Guys, I know I can bust open a core set. I'm just saying I wish I didn't have to.

Faction starters would mean you couldn't play with the Core out of the box.

Faction starters would mean you couldn't play with the Core out of the box.

You could include all the core stuff in each faction starter box, and then each wave could consist of ships (with no upgrades) and an Upgrade Pack with new toys.

In retrospect, I actually agree with atkrull that the core + expansions model was a bit of a misstep by FFG. But there are a lot of indications that they initially viewed it as much closer to their board games than the tournament minis juggernaut it quickly turned into, so what makes sense to us from the Wave 6 perspective doesn't actually have much to do with the prospective picture they had a few years ago when they conceived of the game.

Faction starters would mean you couldn't play with the Core out of the box.

No, but if you buy a Rebel starter and your buddy buys an Imperial one you can play the full game. Also makes picking up two starters more attractive in the long run.

One thing I'll toss out there: FFG does seem to be good about being as consumer friendly as they can, given their business model.

Look at the Raider, for instance: how many people (other than me) had 3 Tie Advanceds before the news of the Raider? By including 4 copies of the Advanced fix in the Raider, they were rewarding people who had 3 Advances with enough cards to take care of their needs. They simultaneously created a secondary market by and for people with only 1 or 2 Advanceds.

Also look at the Rebel Aces pack. It has 2 copies of the A-Wing Test Pilot, 2 copies of the B-Wing E2, but 3 copies of the Chardaan Refit. Why? Chardaan Refit is a fix. The other two are options.

And yes: for a long time you _did_ have to buy an A-Wing pack to get Push the Limit for your Tie Interceptors. Biw you can buy a copy of Imperial Aces, and get to PTLs.

I do think StarVivers come with 2 copies of Autothrusters specifically to get them into wide circulation, and maybe even create a secondary market for the card.

All of that seems way more fair to me than having to blindly buy randomized booster packs hoping to get the 1 card that will make Squints useful.

Or, even worse: random boosters that determine which ships I have the cards to run well. I would be extremely upset if I had 8 Tie Fighters, but couldn't randomly draw a copy of Howlrunner to save my life.

And finally: watching people play the Magic market, looking for their arbitrage opportunity, so they could profit off the meta is _exactly_ why I stayed out of that game. I simply don't want that kind of metagaming in my hobby time.

If the game designers are to be believed they have stated there will be no "Card" only expansions. The ship with card model is here to stay.

I have over $1800 in ships according to the x wing inventory program, but if you cant throw down like that just buy ships you actually want.

Print out other cards then proxy them if you need. Get card sleeves and with small amount of paper backing insert the print out proxies. Works fine for home play.

If you want to play in tournaments then man/woman up and buy the ships and cards. You can get some individual cards online at ebay.

I think I get what Atkrull is sayng.

the 2 player starter is/was a great introduction into the tabletop game of X-wing...but it's not that great for the "serious" player.

it would be cool if FFG came out with new starters when they rebrand stuff for episode VII...maybe a 50 point rebel box and a 50 point Imperial box for ~$30-$40. It would (of course) come with enough new stuff that old players would want to grab one but new players could grab one and get the basics and grab another and have a tournament force.

Card packs will not get more players into the game.

Official cards are only needed for tournaments.

Everyone is going to either agree or disagree on this. Many already have the cards that they need to build whatever they desire and i dont know some seem to turn up noses at the beginers who need certain ships or cards that are not in stock. And are hard to get because of limited runs on product till it is restocked or forced to buy ships from other factions to obtain cards that they would need. Yea i know most people on here say proxy or print out cards but still im sure those people still in need of certain ships or cards would rather have actual product in hand instead of a proxy version of what they need.

Economy can be a factor in things as well. There are still people who have little to no funds to buy all the stuffs to build desired lists and yeah i can see it being a little frustraiting at times to build up what you need to play what you wanted.

Now since everyone is against blisters of upgrade cards to help beginers get caught up i would say at the most offer the same cards in every faction....I have a feeling that FFG is starting to do this i dont know since I only care about imperial ships and scum and villany ships. I refuse to buy the corellian cruiser or rebel transport because i know i would never play them. As for the new Raider im not into epic play but still might break down and get it for Vader 2.0

Also would like to add well played FFG for creating scum and villany...because now the ships i had little to no interest in buying are something i now want....I.E. Z-95's lol

Faction starters would mean you couldn't play with the Core out of the box.

No, but if you buy a Rebel starter and your buddy buys an Imperial one you can play the full game. Also makes picking up two starters more attractive in the long run.

But being able to use it out of the box is one of their major selling points. Look at how much they point that out.

