So rhymer increases his and nearby allies range up to medium. Squadron command lets you move and attack in either order. So rhymer and a cpl buddies can activate within medium range, pummel a ship, then fly out of retaliation range. It only get worse with the victory title, as it ramps their speed up to 5, combine that with the modification that is likely 'Expanded Hangarbays' which looks like it ups command by 1. You could have 4 tie bombers just zipping around, outpacing awings and interceptors, dropping 4 black dice a round. Beautiful.

So rhymer increases his and nearby allies range up to medium. Squadron command lets you move and attack in either order. So rhymer and a cpl buddies can activate within medium range, pummel a ship, then fly out of retaliation range. It only get worse with the victory title, as it ramps their speed up to 5, combine that with the modification that is likely 'Expanded Hangarbays' which looks like it ups command by 1. You could have 4 tie bombers just zipping around, outpacing awings and interceptors, dropping 4 black dice a round. Beautiful.

So rhymer increases his and nearby allies range up to medium. Squadron command lets you move and attack in either order. So rhymer and a cpl buddies can activate within medium range, pummel a ship, then fly out of retaliation range. It only get worse with the victory title, as it ramps their speed up to 5, combine that with the modification that is likely 'Expanded Hangarbays' which looks like it ups command by 1. You could have 4 tie bombers just zipping around, outpacing awings and interceptors, dropping 4 black dice a round. Beautiful.

Tie Bombers OP as Hell....???? Never thought I'd hear that in my life. They will still need a Tie escort to keep fighters off them or they will drop like flies. If left ignored they will punish a capital ship fast.

Agreed -- Rhymer appears to be intended to ensure Rebs cannot ignore the TIE Bombers

That's the thing, they can fly so fast and shoot so far away, that fighters going after them will have to overextend imo, leaving them easy prey for your own fighter corp. escort them with interceptors or tie advanced, get those guys stuck in, then have the bombers just coast around, and drop big ole b-bombs onto some tasty tasty rebel ships.

That's the thing, they can fly so fast and shoot so far away, that fighters going after them will have to overextend imo, leaving them easy prey for your own fighter corp. escort them with interceptors or tie advanced, get those guys stuck in, then have the bombers just coast around, and drop big ole b-bombs onto some tasty tasty rebel ships.

Also Rhymer boosts all fighters range, so the escorts get to shoot as well.

And Rhymer can plop down in front of a ship at medium range, and if the ship is travelling at speed two, get not one, not two, but likely three shots on target (based on a rough look at the range and movement tools)

Essentially you can't block his first attack if your fighters don't pin him down before the squadron command... Which means A wings are gonna be real valuable.

Rhymer? Overpowered? You've got to be kidding me -

- wait this isn't the x-wing forum

So rhymer increases his and nearby allies range up to medium. Squadron command lets you move and attack in either order. So rhymer and a cpl buddies can activate within medium range, pummel a ship, then fly out of retaliation range. It only get worse with the victory title, as it ramps their speed up to 5, combine that with the modification that is likely 'Expanded Hangarbays' which looks like it ups command by 1. You could have 4 tie bombers just zipping around, outpacing awings and interceptors, dropping 4 black dice a round. Beautiful.

Sure, but they won't be able to attack your capital ships or move away if you engage them with fighters. And if you're relying on Rhymer's Range bonus, it won't take much to engage all of the bombers with just a couple of squadrons. Further, due to the right clustering of bombers, your capital ships with anti-squadron armaments will get shots on all the bombers. Plus the bombers will be a in a dogfight using their sub-par anti-squadron armament vs bigger X-Wings which will be throwing four anti-squad dice compared to just two from the TIE Bombers (and X-Wings have an extra HP too)

Rhymer will go down fast in that instance without escort. The Imperial player will need to protect bombers... just as the rebel player will need to respect them.

Also Rhymer boosts all fighters range, so the escorts get to shoot as well.

