With so many heroes. classes and quests to choose from, it seems a shame that some of these heroes and classes would have to be put aside for awhile during campaigns. I was thinking of trying to come up with some sort of career mode, where you could choose more then one hero. It would require some record keeping of course. Here are my basic thoughts:

-Each player chooses 4 Heroes at the start of Career Mode. They all must be a different Archetype and can only pick the available classes. They then assign the player's colored rune to that hero.

- In a campaign, all Act 1 Quests are played.

- Each Hero would have a Status- And Exhaustion Level and an Injury Level.

-After Each quest is completed, a hero would receive one Exhaustion Point. For every Exhaustion Point he has accrued, he would start each quest with one fatigue counter. If he has three Exhaustion Points total, he cannot be used in any quests.

-For Every Knockout a hero receives in a quest, he receives one injury point. For every injury point that he has accrued, he would start each quest with one heart counter. If he has five Injury points total, he cannot be used in any quests.

- Any heroes not used in a quest clears one Exhaustion point and one Injury Point and any combination. ( Either 2 of each.)

- You may use the Inn before shopping to clear all Exhaustion Points. Each hero must spend 25 Gold per visit.

- You may visit the Healer before shopping to clear all Injury Points. Each hero must spend 25 Gold per visit.

- All Shop Items and Relics are Bind on Equip. They belong to the hero alone and cannot be used by anyone else, including heroes belonging to the same player.

-If the Overlord wins a Campaign (Finale Quest), his Overlord Deck size increases by 5. He keeps all Relics. All Equipment is considered lost and returned to their respective decks. If the heroes win a Campaign, they are rewarded with 50 Gold per surviving hero of the Finale and all heroes remove any Exhaustion and Injury Points.

-If at anytime a hero is slain, the player may choose a new hero and class. He cannot choose any Hero who has previously been slain.

Expansions on this idea include:

Creating Injury Cards- Whenever a hero gets knocked out, he draws an Injury Card. Injury Cards have differing levels of point values, both In Exhaustion Points and Injury Points. Injuries also have effects that stay on the hero until the end of each Encounter. At the end of each encounter, The hero flips the Injury card. At the end of each quest, he counts the number of Injury Cards and applies the point totals to his Status. Points cannot go above their max levels.

Interesting idea...however I would see this more as something for solo plays. I don't think this would be a good thing when playing with 4 hero players who each can control 4 heroes, so a total of 16 heroes. I'm affraid this might too time challenging for a player group but can work for solo/co-op plays.

Like the idea of using injury points although i wouldn't make it 5 each, seems a bit too "easy" in my opinion.

As you use this for playing solo, then i think this can be a good variant. However, i would personally pick like 6 heroes and they can split in any way they like. Fort instance you decide you pick a Fat Goblin and only wanna do this with 2 heroes. This means you have 4 heroes left in your group. You can your other 4 heroes to play for instance Castle Daerion.

So then you have played 2 act I quests and only have to play one quest. For your third act 1, you can again choose from your 6 heroes. And so on.

You can still use your equipment rules and injury levels.

Just sharing my opinion

No problem. I welcome opinions.

I am concerned about the amount of heroes that you should use for a particular campaign. Perhaps you can assign heroes to a particular campaign and they can't do any other quests in other campaigns until the campaign is over. Or as you said, have 4 Main heroes, but 2 ( or more) could be reserve heroes.

As for the Injury Cards, I was thinking more along the lines of some of them not even having Injury Points. ( For Instance, you can draw the "Concussion" card. 0 Injury points but you must roll a Strength attribute test. Failing Stuns the hero.)

Couple more examples : "Ankle Sprain", Injury Point 1. You have -1 movement points. "Broken Ribs" Injury Point 2 , Actions cost one Fatigue. "Critically Wounded" - Injury Point - 4 You may not perform a Standup action. The ratio of more devastating injuries to lighter ones would be less of course.

Ok, thinking on it, perhaps Injuries are not the best way to do it. Here are my current thoughts:

At the Start of Each Campaign, There are 4 Main Heroes and 2 Reserve Heroes. Main Heroes are assigned a Rune and can only be played by one player. The Reserve heroes are backup, they can be played by any player in the Campaign instead of the main hero for each particular quest.