I do think StarVivers come with 2 copies of Autothrusters specifically to get them into wide circulation, and maybe even create a secondary market for the card.

FFG HAS ABSOLUTELY NO INCENTIVE TO SUPPORT A SECONDARY MARKET.

Just figured that needed a lot of bolding. Everyone is thinking in terms of what they want, not what FFG, the business making and selling this game, wants. FFG will sell what works for FFG, and their current model is working just fine.

Why do they include surplus Autothrusters and TIE/x1s? Because if you had to buy a Raider for every TIE advanced you wanted to run it'd be a customer relations nightmare. Why does the Viper have two Autothrusters? Because they know people'll want to use the card in other things like the TIE interceptor and therefore make it so that you don't have to buy four Vipers.

Faction starters would mean you couldn't play with the Core out of the box.

No, but if you buy a Rebel starter and your buddy buys an Imperial one you can play the full game. Also makes picking up two starters more attractive in the long run.

But being able to use it out of the box is one of their major selling points. Look at how much they point that out.

And it's a selling point for every one of their games. The LCG has sets for two players to play, right out of the box. Armada also follows this, with enough points for each player to build a 180-point squad that will probably be less than ideal compared to someone who buys all the expansions.

I feel confident in saying at this juncture that FFG will never release a starter set that does not have enough for at least two people to play a very stripped down version of the game right out of the box.

The other thing people have to factor for is store shelves. It's a lot easier to ask a retailer to carry a few X-Wing Core Sets, which they can stock in one space, than to have them carry three separate starter sets. Especially since that store is also carrying multiple waves of prior releases, which also take up shelf space.

From someone who sells the stuff variety increases business. If I have a kid who knows nothing of Magic he can buy an intro deck, sit down and play. If he wants to have his buddy play with him he can buy the duel deck combo, if they want to expand they can get fat packs, boosters, deck building kit. With x wing you get a core set that doesn't have enough for a 100 pt squad (which is what we all eventually play). Therefore he has to buy more ships which can be a turn off to most people. But if they could buy an intro box with cards and ships to field a full squad right out of the box and play instantly at a competitive level, the hunger takes hold and they buy more product.

As for shelf space, since I know there are not a lot of players here to start, I would have order intro sets to begin with then would be able to customize my order accordingly. Not only saving my self shelf apace but inventory costs at the same time.

Therefore he has to buy more ships which can be a turn off to most people.

X-wing makes up a third of FFG's entire revenue.

You can't exactly argue their business model doesn't work.

Magic has intro decks now, but prebuilt decks were an addition that took years, and well after the game had expanded enough to actually be worthwhile. When I played Magic, the starter set was just random box of like 40-60 cards.

The need for expansions can be a turnoff initially (I recall it was for me), but that's what friends are for.

Also, prebuilt sets are not a sure thing, either. A local FLGS has scores of Heroclix Fast Packs that have been rotting on their clearance rack for months (granted, some of that could be due to balance issues and retirement within the Heroclix game, which X-Wing has not seen yet). Those starter sets are only going to be a good buy for as long as the ships within them are kept relevant. If anything, that could be the biggest problem for FFG as XWMG evolves, as the original X-Wing and TIE Fighter from the core set have both struggled to keep a place in the meta within Wave 6.

Hi all,

I'm not too sure what FFG's take on "bits" selling is, but if it's bits you want to sell to encourage people into the game, why don't you split open a couple of expansions and sell the individual parts? Lots of people do it on the bay of e.

Just don't be too greedy with your prices. Try and work them out so that in total they're close to what the pack goes for and you should be able to sell the lot easily.

Just a suggestion, and I don't even know if you would be allowed to do it, but hey, worth a shot.

Cheers

Baaa

"Everyone is thinking in terms of what they want"

it's ok...take a deep breath...some of us like the game the way it is.

(I do think $30 50 point faction starters with the episode VII branding would be cool)

FFG does many living card games. They could easily repackage small cards into card packs. They could also sell parts directly like game companies used to do, Sell the small cards for individual small ships $5 a ship. C3PO is so badly OP the cards from the Tantative could go for much more. $20?