And Rhymer can plop down in front of a ship at medium range, and if the ship is travelling at speed two, get not one, not two, but likely three shots on target (based on a rough look at the range and movement tools)

Essentially you can't block his first attack if your fighters don't pin him down before the squadron command... Which means A wings are gonna be real valuable.

Also even though there will be a lot of Rebels vs Imperials there are also going to be a lot of blue vs blue battles too, so don't just plan your squadrons against one faction.

So rhymer increases his and nearby allies range up to medium. Squadron command lets you move and attack in either order. So rhymer and a cpl buddies can activate within medium range, pummel a ship, then fly out of retaliation range. It only get worse with the victory title, as it ramps their speed up to 5, combine that with the modification that is likely 'Expanded Hangarbays' which looks like it ups command by 1. You could have 4 tie bombers just zipping around, outpacing awings and interceptors, dropping 4 black dice a round. Beautiful.

Sure, but they won't be able to attack your capital ships or move away if you engage them with fighters. And if you're relying on Rhymer's Range bonus, it won't take much to engage all of the bombers with just a couple of squadrons. Further, due to the right clustering of bombers, your capital ships with anti-squadron armaments will get shots on all the bombers. Plus the bombers will be a in a dogfight using their sub-par anti-squadron armament vs bigger X-Wings which will be throwing four anti-squad dice compared to just two from the TIE Bombers (and X-Wings have an extra HP too)

Rhymer will go down fast in that instance without escort. The Imperial player will need to protect bombers... just as the rebel player will need to respect them.

No admiral worth his salt will willingly move a capital ship up to engage 4 TIE Bombers, betting 1-2 separate Blue dice against 4 black dice hitting back. Remember, Blue dice only have a 1/2 chance of doing a single damage, where black dice have a 3/4ths+crits from a bomber. Further more, Bomber with the above setup move an entire range ruler, then fire for 2/3rds of one again. X-wings cant even catch them.

And a final reason. Escort. A single Tie Advanced squadron can fend off 2-3, maybe even 4 attacks with some luck, and still let the bombers fire on capital ships. For the luls, embed Baron Fel and an Advanced squadron or two. Enemy fighters must attack the Advanced first, and Fel deals them 1 damage each time. To maximize it, Put Darth Vader in the mix for absolute terror.

Of course this is a lot of points tied up in this formation, but it is a very capable threat. Also mind that each bomber is throwing a separate dice, which means that defenders have to spend those precious tokens carefully.

Im going to wait til the core set drops so i get some actual playtime, then start writing up a Squadron Tactica.

So rhymer increases his and nearby allies range up to medium. Squadron command lets you move and attack in either order. So rhymer and a cpl buddies can activate within medium range, pummel a ship, then fly out of retaliation range. It only get worse with the victory title, as it ramps their speed up to 5, combine that with the modification that is likely 'Expanded Hangarbays' which looks like it ups command by 1. You could have 4 tie bombers just zipping around, outpacing awings and interceptors, dropping 4 black dice a round. Beautiful.

Sure, but they won't be able to attack your capital ships or move away if you engage them with fighters. And if you're relying on Rhymer's Range bonus, it won't take much to engage all of the bombers with just a couple of squadrons. Further, due to the right clustering of bombers, your capital ships with anti-squadron armaments will get shots on all the bombers. Plus the bombers will be a in a dogfight using their sub-par anti-squadron armament vs bigger X-Wings which will be throwing four anti-squad dice compared to just two from the TIE Bombers (and X-Wings have an extra HP too)

Rhymer will go down fast in that instance without escort. The Imperial player will need to protect bombers... just as the rebel player will need to respect them.

No admiral worth his salt will willingly move a capital ship up to engage 4 TIE Bombers, betting 1-2 separate Blue dice against 4 black dice hitting back. Remember, Blue dice only have a 1/2 chance of doing a single damage, where black dice have a 3/4ths+crits from a bomber. Further more, Bomber with the above setup move an entire range ruler, then fire for 2/3rds of one again. X-wings cant even catch them.

