Just a question but what happens if you put Han in just an unmodified YT-1300 frigate. I'm talking about the 2 firepower 6 hull 4 shield type? Now of course you can't cost the same point so this is what I did to figure out the point cost. The named pilots of the VT-49 and the YT-1300 mirror each other in point cost. So there is a 6 point difference between the lowest and highest decimator pilots. So take the ORS add 6 points and add the Pilot ability and pilot skill 9.

So here is my calculated version of baby Han as in a YT-1300 but not the Modified YT-1300 Millennium Falcon.

• Pilot skill 9
• Firepower 2
• Agility 1
• Hull 6
• Shields 4
• 2x Passenger slots & EPT for Han
• (Han's Re-roll ability)
• Point cost 33

My prediction is that 2 firepower is so weak especially on big ships is that this will not do as well even when it cost more than 10 points less. Some might still argue that 33 is not enough points because with the VT-49 that is a skill jump from 3 to 8 where ORS to Han is a skill jump from 1 to 9 but I think it is justified because this ship would not perform up to its point cost.

Does anyone want to do the jousting value on this theoretical pilot?

Imagine 2 attack dice turrets against auto thrusters. You wouldn't be able to play them.

A better question is: would soontir fel be better off in a 1980s ford XR3I with go faster stripes?

Imagine 2 attack dice turrets against auto thrusters. You wouldn't be able to play them.

People tend to forget that Autothrusters is not +1 evade vs turrets. It's +1 evade out of arc. You can negate it by arcing the things.

I always thought the cost would be 35, or more.

Such a version should still have an EPT slot, I think. A lot can be gained from that; predator, marksmanship/gunner...

People tend to forget that Autothrusters is not +1 evade vs turrets. It's +1 evade out of arc. You can negate it by arcing the things.

...or at range 3. So, in order to realistically have a chance of hurting an Autothrusters-equipped ship, the 2 attack dice turret needs to have them in arc and within range 1-2.

People tend to forget that Autothrusters is not +1 evade vs turrets. It's +1 evade out of arc. You can negate it by arcing the things.

...or at range 3. So, in order to realistically have a chance of hurting an Autothrusters-equipped ship, the 2 attack dice turret needs to have them in arc and within range 1-2.

Autothrusters should've been able to be "shot off" much like Stealth Device.

He would be pretty garbage

You don't want to go matching 2 dice against Soontir WITHOUT thrusters. Even whisper wouldn't give a toss with an evade canceling half of han's damage

Autothrusters should've been able to be "shot off" much like Stealth Device.

They've certainly been VERY effective at buffing TIE Interceptors/A-Wings.

It's a bloody good upgrade card. Arc-dodgers excel at getting out of other ships' firing arcs, but other ships now NEED to get arc-dodgers INTO their firing arc (at close range, too!) to have a reasonable chance of taking them down.

Already done.

The jousting value of 3/1/8/5 is ~24.8 points.

The jousting value of 2/1/6/4 is ~16.2 points.

Han currently has a jousting efficiency of ~24.8*(1+9/24)/(46-2) = 77.5%.

So if you put him in a 2/1/6/4 ship with the same jousting efficiency, he would have to cost about 30 points.

However it gets more complicated than that, because part of what makes Fat Ships work so well are the upgrades. When the base platform is expensive, upgrades are more cost effective. Lets just say that a real Han costs about 60 points with upgrades, so 14 points of upgrades. If you want to keep the total value the same, then the total cost needs to be proportional to the ratio of the jousting values.

60*16.2/24.8 ~= 39 points.

14 of those are upgrades, leaving 25 points for Han. So, Han at anything around 30 points or higher would be pretty useless, especially considering that because of his PS bid his main job is to kill the high-agility targets that nobody else can catch. (Whisper, Interceptors). And he would really want to cost about 25 points to have a similar value to what he has now.

Also, autothrusters.

People tend to forget that Autothrusters is not +1 evade vs turrets. It's +1 evade out of arc. You can negate it by arcing the things.

...or at range 3. So, in order to realistically have a chance of hurting an Autothrusters-equipped ship, the 2 attack dice turret needs to have them in arc and within range 1-2.

Autothrusters should've been able to be "shot off" much like Stealth Device.

I don't think so. What we really need is an updated Damage deck. There needs to be crits in there that can destroy/strip modifications & crew. Too bad there is not an easy way to introduce it though.

People tend to forget that Autothrusters is not +1 evade vs turrets. It's +1 evade out of arc. You can negate it by arcing the things.

...or at range 3. So, in order to realistically have a chance of hurting an Autothrusters-equipped ship, the 2 attack dice turret needs to have them in arc and within range 1-2.

Autothrusters should've been able to be "shot off" much like Stealth Device.

Maybe, but only if we first wipe the primary turret out of existence.

Autothrusters are exactly what the interceptor needed to be viable. The starviper's vulnerable hull heavy profile also seems to have been structured around the upgrade

Imagine 2 attack dice turrets against auto thrusters. You wouldn't be able to play them.

