Yeah, I think fundamentally you have to like, or at least identify with the characters in order for fight scenes to matter. You have to be tricked into caring about the outcome through the rest of the story. That didn't happen for me in any of the prequels. And yet, JJ Abrams did that for me in Star Trek: Into Darkness, and I'm not a huge trek fan.

Into Darkness was a Star Wars film in star trek clothing...

That scene on the Klingon planet was everything a Star Wars film ought to be.

It's just a weak copy of empires fight luke lost a hand so anakin lost an arm, things got thrown with the force and chopped with a lightsaber etc.

And urgh pinball yoda was just so bad...

I'd like to learn sport fencing, and at some point need to get myself a Rapier. Still, I want a flanged mace more...

Edit: pun totally unintentional. For shame.

I have a flanged mace. It's pretty nifty.

Practical, medieval, perfect for any zombie apocalypse where you are worried of blood getting on you.

Want one.

Yeah, I think fundamentally you have to like, or at least identify with the characters in order for fight scenes to matter. You have to be tricked into caring about the outcome through the rest of the story. That didn't happen for me in any of the prequels. And yet, JJ Abrams did that for me in Star Trek: Into Darkness, and I'm not a huge trek fan.

Into Darkness was a Star Wars film in star trek clothing...

That scene on the Klingon planet was everything a Star Wars film ought to be.

It's everything a trek film should not be, transporters that can take you from the alpha quadrant to the beta instantly, ships firing at warp speeds, shuttles with air intakes.

And a complete and total lack of understanding about what cold fusion is.

Terrible terrible star trek films.

But yet good star wars films.

Luke in RotJ just going full rage mode on Darth Vader is one of the defining moments of Star Wars for me. Nothing in the prequels even comes close to touching that. Plus, I've trained in swordsmanship (Japanese and European) pretty much my whole life. So, the prequel fights didn't do much for me. Too much flash, not enough kill. Now Akira Kurosawa, there was a man who knew how to choreograph a sword duel.

I took years and years of Iaido after seeing Seven Samurai for the first time. :-D

The only lightsaber battle from the prequels I value is the fight between Dooku, Obi Wan and Anakin from Episode II. Obi Wan knows Dooku overpowers them so he is stalling him, Dooku is playing with Obi Wan and Anakin. Even when Anakin finally starts to fight, it feels for a moment that his natural abilities will be enough but arent. It shows that Anakin is too sure of himself but still has to learn stuff (that and the lightning blocking stuff).

It even has the nice bit of the lightsabers in the dark lighting their faces.

Its the only lightsaber fight that shows characters, not choreography.

But the fight is spoiled by not having good characters to begin with and with the Yoda Dooku fight that doesnt serve for anything at all. It doesnt say anything about Dooku or Yoda. It would have been much more awesome if a slow walking Yoda arrived and Dooku was simply afraid of him and run away. Showing that Dooku knows where real power is, and it is not in lightsaber fighting.

A true master of the blade strikes ONCE, he doesnt pinball around like a 4 year old who has had too much sugar. My Yoda is Musashi, not some kid playing Zelda with a wiimote.

Yeah, I think fundamentally you have to like, or at least identify with the characters in order for fight scenes to matter. You have to be tricked into caring about the outcome through the rest of the story. That didn't happen for me in any of the prequels. And yet, JJ Abrams did that for me in Star Trek: Into Darkness, and I'm not a huge trek fan.

Into Darkness was a Star Wars film in star trek clothing...

That scene on the Klingon planet was everything a Star Wars film ought to be.

It's everything a trek film should not be, transporters that can take you from the alpha quadrant to the beta instantly, ships firing at warp speeds, shuttles with air intakes.

And a complete and total lack of understanding about what cold fusion is.

Terrible terrible star trek films.

Careful, the Abrams lovers are gonna go full rage mode on you! :D

Then again no Lackwit means that might not be as much of a problem.

I completely agree with you though.

Practical, medieval, perfect for any zombie apocalypse where you are worried of blood getting on you.

Want one.

I prefer Naginatas myself, I mean c'mon! It's a sword-spear!

Yeah, I think fundamentally you have to like, or at least identify with the characters in order for fight scenes to matter. You have to be tricked into caring about the outcome through the rest of the story. That didn't happen for me in any of the prequels. And yet, JJ Abrams did that for me in Star Trek: Into Darkness, and I'm not a huge trek fan.

Into Darkness was a Star Wars film in star trek clothing...

That scene on the Klingon planet was everything a Star Wars film ought to be.

It's everything a trek film should not be, transporters that can take you from the alpha quadrant to the beta instantly, ships firing at warp speeds, shuttles with air intakes.

And a complete and total lack of understanding about what cold fusion is.

Terrible terrible star trek films.

Careful, the Abrams lovers are gonna go full rage mode on you! :D

Then again no Lackwit means that might not be as much of a problem.