And a final reason. Escort. A single Tie Advanced squadron can fend off 2-3, maybe even 4 attacks with some luck, and still let the bombers fire on capital ships. For the luls, embed Baron Fel and an Advanced squadron or two. Enemy fighters must attack the Advanced first, and Fel deals them 1 damage each time. To maximize it, Put Darth Vader in the mix for absolute terror.

Of course this is a lot of points tied up in this formation, but it is a very capable threat. Also mind that each bomber is throwing a separate dice, which means that defenders have to spend those precious tokens carefully.

Im going to wait til the core set drops so i get some actual playtime, then start writing up a Squadron Tactica.

sure you will, if you have fighters that engage the bombers, they won't be able to attack the ships, they will be forced to take on squadrons.

And yes, I will send my frigate to deal with it, as your 6-7 squadrons (which is what, almost your entire 100 points of squadrons?) will be in one firing arc and I'll get plenty of shots on all of your fighters too. The ships getting to roll against ALL squadrons is a big deal, whereas your squadrons will be tied up by mine, and most of them won't have the anti-fighter armament to do too much damage.

A frigate's squadron battery does a whopping average of 1 damage a round per attack. you only have a %50 chance of dealing damage with a blue dice. Blacks hit far harder, and the fact that you have to save tokens for the Imperial Capital ship barrages mean that most of those bomber salvoes will get through. The first round definitely will. You simply cant catch the bombers in time.

You're also disregarding the fact that ships must shoot, THEN move. Which means you simply place the bombers outside of range 2, wait for the ship to move, then attack it with a squadron command and move away. Your frigate and fighter are going to get kited all over the map. And besides, every point you invest in a-wings are points you didn't invest in the fighters that actually scare my capital ships.

I think we have to have a wait and see attitude for this.

We still haven't got the game in our hands to be making calls that Rhymer is OP

He does have some interesting buffs but we can't just assume it will make him OP.

It may just mean the Rebels will have to prioritize squadrons over bigger ships.

The Rebel aces have abilities that make them just as deadly.

Aces like Luke Skywalker can ignore ship shields, while Dutch Vander can make enemy squadrons become activated when they are attacked by him.

Bombers with Rhymer have a strike range of ~1.5 lengths of the range ruler. You simply cannot zone control that much space with rebel fighter scum. He and his squadron(s) will get an unblocked first strike.

If you pathetic rebel frigate survives the first round, the Imperial fleet will enter weapons range in the next round, and wipe you out.

Queue evil sinister laugh...

Some good ideas here but Jimbobii has a point. If the Bombers and Fighter Escort are Engaged by enemy fighters they will be stuck in the Squadron fight for as long as it lasts. The Bomber's antisquadron abilites are not good at all and won't be contributing to the fight much and your enemies will be flying right past your escorts to engage your bombers as soon as they get in range of movement.

So you will need to engage all of your enemy's fighters early and hold the Bombers back. That and hope no A-Wings slip past your escorts.

The bombers will not be easy to get into firing range without being engaged and there will need to be tactics used in order to do so. There will also be counter tactics and so forth.

I think the Squadrons are going to be a fun part of the game that is not just a Push the Models style of play.

Also I don't think having your fighters next to your capitals is a good idea with bombers on the board. You will need to flh ahead of the capitals and engage the enemy fighters far ahead of the larger ships and plan to engage Bombers as a priority. This goes for both Imperials and Rebels.

Thats my point. And Bombers don't exactly just go "poof" either when you attack them.

Rebels have a weird thing going on with their squadrons: Half of them are Heavy Bombers, and the X-wings themselves are slower than EVERY Imperial squadron and are probably pulling double duty hitting ships as well with the Bomber rule. That leaves just the A-wing for primary interceptor duty. If you take enough of them to blanket your forces, you risk getting out muscled by the individually superior Imp capitals, because you dont have the bombers to keep them honest and not plunging in.

