-90. Maybe the more expensive variant will get 2 dice instead of one.

This is true, and how effective it will be against fighters compared to its cost is yet to be seen.

Wow, it sure is impressive when you ignore everything else the Rebels will have at their disposal!

True this, which leads to:

Ummm.... sure? Sounds and looks too ideal and that is a Lot of points put into freeing up those bombers. But when you're not in an ideal situation you are going to need to readjust your plans just as much as the Rebel player.

There will be no easy plays for either side, just watch.

Which is one of the things I think I'm going to love about Armada. It looks so far to be very well balanced, which combined with the objectives is going to make it a thinking mans game.

And a final reason. Escort. A single Tie Advanced squadron can fend off 2-3, maybe even 4 attacks with some luck, and still let the bombers fire on capital ships. [

If the bombers are within range 1 of enemy fighters they are engaged and must shoot squadrons if possible, not captial ships, regardless of if they have escorts or not. All Escort does is prevent them from being shot at by enemy squadrons.

I can't stress the above enough as despite being pointed out more then a few times it seems to be disregarded by some.

One thing I've been a little confused about; Major Rhymer extends the range of friendly squadrons to medium range, but I thought squadrons used the opposite side of the range ruler (with section 1-5) while moving and firing. It was my impression that squadrons could only attack at distance (not range) 1. Does Maj. Rhymer change the side used to measure or just mean they can shoot up to distance 2? Or do I completely misunderstand squadron attacks?

One thing I've been a little confused about; Major Rhymer extends the range of friendly squadrons to medium range, but I thought squadrons used the opposite side of the range ruler (with section 1-5) while moving and firing. It was my impression that squadrons could only attack at distance (not range) 1. Does Maj. Rhymer change the side used to measure or just mean they can shoot up to distance 2? Or do I completely misunderstand squadron attacks?

No, you are right, as weird as it seems Major Rhymer appears to allow squadrons to use the capital ship side of the ruler.

Yeah, Rhymer says to hell with the standard ruler, but it looks like distance 1 is the same, or very, very close to Close range anyway.

Ok yes if no fighters putting pressure on the bombers then ok big time op.... but with fighters the bombers need to attack them 1st

The point is, that with squadren commands the bombers are fast enough to completely evade the rebel squads and still be able to shoot since they don't have to get close. So a good commander will NEVER be engaged with the rebel fighters

The a-wing can counter this

In fact, the awing is the only rebel fighter that can counter this. Therefore I expect to see at least one in every rebel fleet.

Well since the a wing is IMO the best rebel fighter as far as multi role goes, I'd take 4 at least in my lists. There's a lot that goes into the rhymer combo, initiative is extremely important, so you get first activation. Its also obvious. As an aside, the old rhymer text had it out to range 2, I wonder why it was changed.

Ok yes if no fighters putting pressure on the bombers then ok big time op.... but with fighters the bombers need to attack them 1st

The point is, that with squadren commands the bombers are fast enough to completely evade the rebel squads and still be able to shoot since they don't have to get close. So a good commander will NEVER be engaged with the rebel fighters

The a-wing can counter this

Each Squadrons "Engagement Range" extends R1 in all directions. Meaning the ER is R1×2+Base Size.

That is a fairly large area and will allow Squadrons to picket for Ships to prevent enemy bombers from getting to them, instead of having to rely on just jumping them to force engagement.

If your concerned about a Rhymer group jumping your ships but don't have the ability to chase them down, you do have the ability to just push out your picket Squadrons to an appropriate distance to prevent Rhymer from gaining the needed position un-engaged.

If you place your pickets out slightly further then Range 1 of your Ships then you extend your ER past the max range of Rhymer's and back far enough that it is not realistic that he can hop your ER and get behind. At least in the initial stages.

I do not see Rhymer's worth being in some massive salvo blob, as that is too easy to prevent. Rather later in the RDs he will give you greater threat range to reposition once fleet cohesion is lost.

One thing I've been a little confused about; Major Rhymer extends the range of friendly squadrons to medium range, but I thought squadrons used the opposite side of the range ruler (with section 1-5) while moving and firing. It was my impression that squadrons could only attack at distance (not range) 1. Does Maj. Rhymer change the side used to measure or just mean they can shoot up to distance 2? Or do I completely misunderstand squadron attacks?

I don't have a ruler to state this with certainty, but I'm pretty sure that Range 1 for squadrons is the same distance as close (black) range for ships.

I did a lot of comparing between available pictures, and if they aren't the same distance, it's **** close.

One thing I've been a little confused about; Major Rhymer extends the range of friendly squadrons to medium range, but I thought squadrons used the opposite side of the range ruler (with section 1-5) while moving and firing. It was my impression that squadrons could only attack at distance (not range) 1. Does Maj. Rhymer change the side used to measure or just mean they can shoot up to distance 2? Or do I completely misunderstand squadron attacks?

I don't have a ruler to state this with certainty, but I'm pretty sure that Range 1 for squadrons is the same distance as close (black) range for ships.

According to the measurements that forensicus gave us a few weeks back from the ruler in his demo copy:

Distance 1 : 7.6 cm

Close Range up to12.3 cm

Medium Range: up to 18.7 cm

Taking into account the diameter of the squadron base gives squadrons a roughly 17.6 cm diameter engagement zone.

That's going to make it hard for Rhymer to get past a well flown fighter screen as there's only about a centimeter of wiggle room. If Rhymer and his bombers get past that 17.6 cm bubble, they still need about 2.4 cm to put their base down and not be engaged with the fighter screen.

I don't think you'll necessarily be able to keep that perfect fighter bubble around your ships. Take into consideration the displacement that happens whenever ships move through squadrons, and if you're placing them at exactly distance 1 from your ships to maximize your defensive bubble, you'll be spread out, and vulnerable to fighters jumping one segment and blowing a hole in your CAP. Rhymer gives a tactical threat that will be impossible to ignore. And that will allow his controlling player to dictate how his opponents reacts, giving him the advantage.

There is no need for the bubble to be perfect to be effective. It certainly does spread your net thin, and provide your opponent to concentrate in one area to overwhelm your picket, but it should limit the impact that had been suggested in this thread. Specifically the use of a Squadron Command to blitz in and get cheap shots in from downtown. By preventing that and forcing a player to have to use the Squadron Phase to actually bust through your pickets you allow for your other picket Squadrons to collapse in on an area and stop a breakthrough. If the Imperial player doesn't have sufficient actual Anti-Squadron firepower, they will get stalled up. Even if they have a TIE Adv. in there soaking some damage the Bombers are still held up in a situation they are less suited to.

Just because you can't easily catch the Bombers at first doesn't mean they are guaranteed a first strike on your ships. You know where your Ships are/are going to be, thus you know where your opponent needs to be to get at them, so rather then chase you have your Squadrons occupy a position that invalidates or complicates the position your opponent needs to occupy. Rhymer complicates the positioning concept by forcing you to push your pickets out further, but he doesn't invalidate it with his ability.

Either way, I can wait until May when we can actually see how it works!

If you look at the "Star Destroyers!" article, in the GSD's card spread, on the bottom row there is an officer card named "Admiral something", the best fit for the text shown is that with a squadron command your squadrons treat something as having something when moving. This card most likely allows you to treat enemy squadrons as having the heavy rule, allowing you to pull bombers from being engaged, and depending on the text, fly into engagment and still fire on a capital ship. In other words, he's the imperial version of the "double tap" officer in the assault frigate kit.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/1/16/star-destroyers/

Darn it!

I have not even received my copy, and the sky is already falling?!

FFG, you better come up with a new game pronto for me to obsess about.

My bad.