After Each Quest, Each hero Receives an Exhaustion Point. He receives an additional Exhaustion Point for every time he is Knocked Out during a quest. A hero can either Choose to rest at an Inn between Quests to recover All Exhaustion Points for the Cost of 25 Gold, or skip a Quest to Recover them all. If a hero enters a Quest with Exhaustion Points, he adds up the total amount and starts the Quest with that number of Fatigue Counters. If it is above his Max Fatigue, then he suffers an additional Heart for each extra Point.

Any Hero assigned to a Campaign must complete the Finale before moving on.

All Act I Quests are played. All Corresponding Act II Quests are played. Any Rumor Quests played are considered part of the Campaign.

After the Finale is played: If the Overlord wins, he grows in Power. His Overlord Deck size increases by 5. If the Heroes win, The OL's power wains. The Overlord must separate the Basic OL Cards from the Special OL cards. The Heroes then choose 5 of those cards and remove them from the OL's Decklist. This can include any Lieut cards he has obtained through EXP as well.

After a Finale, any surviving Hero can choose to become Inactive. He keeps his class deck and all abilities learned. All equipment is removed from his person and can either be sold or given to another hero. Relics remain with the hero. The player can then choose a new Hero or one of the Reserve Heroes as his main.

If any hero is slain, the player loses all of the equipment that was equipped. Return them all to their specific decks. The Player may choose a new available Hero as his main. That hero gains the player's colored rune. A Reserved hero may be chosen as the new main.

Slain heroes may not be chosen again for any reason. Inactive Heroes cannot be chosen to be a main again, but you may pick them to be Reserve Heroes. They still retain all the class abilities as before and any relics they have equipped.

Have you playtested this yet? Cos it seems like a good variant but playtesting is the best way to make sure it actually works.

Overall thoughts:

* 4 heroes and 2 reserve: well i wouldn't actually use "reserved" heroes. Kinda feels like they are second best. Maybe you have to think in terms of allies? Like each hero has an allied hero he can call for aid. Now i wouldn't implement that you simply call the ally and he just magical appears on the board. Make it realistic: let the hero use both of his actions to call for aid. The ally hero sheet is placed beside the main hero who summoned him. Then place damage and fatigue tokens on the allied hero sheet as if he were knocked out. The main hero rolls at the start of his turn 2 red dice, recovering that many damage and fatigue tokens from the allied hero sheet. Once all damage tokens are removed, the allied hero is placed on the entrance tile and may activate along with the other heroes. Fatigue tokens that are still on the allied hero sheet remain there; only the damage tokens need to be removed in essence.

Not sure about equiping a rune to each hero...might have some unbalance properties straight away; i mean mostly it's about the "journey" and you don't want the heroes to be too powerful right away.

* Exhaustion points: good addition but maybe it can be more simple. When the heroes finish a quest (winning or losing), they keep their fatigue tokens on their hero sheets. It's kinda logical in a way; they are tired from the quest and have to travel back so they will be fatigued after all.

Like your idea of the Inn; 25 gold to remove a fatigue token or skipping a turn to completly remove all fatigue.

* Heroes needing to complete the final to move on: 100% agreed! But keep in mind, a story has to end somewhere

* All corresponding act quests have to be played: yes and no. Yes as this gives you a total campaign experience...no if you wanna shorten the campaign lenght.

For instance; short campaign --> 1 act I quests, interlude, 1 corresponding act II quests, finale

medium campaign --> 3 act I quests, interlude, 3 corresponding act II quests, finale (interlude and finale determined by whoever won the last act quest)

full campaign --> 5 act I quest, interlude, 5 corresponding act II quests, finale

* after finale Overlord grows in power: well...like i said, a story has to end sometimes. Maybe creating an "evil" or lieutenant deck is a good alternative? You play a campaign and defeat a boss (Zacchareth, Valyndra, Queen Ariad, Bol'Goret, Mirklace and Skarn) as they are considered to be end bosses for a campaign. So you can create your own Final Boss...defeating his/her foes along the way. Personally i think Mirklace would be my ultimate end boss but that's pure own opinion.

I like the idea of the overlord increasing his hand limit for overlord cards and the vice versa when the heroes win. AN idea also could be to create some foryune and doom cards...heroes draw a fortune card when they win (can be one of their stats will be increased or one of them can choose a second ally) and the overlord draws a doom card (like every monster gains +3 health for the rest of the campaign or overlord may draw 3 additional overlord cards,...)

* a hero becoming inactive: i wouldn't go down that road to be honest.