Thats my point. And Bombers don't exactly just go "poof" either when you attack them.

Rebels have a weird thing going on with their squadrons: Half of them are Heavy Bombers, and the X-wings themselves are slower than EVERY Imperial squadron and are probably pulling double duty hitting ships as well with the Bomber rule. That leaves just the A-wing for primary interceptor duty. If you take enough of them to blanket your forces, you risk getting out muscled by the individually superior Imp capitals, because you dont have the bombers to keep them honest and not plunging in.

True enough.

Listen, B-wing are monsters in their own right, they'll chew through capital ships unattended, Y's are the toughest squadron on the board, and Xwings are probably the best all rounder.

But Rhymer doubles the firing range for his nearby allies, and that is undeniably HUGE.

Ok yes if no fighters putting pressure on the bombers then ok big time op.... but with fighters the bombers need to attack them 1st

True enough.

Listen, B-wing are monsters in their own right, they'll chew through capital ships unattended, Y's are the toughest squadron on the board, and Xwings are probably the best all rounder.

But Rhymer doubles the firing range for his nearby allies, and that is undeniably HUGE.

So squadron tactics are going to be interesting to watch. And being in the game early we will be the ones developing them. Kind of exciting So I am not disagreeing with you, I am just saying Rhymers can be delt with making his ability balanced and not OP by the basic rules of the game.

Rhymer is great and I plan on using him a lot. However, he’s only useful if he can shoot capital ships. The thing is rebel fighters will cut through non-elite imperial fighters EXTREMELY fast. You will need to keep your 3 hulled ties to last long enough for your bombers to do something in the flanking scenario(best case scenario).

Note Wedge+Tallon+Yavaris will on average destroy 3 non-elite activated ties a turn by himself. In order to get Ryhmer to be useful, you will need LOTS of other elite pilots to cover for him(and soak up the damage).

A frigate's squadron battery does a whopping average of 1 damage a round per attack. you only have a %50 chance of dealing damage with a blue dice. Blacks hit far harder, and the fact that you have to save tokens for the Imperial Capital ship barrages mean that most of those bomber salvoes will get through. The first round definitely will. You simply cant catch the bombers in time.

You're also disregarding the fact that ships must shoot, THEN move. Which means you simply place the bombers outside of range 2, wait for the ship to move, then attack it with a squadron command and move away. Your frigate and fighter are going to get kited all over the map. And besides, every point you invest in a-wings are points you didn't invest in the fighters that actually scare my capital ships.

sure, but as an opposing player I can use my own squadron command and have my own fighters move into engagement range, which will lock out your bombers. Even without a squadron command, I can move and not get a shot, but still freeze the bombers from hitting my capital ships.

If I'm seeing a mass of four tie bomber squadrons (or more) with Rhymer, I'm certainly going to keep my fighter screens out in front of my capital ships enough that you won't be able to pull that off. I'd set the screen up to ensure any move to get into range would engage at least one squadron, and then my other squadrons can come help and tie you up further.

The more bomber squadrons you have, the more I can dedicate to screening them. If you start putting points into accompanying them with Howl and Vader, I'll have to be more careful, but the bombers won't be as effective or in as great of a number.

Being force to engage fighters means my fighters will always block your bombers if I keep them at the right distance from my ships while being between yours and mine. At most, you'll get two uncontested shots before my fighters engage and you have to counter them (and future tie bombers will move on a later activation into an engagement zone, thus not getting Rhymer's benefit).

I think the fighter screen game is by far the most interesting and maybe tactical portion of the game, going to be really fun.

A frigate's squadron battery does a whopping average of 1 damage a round per attack. you only have a %50 chance of dealing damage with a blue dice. Blacks hit far harder, and the fact that you have to save tokens for the Imperial Capital ship barrages mean that most of those bomber salvoes will get through. The first round definitely will. You simply cant catch the bombers in time.

