With the release of Scum and Villiany I have been testing so many lists on the Vassal system. The list I've fought the most is three elite interceptor (turr, Carnor and Fel) the interceptor/Vader (turr, Fel, Vader). My torkil and hwk builds have no worries, as well as the bomb lists I try, well they work half the time. The list I really want to try versus them is a three Starviper list. You'd be looking at equal ability to dmg, dodge, and reposition. The PS would beat you everytime though! That's when I had the revelation.

While they have the ability to move like interceptors, Starvipers are not squints, they're what makes you squint. They're bright lights that should be blinding and in your face.

So, I made this list:

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Scum%20and%20Villainy&d=v3!s!103:104:-1:-1:;100:18,-1:-1:15:;101:105,-1:-1:15:

The BSE at PS1 would be a blocker and a threat with the ion torpedo. Once you get that off, you use him as a DMG buffer for xizor. Guri and xizor work in tandem and eat away whoever caught by the BSE bump and hopefully get range 1 enough to negate auto thrusters.

Has anyone tried this or similar three viper lists? What's your experience?

Starvipers can't move like interceptors. They can boost and barrel-roll like interceptors, but they move like Keyan Farlander (i.e, a B-wing with essentially no red on its dial) plus segnor's and minus the k-turn

Also, two things

1.) imo, body guard Guri is the single silliest thing you could possibly do with an expensive combat ship. Give the poor girl predator!

2.) I have no faith in ion torpedoes or torpedoes in general that aren't flechette (don't have to hit to be effective). Give the poor bastard auto-thrusters, and then turn the other 3 points into Predator for Guri (and then turn bodyguard into more auto-thrusters!)

whoops, 3 things

3.) The Starviper can't move like an interceptor, because the dial has four green maneuvers as opposed to...a lot. I've found PTL to be very ineffective because of this.

The solution? ******* predator.

Not that Xizor is very good with other Vipers. If you're passing off hits to high point cost, low hull ships it's already bad enough. If you're passing off crits to expensive, one shield ships...well...

I'm not a fan of Push the Limit on Interceptors, either. Except Soontir Fel, of course.

I'm not a fan of Push the Limit on Interceptors, either. Except Soontir Fel, of course.

Me too.

I have yet to get or even say S&V yet so I can't really comment.

I'm not a fan of Push the Limit on Interceptors, either. Except Soontir Fel, of course.

Me too.

What do you guys run them with then?

There's a reason PTL is so good on them, it maximizes maneuverability, defense, offense, and of course coolness.

I'm not a fan of Push the Limit on Interceptors, either. Except Soontir Fel, of course.

Me too.

You're all dead to me.

I have yet to get or even say S&V yet so I can't really comment.

You can, however, try them out

I love starvipers. Both predator guri and predator xizor are like B-wings on speed and steroids

Especially in this scenario, Ion torpedo on a PS1 ship is a bad idea. He won't be able to get a target lock on the first engagement, and after that he'll likely be too close to use it, not have arc, be dead, etc. Even in the best case, it'll be an unmodified 4 dice against an interceptor - not a great investment.

Xizor can work, but this may be a bad matchup for him. He really wants VI for PS9, so he can maneuver with your enemy's high PS ships. But he'll be at a disadvantage in terms of action economy. His ability is also wasted if your're only flying starvipers with him.

3 Starvipers is already a bad idea for most matchups, I think. But particularly so against a 3 aces squad. I'd stick with other lists, unless you feel like an uphill battle.

Am I the only one who was expecting some awesome montage of Starbuck vs Soontir Fel? Cuz, I'm so bummed that didn't happen.

Ion Torpedoes (and by extension Assault Missiles) are really best used against mixed formations; if your opponent is running tanky ships then those unmodified dice stand a decent chance of hitting the formation as a whole.

But no, you're not going to want to fight squint aces with Starvipers, especially Xizor.

I consider Star Vipers as unshielded E-wings.

I consider Star Vipers as unshielded E-wings.

But only when there's just one of them.

Defensively, they profile more like a fragile Defender than the Interceptor or E-Wing, due to the lack of an Evade action. The fact that they have the hull/shield stats of a HWK means they tend to wear most of the crits that get rolled against them, as those are the last things to be cancelled on a defensive roll.

I'm not a fan of Push the Limit on Interceptors, either. Except Soontir Fel, of course.

Me too.

What do you guys run them with then?

There's a reason PTL is so good on them, it maximizes maneuverability, defense, offense, and of course coolness.

For RGPs, I will go with Hull Upgrade and Determination. It worked pretty well for 26 points, with RGPX2 with Determination, I end up discarding 1 damage card a game which is a lot for 2 points. (this was pre AT and now I would put AT on as well).

Other times, I find just putting on double modifications (Shield/Hull) works just fine. I have been flying a lot of S&V lists lately so haven't tried them with AT, which appears to be a win for them.