I have been slowly working thru this thread while at work today and after reading all the posts I'd like to give my two cents. I've played a Star Wars miniature game in the past with blind boosters (wizards of the coast anyone?) and I would not under any circumstances buy into this game if that was the way it was set up. I totaled up retail on my collection before wave six came out and was at nearly $1300.....yes it blew my mind as well, but I have been buying since wave two was released. After buying most of what I want through wave six I would say I'm approaching $1500 and the only ship I have bought that I have no interest in playing is the star viper. This ship has never appealed to me in the least and if it hadn't come with auto thrusters I probably wouldn't have bothered picking it up. I purchased this for the cards and no other reason, Luckily FFG was nice enough to include two copies of the card so I can get by with one copy of one ship I have no desire to play as opposed to the cases of figures I have from wizards and NEVER pulled some figures I was after. I have multiple copies of every sku they have put out except the Falcon (only one falcon y'know) the star viper, and the Tantive. I have no animosity towards FFG because I HAD to buy a $20 ship I didn't want to get two cards because it's so much better than any kind of blind booster could ever hope to be. As has been stated repeatedly in this thread there are many options, one of the best is to educate your customers. If they want to know how much you collectin cost then tell them, if they go into sticker shock then ask them how much they spend on magic or whatever they happen to play. Tell them how much you spent on it at one time. Show them that you don't have to drop a boatload of money at one time. My collection started for around $75-$100. It's staggering when you look at how much you spend all said and done but it doesn't seem that bad $15, $30 or $60 at a time. If you run the shop then it's in your best interests not to discourage people from buying in, I have hundreds of dollars worth of ships but can only play a few at one time. That is something for them to remember as well, buy what you want to play, it doesn't really matter if you have four or five of everything, you just need enough to have a good time and spend a few hours enjoying yourself.

Therefore he has to buy more ships which can be a turn off to most people.

X-wing makes up a third of FFG's entire revenue.

You can't exactly argue their business model doesn't work.

And I would eager those people wouldn't get into the game even with a beefed up intro set...

If you have an issue with buying constant expansions then this (and really any mini game really) isn't for you...

I didn't say it doesn't work, I'm simply stating what I wish the game would offer, is it now a crime to state an opinion? Once again, I don't expect FFG to do any of this, I voicing what I would like to see in the game. Some people agree and some people don't.

Not a card game. This is a miniatures game that uses cards for customization instead of a faction book.

No card packs will be needed and there are way to many replies for a 1 day thread.

Not a card game. This is a miniatures game that uses cards for customization instead of a faction book.

No card packs will be needed and there are way to many replies for a 1 day thread.

Well, people don't tend to respond as much to topics that are settled or uninteresting. We're probably getting to the end of it, however, as 'How dare you disagree?' posts are starting.

Faction starters would mean you couldn't play with the Core out of the box.

You could include all the core stuff in each faction starter box, and then each wave could consist of ships (with no upgrades) and an Upgrade Pack with new toys.

In retrospect, I actually agree with atkrull that the core + expansions model was a bit of a misstep by FFG. But there are a lot of indications that they initially viewed it as much closer to their board games than the tournament minis juggernaut it quickly turned into, so what makes sense to us from the Wave 6 perspective doesn't actually have much to do with the prospective picture they had a few years ago when they conceived of the game.

Yes, FFG got hit hard by the demand for competitive play from the influx of tournament interested players of X-wing and Netrunner. I don't think they would change their philosophy on the core. The Core is designed to be the base of your playing experience, what most are able to start out with. The Core sets are not catered to tournament players, but to boardgame players. So, having the Core able to give a good experience for two players out of the box is key. The tournament players will still come and buy. But you are likely able to get more players interested if they just start out with a Core, and let the itch build. How many are willing to test out a $40 game vs an $80 game? One with many repeated components.

Yes, the Core sucks if you want only play Scum. But, I would imagine that those coming in for Scum only are such a minority of those interested in getting the game, that it is pointless to worry about.

From someone who sells the stuff variety increases business. If I have a kid who knows nothing of Magic he can buy an intro deck, sit down and play. If he wants to have his buddy play with him he can buy the duel deck combo, if they want to expand they can get fat packs, boosters, deck building kit. With x wing you get a core set that doesn't have enough for a 100 pt squad (which is what we all eventually play). Therefore he has to buy more ships which can be a turn off to most people. But if they could buy an intro box with cards and ships to field a full squad right out of the box and play instantly at a competitive level, the hunger takes hold and they buy more product.

Despite FFG's general policy of having the Core always being a factor (not so much with X-wing, for the most part), they wouldn't be able to play at a competitive level. Sure, they can play in 100 point tournament, but there is a learning curve. And not everyone getting into this game will be into tournaments. Designing the entire game around potential tournament players would've severly limited the sales of this game.

If anything, that could be the biggest problem for FFG as XWMG evolves, as the original X-Wing and TIE Fighter from the core set have both struggled to keep a place in the meta within Wave 6.

Umm, Luke and Biggs are still decent, and the Academy Pilot is still the best filler around.