You're also disregarding the fact that ships must shoot, THEN move. Which means you simply place the bombers outside of range 2, wait for the ship to move, then attack it with a squadron command and move away. Your frigate and fighter are going to get kited all over the map. And besides, every point you invest in a-wings are points you didn't invest in the fighters that actually scare my capital ships.

sure, but as an opposing player I can use my own squadron command and have my own fighters move into engagement range, which will lock out your bombers. Even without a squadron command, I can move and not get a shot, but still freeze the bombers from hitting my capital ships.

If I'm seeing a mass of four tie bomber squadrons (or more) with Rhymer, I'm certainly going to keep my fighter screens out in front of my capital ships enough that you won't be able to pull that off. I'd set the screen up to ensure any move to get into range would engage at least one squadron, and then my other squadrons can come help and tie you up further.

The more bomber squadrons you have, the more I can dedicate to screening them. If you start putting points into accompanying them with Howl and Vader, I'll have to be more careful, but the bombers won't be as effective or in as great of a number.

Being force to engage fighters means my fighters will always block your bombers if I keep them at the right distance from my ships while being between yours and mine. At most, you'll get two uncontested shots before my fighters engage and you have to counter them (and future tie bombers will move on a later activation into an engagement zone, thus not getting Rhymer's benefit).

I think the fighter screen game is by far the most interesting and maybe tactical portion of the game, going to be really fun.

Can't wait for you to try that post-release of the Raider, mwahaha. I use squadron commands to close and fire, you engage, I move in with two raiders next turn and clean up your fighters while my ISD keeps your caps off their backs, by turn three-four my bombers are free to make a mess again

I mean you are assuming the Raider is going to have some prolific level of Anti-Squadron dice, when it's not likely to be more armed in that regard then the CR-90. Maybe the more expensive variant will get 2 dice instead of one.

A frigate's squadron battery does a whopping average of 1 damage a round per attack. you only have a %50 chance of dealing damage with a blue dice. Blacks hit far harder, and the fact that you have to save tokens for the Imperial Capital ship barrages mean that most of those bomber salvoes will get through. The first round definitely will. You simply cant catch the bombers in time.

You're also disregarding the fact that ships must shoot, THEN move. Which means you simply place the bombers outside of range 2, wait for the ship to move, then attack it with a squadron command and move away. Your frigate and fighter are going to get kited all over the map. And besides, every point you invest in a-wings are points you didn't invest in the fighters that actually scare my capital ships.

sure, but as an opposing player I can use my own squadron command and have my own fighters move into engagement range, which will lock out your bombers. Even without a squadron command, I can move and not get a shot, but still freeze the bombers from hitting my capital ships.

If I'm seeing a mass of four tie bomber squadrons (or more) with Rhymer, I'm certainly going to keep my fighter screens out in front of my capital ships enough that you won't be able to pull that off. I'd set the screen up to ensure any move to get into range would engage at least one squadron, and then my other squadrons can come help and tie you up further.

The more bomber squadrons you have, the more I can dedicate to screening them. If you start putting points into accompanying them with Howl and Vader, I'll have to be more careful, but the bombers won't be as effective or in as great of a number.

Being force to engage fighters means my fighters will always block your bombers if I keep them at the right distance from my ships while being between yours and mine. At most, you'll get two uncontested shots before my fighters engage and you have to counter them (and future tie bombers will move on a later activation into an engagement zone, thus not getting Rhymer's benefit).

I think the fighter screen game is by far the most interesting and maybe tactical portion of the game, going to be really fun.

Can't wait for you to try that post-release of the Raider, mwahaha. I use squadron commands to close and fire, you engage, I move in with two raiders next turn and clean up your fighters while my ISD keeps your caps off their backs, by turn three-four my bombers are free to make a mess again

Wow, it sure is impressive when you ignore everything else the Rebels will have at their disposal!