* losing equipment when slain: i would change slain into knocked out. Kinda makes me think of videogames where your armor or stuff breaks when you are defeated. Maybe the hero has to remove an item or roll a dice to see which one is broken? Each time a hero is knocked out he loses a hero token. If he hasn't got anyone left, he is slain, death for good... RIP

* Slain heroes: i have to say i kinda liked your idea about the injury level to be honest. Again maybe making it something in line ith what i said about the exhaustion level. For the injury level, heroes remain their damage tokens on their hero sheets. They can visit the healer (like you mentioned) to remove a token for 25 gold or skipping a turn to completly regain full health.

Sorry for my long boring ideas but i think this is a good variant if worked out nicely. Happy to help you with insights.

PS: i'm working on a variant to make all campaigns a co-op/solo exploring experience. You keep true to the story campaign but have to draw tiles to see what behind a corner or behind the bushes. Gives a more exploring feeling (something i kinda miss in Descent). Also will be using the loot/doom track from Forgotten SOuls so a time limit is present and you are rewarded for killing monsters.

PS: i'm working on a variant to make all campaigns a co-op/solo exploring experience. You keep true to the story campaign but have to draw tiles to see what behind a corner or behind the bushes. Gives a more exploring feeling (something i kinda miss in Descent). Also will be using the loot/doom track from Forgotten SOuls so a time limit is present and you are rewarded for killing monsters.

Make sure you check out Madmartigan's Legendary Play Rules and RedJak's Automated Overlord variant (over at boardgamegeek.) You might be trying to devise ways to do things they've already figured out.

I guess instead of "Runes" I should say "Hero Tokens". They just look like Runes. But I refer to them by the colors: Gold, Bronze, Silver, and Violet. Each main hero would be assigned to that player's specific colored Token. But only for one campaign.

I'll have to check them out Zaltyre. Thanks.

Ok, how about this. Negate everything I said before this point. This is how it would work:

-At the start of a Campaign, Each player picks One Main Hero. That Hero is assigned to that player and can only be played by that player. Each player gets a colored Rune ( so you would assign that to each main hero.) Each hero's class is also picked.
- The players choose two Reserve Heroes. They then decide which classes they will be for the remainder of the Career Mode. These two heroes can be played by any player instead of the main for each Quest in the Campaign.

- Main Heroes must participate in the Interlude and Finale quests.
- All Act 1 Quests are played. All Act 2 Quest corresponding to the Act Quest are played.
- Heroes receive a Status and Injury Level.

- After every quest, every hero who participated in the quest receives one Exhaustion Point. Every hero that did not participate in the quest clears all Exhaustion Points.

- When knocked out, every hero rolls one Blue Die. For every heart, they receive one Injury Point. For every Surge they receive 1 Exhaustion Point. A Miss means no points received.

-Upon entering a quest, the Exhaustion Points and Injury Points are taken into account. For every Exhaustion Point, he receives a Fatigue counter. This counter cannot be removed in anyway from the hero. ( It's permanent throughout the quest.)

- Injury Points determine how many total Health a Hero has based on starting Hearts listed on his Hero Sheet:

0-3- Full Life

4-6 25% Rounded Down. (( Grisban has 12 Base Hearts. He has 3 Injury Points. So he takes 25% handicap to his total health. Hos max health in this quest is 8, plus whatever armor or trinket effects alter it. )

7-8 - 50% Rounded Down (( Grisban would now have 6 Total hearts)

9 - 75% Rounded Down ((Grisban would have 3.))

10 - 1 Heart Total

- Before shopping phase there is a Rest Phase. Each hero can spend 25 Gold to rest in the Inn. Resting in the Inn clears all Exhaustion Points and one Injury Point. The inn offers a discount if all heroes wish to rest. In that case it is 50 Gold Total. You can also visit the Clerics for 25 Gold. Clerics will clear all Injury Points.

-Alternatively, skipping a quest is like resting in the Inn for the Hero.

- All Relics are Bind on Equip for the Heroes. If a Hero Equips one at any time, it belongs to him and him alone.

The Finale: Finale quests are very important in each Campaign. After the end of every Finale Quest, these results occur:

If the Overlord Lost his power wanes:

-The Heroes choose five non basic Overlord Cards and remove them from the OL's available deck list. He must purchase them with Experience if he wishes to use them again.

