So while perusing the reference rules pdf I kept seeing odd mentions of "initiative symbol" and squadron mentioned together. Examination of the learn to play pdf revealed that the initiative token has two different symbols/colors on each side, paired with the colors/symbols on the squadron activation slider. During each status phase you flip the initiative token to the other side.

But why does this matter Potter? you may ask. It matters because you cannot activate a squadron of it's cuurent icon/color does not match the curent rounds icon/color. But shouldn't you be activating every squadron every turn? You retort. Consider the following:

You have a Ywing squadron engaged with a tie interceptor. You know you're going to eat a 4 dice attack at least, and would prefer to not trade the additional 2 dice of your own attack for the 2 dice counter attack the interceptor gets. You decide to wait til next turn when you can squadron command an xwing squadron over to kill the tie interceptor. Note that you may not activate to move because you are engaged. You move to the status phase, initiative token flips, new round.

You now cannot activate the ywing squadron this turn because it's slider is on the wrong icon/color. I'll admit the language is a little fuzzy because under squadron activation it say "can move or attack, but not both." I see nothing that says you can activate simply to just move the slider, the implication is that you have to have a legal action to take there.

This would also come into play if you forgot to activate a squadron for one turn, as it would also be out of play the next as well.

Interesting, I noticed the language you mentioned in the rules but didn't think anything more of it. In "Squadron Phase" however on page 12 the last portion of the first paragraph: "Players continue taking turns in the manner until all squadrons have been activated." So every squadron will be activated each round before the rounds ends, barring any future rule changes like ion effects for fighters or something. That being said since "A squadron can either move or attack when activated during this phase", is it possible to just wait out the turn after being activated? It's that "either" in that line that makes me think it must do one or the other each turn, and that makes counter and escort effects that much more useful tactically. I think if fighters were allowed to pass a round it could make some fighter engagements take longer than they were intended to.

There's also Dutch, in the upcoming wave, which lets you activate an enemy squadron.

From my reading, squadron activation is not optional. On page 10 of LTP; "He chooses on of his squadrons and activates it.", "...the player must activate a second unactivated squadron, if able.", "This process continues until all squadrons are activated."

Once activated, "Each squadron that activates during this phase may either move or attack, but not both.", and the rules reference says "... it can move or attack, but not both."

So it appears to me that you are required to activate the squadron, but not required to actually do anything during the activation.

Interesting, I noticed the language you mentioned in the rules but didn't think anything more of it. In "Squadron Phase" however on page 12 the last portion of the first paragraph: "Players continue taking turns in the manner until all squadrons have been activated." So every squadron will be activated each round before the rounds ends, barring any future rule changes like ion effects for fighters or something. That being said since "A squadron can either move or attack when activated during this phase", is it possible to just wait out the turn after being activated? It's that "either" in that line that makes me think it must do one or the other each turn, and that makes counter and escort effects that much more useful tactically. I think if fighters were allowed to pass a round it could make some fighter engagements take longer than they were intended to.

Ah I missed the part about having to activate, but yeah I want to see if you can choose to activate yet do nothing. Or that means that since all squadrons have to activate, you MUST a attack a squadron you are engaged with, which makes counter that much more powerful.

Dutch isn't that applicable in this scenario since he does toggle the slider to be correct side for the next initiative flip. He just prevents you from being able to activate and act normally this turn.

Won't work.

The rules state that the process of activating squadrons continues untill all squadrons have been activated, no choice to opt out.

You can then take a move or a shoot action.

You can't move because you are engaged.

You are forced to take the shoot action since A) you have to activate and B) you can't move because you are engaged

I agree with the others. The wording seems to point at you having to activate Every squadron even if you don't want to, but that said you are not forced to shoot or move. It says a Squadron 'can' either move or shoot. It doesn't state 'must'.

I agree with the others. The wording seems to point at you having to activate Every squadron even if you don't want to, but that said you are not forced to shoot or move. It says a Squadron 'can' either move or shoot. It doesn't state 'must'.

Pointed out the word either in my post earlier, haven't seen that come back up yet. Sure there's no "must" in there, but either seems to imply that there is no third option.

Occam's Razor is telling me that you must be able to activate and do nothing with it, but with the fuzzy language there, i'm going to at least ask for clarification, or wait til it officially comes out, and see if they address it then. Also it might be worded differently in the actual Rulebook that comes with the Core set, so we'll find out this weekend i suppose.

Occam's Razor is telling me that you must be able to activate and do nothing with it, but with the fuzzy language there, i'm going to at least ask for clarification, or wait til it officially comes out, and see if they address it then. Also it might be worded differently in the actual Rulebook that comes with the Core set, so we'll find out this weekend i suppose.

Fair enough, although if anything I would expect the PDFs to be more accurate since they wont have had the chance to correct the version in the box since it was printed, and I kinda expect that the version that was originally posted with the size typo (maybe) was the one they used for printing.

The one that was posted was definitely the one printed.

I think the fact that it says can move or attack means that you can also do neither. Think about the flip argument when you don't have a target in range. You would need to move your fighter even if you don't want to.

So I think you do not need to attack.

As long as you are are able to move, you don't actually have to move to be considered as having moved for squadrons. It explicitly states that. It says no such thing for attacks. That being said, i do agree that you'll get to choose to do nothing, but the language addressing that could/should have been tighter.

As long as you are are able to move, you don't actually have to move to be considered as having moved for squadrons. It explicitly states that. It says no such thing for attacks. That being said, i do agree that you'll get to choose to do nothing, but the language addressing that could/should have been tighter.