I find opening up the 1 and 3 speed maneuvers as well as the K-turns more than makes up for the Boost/BR combo. I often find that PTL closes down maneuverability since it makes you predictable, which leads to being blocked. A blocked interceptor is a dead interceptor. In addition, against any list that causes stress (which isn't uncommon), the PTL ends up rotting on the vine.

I get why some people like PTL on Interceptors and I couldn't put anything else on Fell. I just think that there are better/cheaper options.

If I was going to run 3 SVs it would be:

BSV + Fletchette + ATs

BSV + ATs

Guri + Title + Predator + Advanced Sensors + ATs + Inertial Dampeners

Main problem with this squad is the problem it has against anything PS 6 or higher. You'll have to do a lot of guess work to figure out where your opponent is going to go. It would be fun to fly and would give any list packing turrets a headache, but not good against a lot of things out there.

Trying to build your vipers like interceptors is a big no no in my opinion. For Xizor PS7 is just not high enough to get the most out of PTL and VI makes it harder to dodge and hurt things with only 1 action. Also it's crazy these guys can't evade! I'm still trying to figure out how best to make them work but in the ps 8-11 meta it's hard!

If I was going to run 3 SVs it would be:

BSV + Fletchette + ATs

BSV + ATs

Guri + Title + Predator + Advanced Sensors + ATs + Inertial Dampeners

Main problem with this squad is the problem it has against anything PS 6 or higher. You'll have to do a lot of guess work to figure out where your opponent is going to go. It would be fun to fly and would give any list packing turrets a headache, but not good against a lot of things out there.

This makes sense and I can see it being a viable list, Ill give it a run tonight!

I know S&V love for variety, even more so with the vipers.

I really love Guri with sensor jammer running with Palob, who no one focuses around.

I just want to see if I can do it, and I love the idea of 3 squints versus 3 vipers.

Honestly I've been thinking about a 3 vipers list and haven't found it to be very easy to do. Sadly virago limited provides the best upgrades. Other than auto you don't really get a lot to work with until torps are fixed in the supposed bomber buff.

I consider Star Vipers as unshielded E-wings.

Vipers are worth their cost, generic E-wings aren't.

I like the insanely maneuverable guri...

Guri + daredevil + virago + inertial dampeners + advanced sensors. + autothrusters.

I consider Star Vipers as unshielded E-wings.

Vipers are worth their cost, generic E-wings aren't.

Are they?

I don't see a lot of Generic Star Vipers due to costing 25 points and unlike Corran Horn which has an awesome pilot ability Prince Xizor ability is rather awful. Sure you could surround him with Scum-wings then again you could just take 5 Y-wings instead.

I consider Star Vipers as unshielded E-wings.

Vipers are worth their cost, generic E-wings aren't.

Are they?

I don't see a lot of Generic Star Vipers due to costing 25 points and unlike Corran Horn which has an awesome pilot ability Prince Xizor ability is rather awful. Sure you could surround him with Scum-wings then again you could just take 5 Y-wings instead.

eww no

Xizor's ability is ******* bananas. It might as well read "as long as there's a friendly ship in range 1, never get shot ever":

Build him up for offense (either predator & sensors, or V.I & FCS), toss on thrusters, and fly him like a madman

If your opponent shoots him, he's doing it wrong. If you're not flying crazy to get range 1 shots and generally not giving a ****, you're doing it wrong.

I used to think the lack of evade was a death sentence on this ship. Now after playing it many times, despite never using TL, I can savely say that auto-thrusters and either named pilot's ability more than compensate for that lack.

The named Starvipers are my favorite S&V pilots, you just have to learn to get around any possible preconceptions. Starvipers are literally unlike any other ship in the game and they have to learned accordingly (though the play-style generally boils down to sledgehammer 90% of the time, reposition 5%, and arc-dodge 5%). I'm not kidding when I say they fly like B-wings on steroids and speed, because they both go faster and take a lot more hits to kill if played properly.

I just thought of this:

BSE + AT x 2 (1 with Fletchette)

Xizor + LW + AT + Title + Sensor Jammer + Hot shot

Yes.. Lone wolf on Xizor. So before you call me crazy, hear this out. You run them in a formation with the Prince in the back. You give your opponent a tough choice. Shoot at Xizor and have a really tough time sticking any kind of damage on him or take out his wingman. The easy choice is shoot the wingmen. Which is what you want. If you get Xizor in the end game, he's going to be extremely durable with LW, SJ, and AT combo. Good luck to your opponent if he's 1 on 1 against him. It sounds crazy, but it just might be crazy enough to work.

I consider Star Vipers as unshielded E-wings.

Vipers are worth their cost, generic E-wings aren't.

I don't see how trading an Astromech slot, a Systems slot, and the Evade action for 2 points and the Boost action makes the StarViper a good value when the E-Wing isn't.