-The Heroes choose one of the available Plot Decks. This Deck is now unavailable to use.

- Choose a Relic the Overlord owns return it to the Relic Deck.

-Shuffle all Act II Shop cards and draw a number of them equal to the amount of heroes that survived. Those items now belong to the Heroes.

- All Injury and Exhaustion Counters are removed.

- Main Heroes who have completed the Campaign are now switched for new Main Heroes. The player can choose any available Hero as the new main. Any Reserve Hero can now become a Main Hero for the next Campaign. Main Heroes cannot be a main Hero until the player completes another Campaign first.

If the Overlord Wins, his Power Grows:

- Maximum Overlord Deck is increased by 5.

- A New Plot Deck becomes available as well.

- All Heroes in the Finale are considered slain. All equipped items are lost and placed back in their respective decks. All relics belonging to the hero are lost and placed back into the Relic Deck.

Mini Campaigns and Co-OP Mode:

The Small Mini Campaigns and Co-Op dungeons can be substituted for a full blown campaign. For example, players could choose to clear Manor of Ravens. All Manor of Ravens Rumor and Advanced Quest cards would be removed from the Rumor deck and all available Rumors would be shuffled and used later during a large Campaign. Starting a mini Campaign in Career mode, all heroes chosen enter the Campaign as is. (So any new heroes would start off with their starting equipment and base abilities. ) This also applies to Co-Op Dungeons.

The Rumor Deck is NOT refreshed or reshuffled between Campaigns. If a Mini Campaign is played between Full Campaigns, the rumor cards associated with that Expansion are removed from the rumor Deck and the available Rumor cards are reshuffled.

Will playtest this soon and I'll let you know the results. Don't want to create an unbalance in the game. I'm hoping the Inn Phase will counteract any extra Shopping phases. I guess we'll see.

Hmm... I like my Injury Point Idea so much, I think I will apply it to Exhaustion Points as well:

Every hero gets 1 Exhaustion Point after a Quest.

Every Knockout Roll one Blue Dice. That Hero Receives one Injury Point per Heart and 1 Exhaustion Point per Surge. X equals no points added.

Exhaustion effects Hero's Max Fatigue.

0-2 No Effects

3-4 25% Max Fatigue Rounded Up.

5-6 50% Max Fatigue Rounded Up.

7 75% Max Fatigue Rounded Up.

8 No Fatigue at All.

Injury Points will be scaled as so:

- Injury Points determine how many total Health a Hero has based on starting Hearts listed on his Hero Sheet:

0-3- Full Life

4-6 25% Rounded Up. (( Grisban has 12 Base Hearts. He has 3 Injury Points. So he takes 25% handicap to his total health. Hos max health in this quest is 8, plus whatever armor or trinket effects alter it. )

7-8 - 50% Rounded Up. (( Grisban would now have 6 Total hearts)

9 - 75% Rounded Up. ((Grisban would have 3.))

10 - 1 Heart Total

During Campaign Phase, A hero can choose to spend 25 Gold at An Inn. A visit to the inn will clear all Exhaustion and Heal 1 Injury Point. If All heroes can visit the inn at one time for a total of 75 Gold. Alternatively, a Hero can visit the Healer and remove all Injury Points for 25 Gold. A hero can skip a quest. If The hero does, it is like staying at the Inn for free.

Starting a campaign to test these effects. Wish me luck.

Good luck! I'm very interested in this.

How about a straight RPG conversion?

Meaning OL becomes more of a DM as opposed to playing against the players.

How about a straight RPG conversion?

Meaning OL becomes more of a DM as opposed to playing against the players.

How about a straight RPG conversion?

Meaning OL becomes more of a DM as opposed to playing against the players.

In my opinion, that's the entire point of Descent. However, you can already play D2E with OL as GM, as is without any rule changes- he just needs to be prepared to lose.

I agree. What's the point of morphing a game focused on fierce battles between overlord and heroes into another D&D? Why not stick to games which fit your gaming need?

Nah, the idea of a powerful OL working behind the scenes is just appealing. I like the fact that there is an actual person that has to do everything he can to mess the heroes up. It makes the game fresh because the heroes aren't straight up hacking and slashing things and there are always surprises.

Think on this as if someone was actually working behind Zachereth, the same person manipulating the events concerning Valindra and the other expansion bosses. He's the one sending the Farrows out to the different places you see them in. Maybe one day, the heroes get to confront him.