It's not perfect but they did do a really good job, IMO.

As long as you are are able to move, you don't actually have to move to be considered as having moved for squadrons. It explicitly states that. It says no such thing for attacks. That being said, i do agree that you'll get to choose to do nothing, but the language addressing that could/should have been tighter.

Right and right. But be somewhat easy on FFG, their wording on rules are still fantastic even if it is not perfect and it is us nit-picky gamers that find these word issues and helps FFG create their FAQ's.

It's not perfect but they did do a really good job, IMO.

Completely agree, and i even see why they went with this weird initiative-flip-toggle system, as it saves players time by not having to fiddle with possibly 20 odd squadrons at the end of every turn.

I just have a keen eye for weird rules from my horror (Read: Rules Lawyer) days playing 40k, so when i see odd things i like to address them before they get out of hand.

!#%&ing Doom of Malanti

Presently the either/or but both language present in the rules text means you have to do one or the other when activating.

While it is possible that FFG means for Squadrons to be able to do nothing it is also possible that they were purposeful in thier word choice.

Only a few days wait for release and then it is an easy question to submit for clarification.

Although the rules suggest you have to move or attack (or attack if engaged) I'm sure that isn't the case this is a tactical combat game after all so forcing the player to perform a poor tactical action seems counter-intuitive. There will be times you don't want to move (e.g. screening a ship) and as the OP pointed out, sometimes it will be better not to attack when engaged.

That said, I think an official ruling is needed.

Of course you MUST activate first 1 squadron and then a second squadron if able. No need for a ruling IMO. Otherwise your opponent will simply do the same and "wait out" and then it will go back and forth

Another important point:

The two sides colored token is not an indicator for or of which player has Initiative:

Player 1 is always the player with Initiative and keeps it throughout the game in each round. The token is "just" meant as an aid to check when/if all squadrons have been activated: in a "Blue round" all squadrons start out wiling the Blue tab showing and when activated the Red tab is pushed out. At the end of the round all squadrons will be showing a Red tab and then the token is flipped and we are ready for next round which will be a "Red round"

Presently the either/or but both language present in the rules text means you have to do one or the other when activating.

While it is possible that FFG means for Squadrons to be able to do nothing it is also possible that they were purposeful in thier word choice.

Only a few days wait for release and then it is an easy question to submit for clarification.

Exactly. The rules address it in 2 spots:

• When a squadron is activated during the Squadron Phase, it can move or attack, but not both.

and

• A squadron can either move or attack when activated during this phase; it cannot do both.

Optional movement is covered here:

• When a squadron moves, it can choose to remain in its current position and is still considered to have moved.

but

• An engaged squadron cannot move.

So an unengaged squadron can activate to just sit still with no problem. An engaged squadron does not get that option.

This is a permissive ruleset. You have to be told exactly what you can and cannot do. The rules do not implicitly state that you can activate an do nothing at all. That say you can do one of 2 things. However, it seems a little strong that your poor Y-wings might be forced to attack say, Howlrunner-backed TIE Interceptors, trading 2 dice attacks for 3 dice w/re-roll Counter attacks.

So we reach our dilemma.

Hrmmmm:

Squadron: Resolve after revealing the ship’s command dial. ◊ Dial: Activate a number of friendly squadrons up to the ship’s squadron value that are at close–medium range of the ship. Each squadron activated in this way can attack and move in either order. The squadrons are chosen and activated one at a time.

This has different wording, and is closer to supporting being able to activate and do nothing imo.

Another important point:

The two sides colored token is not an indicator for or of which player has Initiative:

Player 1 is always the player with Initiative and keeps it throughout the game in each round. The token is "just" meant as an aid to check when/if all squadrons have been activated: in a "Blue round" all squadrons start out wiling the Blue tab showing and when activated the Red tab is pushed out. At the end of the round all squadrons will be showing a Red tab and then the token is flipped and we are ready for next round which will be a "Red round"

I had not initially spotted where the rules state that:

During this phase, the first player activates two of his squadrons. Then the second player activates two of his own squadrons. Players continue taking turns in this manner until all squadrons have been activated.

We have already addressed that you MUST activate all squadrons. Our question now is, when engaged, do you HAVE to attack, since you cannot move, or can you choose to activate and take no action whatsoever.

I think the rules are quite clear actually. If the opponent forced your Y-Wings into combat with TIE Interceptors that means he achieved the upper hand and you failed to protect your vulnerable bombers.

As per the rules reference, not moving is still considered a move (you just moved 0 distance)

When a squadron moves, it can choose to remain in its current position and is still considered to have moved.

Also from the references and the rules:

When a squadron is activated during the Squadron Phase, it can move or attack, but not both.

Each squadron that activates during this phase may either move or attack, but not both.

So the sequence to me is:

You must activate a squadron

-> You can move or attack

-> if you are engaged you can't move

therefore if activated while engaged you must attack

Good point Viking, I see what you mean and I agree now that it does seem to be the intention of the rules.

Right, this was also my initial reading, but I like to er on the side of caution.

It's certainly not a bad thing to look at rules with a critical mindset and ask questions/clarification!

I spent years playing the rules quagmire that is 40K, I can understand where you are coming from

Also from an "in game perspective": if you are the poor y wings, by themselves no support, and you are engaged with squints you would fight. Now if you were escorted by X wings you might not.

In any case counter is an abstract representation of the anti-fighter strength of space superiority fighters.