Two of the cheapest Defenders, one with Ion Cannon, one with Flechette Cannon. 35 Point Soontir.

Is it just me, or does this list actually seem decent?

I actually ran that last week. I am removing the ion and flechette to add shield upgrade to Fel.

I've been running it for a long time, and yes it's incredibly competitive

I far prefer double flechette defenders with Stealth Device + thruster Soontir. The baron just lives long with SD

I've run a similar list. Double IGs with Manglers and Predator have been really tough matchups. They chew through the PS1 Deltas and the way that Mangler combos with the IG Gunner effect is nasty for Interceptors.

I've had the opposite experience against igs and I find this to be the list that has the absolute least problem against them.

Cannons are rough, but the defenders' small basebase and fast (Not manueverable but fast) dial coupled with the igs going wheeeee~~~ let me draw them into constant 2v1 matchups where the deltas just took them apart.

Flechette cannons really **** that ship over because it REALLY likes its red maneuvers.combined with the white k turn, igs just can't joust with deltas

I've been running Ion Cannons, that may be the difference in our results fickle.

Would it be crazy to put a 36 point echo in the list instead?

I bet 36 points of ATC Vader slot it pretty well too.

Imperial Control:

Delta, Flechette Cannon 32

Delta, Flechette Cannon 32

Vader, Predator, ATC, Ion Pulse Missile 36

Would it be crazy to put a 36 point echo in the list instead?

No, but I don't want to encourage others to play wave 5 obnoxious power lists so I try to stay away from that myself.

Would it be crazy to put a 36 point echo in the list instead?

No, but I don't want to encourage others to play wave 5 obnoxious power lists so I try to stay away from that myself.

I would imagine playing with a phantom would feel dirty, but I've always been curious to try the evil for myself.

36 points is not enough to fly evil phantoms. Not even Echo can fit ACD and both V.I + FCS at that level

it's enough for Soontir and, soon enough, Vader

Would echo+acd+tactician be actually not worth it? Obviously you gain a lot from fcs and some amount from vi, but people bidding to beat whisper beat vi echo anyway.

I've been running it for a long time, and yes it's incredibly competitive

I far prefer double flechette defenders with Stealth Device + thruster Soontir. The baron just lives long with SD

The most essential upgrade on a named Phantom is ACD. Second most important is VI. If you want a 35 point Phantom, go with Echo + VI + ACD. You're not buzzsaw so you can't just consistently turn 4-5 attack dice rolls into 4-5 hits, but you still have autowin capability against anything of lower pilot skill without a turret.

feel free to try out variations as you see fit

personally, I can't get myself to fly asymmetrical generics. Something about it just bugs the **** outta me

I also fear double aggressors more than any other build at this point in the game, so I'd rather have flechettes to counter them despite of awesome ions are

Double flechettes lets you put a Shield on Soontir as well. I think that's going to be important if you take this list to a fairly competitive event, because Decivader is such a good counter to Stealth Baron and Phantoms right now.

Double flechettes lets you put a Shield on Soontir as well. I think that's going to be important if you take this list to a fairly competitive event, because Decivader is such a good counter to Stealth Baron and Phantoms right now.

Stealth Device stacks real well with Autothrusters and PtL. It tends to last longer which in turn lets Soontir last longer, it also costs 1 point less. Vader isn't much of a threat in my play group. I'm firmly on the Stealth Device side of the debate.

Double flechettes lets you put a Shield on Soontir as well. I think that's going to be important if you take this list to a fairly competitive event, because Decivader is such a good counter to Stealth Baron and Phantoms right now.

Stealth Device stacks real well with Autothrusters and PtL. It tends to last longer which in turn lets Soontir last longer, it also costs 1 point less. Vader isn't much of a threat in my play group. I'm firmly on the Stealth Device side of the debate.

It's not really a debate, it just depends on your meta, as you allude to. If Vader crew isn't around, Stealth Device is just amazing, if he is, you want Shield Upgrade. It's not like token-stacking AGI3 Soontir is easy to hit and token-stacking AGI4 Soontir is impossible. They're both pretty hard to hit, but one is even harder to hit, and one helps against auto-hitting/auto-damage.