I just would like to see all the expansions, (main campaigns)put together in one large super campaign, but in a way that keeps the game's balance.

I totally agree. I do like the game as is, but if your worried about leaving things out such as heroes, which was the original post, then changing to an RPG is a way to go. The OL could still have to earn and spend experience pts to level up with the heroes and gain lieutenants and fight for the Items in certain quests.

I have a group of D&D fanatics and they love the adaptaption. I have to balance things out a little more but I can still fight like heck to gain the rewards. The hard part is making the story flow and choosing the right moments to use the game parameters.

For instance I made Brother Gherinn a mini lieutentant for guardians of Deephall, encounter 1. He was the master dark priest, but as overlord I used him as my playable character. I had to beef him up a bit, but instead of giving him more hit pts. I gave him shadow bracers and immolation rune from the act 1 items deck. I also decided he was a shadowmancer and shuffled thoseOverlord cards in with the basic deck. Unfortunately for me Blackout was the only card that came up but it was cool to have something other than the same figures on the board.

Its all in how you look at it. I do like the original gameplay and actually prefer it, But as I am usually the OL its fun to shake things up with my particular group.

My question is how would experience work? If equipment sticks to the hero who obtained it, would only hero's who were in a quest gain experience? If so any hero you add later during the campaign will be lacking skills that come in handy for later quest or act two quest. This could be a set back since the OL is always gaining XP but every hero is not.

Also I think it because alot to keep track of with so many heros and having exhaustion and injury. It might be easier to have say just injury. When knocked out enough times the hero could just be dead and never used again.

Also how long would a career last? How many campaigns?

Also if hero's and OL retain their Relics they earned what happens in a quest where said Relic is given as a reward? Is it taken from the controlling side and given to the other if they win?

Experience is given when a hero completes a Quest. When they sit out of a quest, they don't get experience.

I am only saying that Relics are Bind on Equip. I've not seen any additional quests in a campaign that give you the same relic. Usually if a relic is rewarded in two seperate quests, you need to do one or the other. That's usually determined by which quest or quest path you've chosen earlier.

Any equipment that is found can be used by any hero before a quest.

You'd be playing all the Act 1 ( or Act II Quests depending on the Campaign) So there is a chance for all heroes to gain Exp, for when they need it later on. Added Shop Steps may help also. The OL gets more exp tho so... that is a thing.

Exhaustion sorta keeps you from using the same heroes over and over again. An ever changing and dynamic party. if you have a hero that's been on 3-4 quests in a row, he's going to need a breather for instance. That's why 2 reserve heroes. So someone usually sits out, recovers and is ready to go next quest. Of course KO's and Injuries can throw a kink in that.

As many campaigns as you want. Hell throw Co-Op in and treat it as a separate campaign with only 4 main heroes. You just can't do the same one over.

Been testing this out during my current solo play Campaign. I'm pretty much enjoying it, because it adds some pretty refreshing elements to the game. I'm going to start entering that area of uncertainty though, because I am at 2 Act I quests and a Rumor Quest, so we shall see what happens. I'm kind of wondering if I should put a small handicap on the OL, with there being so many quests. Perhaps if the heroes win quests, I should not allow him to get XP. That way he won't be getting XP on every single quest. Might help with future balance issues, but now I am going to see how it plays out. Of course the heroes get added Shopping trips so that might just balance out naturally.

So, the second thing I have been thinking of is the situation of using already seasoned heroes into second and third campaigns. I don't think it would be very fun or balanced to use a hero who already has his skills and relics into the start of a fresh campaign and into Act 1 Quests. I've been wondering how to get around this particular problem. So, here is something I would like to try and implement:

-After the Interlude, The Reserve heroes can be replaced with another hero outside of the Campaign before continuing on to Act II. Any replaced heroes cannot be used again until the Finale is played.

-Any hero that has been used in a previous Campaign cannot be used again in any Act 1 Quest. This will include any heroes that are being replaced.

- All heroes that replace the Reserves come in with any Soulbound Relics they obtained previously and have 0 Injury and Exhaustion.

Anyway, continuing the tests, will give you results. So far in this Campaign The Win/Loss ratio has favored the OL a tad. The Heroes won First Blood and Castle Daeron, but the OL came away with Fat Goblin, Rude Awakening and The Cardinal's Plight. Keep at it heroes!