People tend to forget that Autothrusters is not +1 evade vs turrets. It's +1 evade out of arc. You can negate it by arcing the things.

Yeah, but good luck getting Soontir in the Falcon's arc. If it does happen, you probably sacrificed your action so you'd be throwing 3 reds at (most likely) 4 greens and probably an Evade token. It's reasonably likely that Soontir even has an extra Focus for defending himself.

Han with 2 attack dice would be pretty helpless against ships with Autothrusters. The third die combined with his reroll still gives him a reasonable chance to hit most ships that have Autothrusters (Soontir being able to Focus-Evade-Stress!Focus makes him really hard to kill), but take 1/3 of his firepower away and he can't do much.

...take 1/3 of his firepower away and he can't do much.

It's as much as half of his firepower, really. The cut depends on what assumptions you make about the defender and the action economy, of course, but if you restrict the conversation to targets with 3 Agility, then 3 Attack does about twice as much damage on average as 2 Attack.

Imagine 2 attack dice turrets against auto thrusters. You wouldn't be able to play them.

If we're talking about a world where the best primary turret only used two attack dice (three at R1), would we have even needed Autothrusters?

Whoa. I thought there was an error in the OP for saying the attack value was only 2 ... but sure enough, the Outer Rim Smuggler has a completely different stat line (other than 1 agility) from the other three YT-1300 pilot cards!

I had no idea.

Are there any other ship types in this game where the generic pilot has lower values in the stat line than the named pilots?

Are there any other ship types in this game where the generic pilot has lower values in the stat line than the named pilots?

No, the YT-1300 is unique in that way.

Whoa. I thought there was an error in the OP for saying the attack value was only 2 ... but sure enough, the Outer Rim Smuggler has a completely different stat line (other than 1 agility) from the other three YT-1300 pilot cards!

I had no idea.

Are there any other ship types in this game where the generic pilot has lower values in the stat line than the named pilots?

nope!

apart from pilot skill, all other stat-lines are the same (weird then that the OSR has less hull/shields/offense and even no missile slot...the horror...)

not sure why they made the ORS that way, but it is priced according to its stats with a mere 27 points to its name (which still isn't anywhere near stat-efficient, probably, but it's 15 points down from chewie)

I far prefer how they handled the YT-2400, though

Are there any other ship types in this game where the generic pilot has lower values in the stat line than the named pilots?

No, the YT-1300 is unique in that way.

It would have been cooler if it was the MF title that changed the statline. Have all of the named pilots cost 10 points less and have the title cost 10.

Whoa. I thought there was an error in the OP for saying the attack value was only 2 ... but sure enough, the Outer Rim Smuggler has a completely different stat line (other than 1 agility) from the other three YT-1300 pilot cards!

I had no idea.

Are there any other ship types in this game where the generic pilot has lower values in the stat line than the named pilots?

nope!

apart from pilot skill, all other stat-lines are the same (weird then that the OSR has less hull/shields/offense and even no missile slot...the horror...)

not sure why they made the ORS that way, but it is priced according to its stats with a mere 27 points to its name (which still isn't anywhere near stat-efficient, probably, but it's 15 points down from chewie)

I far prefer how they handled the YT-2400, though

I assume it was priced that way to reflect that the Falcon itself was supposed to have been heavily modified over the stock YT-1300. It's one of two things that I wish FFG would try again (the other being the Aux firing arc).

A better question is: would soontir fel be better off in a 1980s ford XR3I with go faster stripes?

Weeeellll.... he would still have his stripes... and probably would get a free stress everyturn just for being in that car so... I think he would do okay!

WWHSD, I agree entirely. The cards for Han, Chewie and Lando should have been cheaper and based on the ORS with the MF title opening up multiple mods that could have the been added such as shield, hull upgrades and a mod for increasing firepower and agility. Then if people wanted to fly 2 yt1300 only 1 would be The falcon.

Tbh honest I can't complain though because in my local meta (8 of us) the falcon is not used much as we all prefer proper fighters and snub ships.

I don't think so. What we really need is an updated Damage deck. There needs to be crits in there that can destroy/strip modifications & crew. Too bad there is not an easy way to introduce it though.

How does a crit strip off a shield or hull upgrade besides...you know...damaging the ship? I could feasibly see it for autothrusters, EU, stuff like that, but the balance I think it would be way too clunky. Cards that effected crew or systems would be interesting, but the impact of 4 more damage cards would IMHO be negligible compared to the headache of distribution. Every time I see the suggestion for a new damage deck I really feel like it's a solution in search of a problem.

Now for a hypothetical X-Wing 2nd Edition (which should still be a few years out if it comes at all), I'm all for it.

Imagine 2 attack dice turrets against auto thrusters. You wouldn't be able to play them.

Depends does defender have focus? If you block the autothruster defender from getting an action and they roll all eyeball results they get 0 evades even if out of arc.

But that makes Soontir Fel extremely good because he can focus + PTL action to get double focus results so you can likely pull 4 evades from out of arc and range 3.