I completely agree with you though.

Yeah i'll just disappear them to the same jungle island i keep lack on, he's probably still alive.

It would have been much more awesome if a slow walking Yoda arrived and Dooku was simply afraid of him and run away. Showing that Dooku knows where real power is, and it is not in lightsaber fighting.

A true master of the blade strikes ONCE, he doesnt pinball around like a 4 year old who has had too much sugar. My Yoda is Musashi, not some kid playing Zelda with a wiimote.

I haven't trained in any sword styles, but this is a result I've observed in a lot of martial arts. You only get lots of flashy stuff and lots of techniques being thrown if both people are aggressive and inexperienced. The really talented guys usually don't waste themselves on attempts with a low probability of success.

Most amateur and semipro MMA fights are good examples: the fighters have a lot of strength and stamina, but their actual technique is terrible, so they spend a lot of energy without accomplishing much.

If you watch really talented martial artists, though, you see relatively long periods where not much is happening, then a clash. After the clash either someone is out of the fight or there's another long, calm period. The problem with that from a cinematic perspective, of course, is that it consists of boring bits followed by bits that are too fast to really follow.

Though you see in the original movies that they have this pattern, with dialogue enlivening the dead zones in the fight.

Though you see in the original movies that they have this pattern, with dialogue enlivening the dead zones in the fight.

Well, Return of the Jedi and Empire Strikes Back do it pretty well. Obi-Wan and Vader on the Death Star, though, look like a pair of arthritic old men... which is appropriate for at least one of them, of course, but isn't exactly inspiring.

Though you see in the original movies that they have this pattern, with dialogue enlivening the dead zones in the fight.

Well, Return of the Jedi and Empire Strikes Back do it pretty well. Obi-Wan and Vader on the Death Star, though, look like a pair of arthritic old men... which is appropriate for at least one of them, of course, but isn't exactly inspiring.

Yeah, this is true. But I think part of the issue with that is the fight is heavily dependent on kendo techniques, and is rooted in Akira Kurosawa's films (of which Lucas was a huge fan). So, the scene mimics a lot of samurai movies with little movement and a lot of facing off. I think, though, it came off as looking the way you describe, which is why the fights are markedly more physical in ESB and RotJ.

Pretty much all sci fi empires are kind of like this.

The Imperium of Man give precisely zero foxtrots how a planet is being run as long as their tithes arrive on time for example. The Inquisition handle it in the background just like the Imperial Security Bureau handle minor terrorist threats in Star Wars.

Different methods sure, but 40K tends to turn things up to 11.

In Dune, you don't see the Emperor Saurdukaur-ing anyone who raises an argument, nope it's only a big conspiracy based on Arrakis.

TLDR: You can't micromanage a galactic empire, and in the end being mustache twirling evil to everyone you meet just isn't efficient dammit.

That's because most empires are based on the late Roman Republic, early Roman Empire, where there was a loose hand on the reigns most of the time, full might of a couple of legions if you mess up.

Add to that a pinch of court jockeying from the time of the Sun King (if you're most familiar with Western History) or bureaucratic intrigue if you're more asian inclined.

Practical, medieval, perfect for any zombie apocalypse where you are worried of blood getting on you.

Want one.

I prefer Naginatas myself, I mean c'mon! It's a sword-spear!

Naginatas are also traditionally a woman's weapon. So that's awesome.

Do not autocorrect me forum!

Right, but when I was between the ages of 8 and 16, I'd fly for the Luftwaffe in flight sims. Then, that stopped. Now, Luftwhiners are my mortal enemies as I fly in defense of Mother Russia. Or for the British, or the Americans.

I have a confession to make, I am a luftwhiner (I much prefer that to wehraboo )

Though honestly I find RUSSIA STRONK people much more annoying than any other fanboys

Except all you Imperial homers out there

Right, but when I was between the ages of 8 and 16, I'd fly for the Luftwaffe in flight sims. Then, that stopped. Now, Luftwhiners are my mortal enemies as I fly in defense of Mother Russia. Or for the British, or the Americans.

I have a confession to make, I am a luftwhiner (I much prefer that to wehraboo )

Though honestly I find RUSSIA STRONK people much more annoying than any other fanboys

Except all you Imperial homers out there

Luftwhiners are the worst. They expect their planes to outperform everyone else's, and when reality encroaches on that fantasy they lose their minds. Sorry that your 109G-6 Late can't hack it with a Yak-3, but them's the breaks.

Plus, being the underdog is fun. One of my proudest moments was flying an I-16 type 24 against a 109F-4, and outmaneuvering the 109 until we both had to land for lack of fuel. And the 109 driver was one of the game's top pilots too, but I love my little Ishak.

Right, but when I was between the ages of 8 and 16, I'd fly for the Luftwaffe in flight sims. Then, that stopped. Now, Luftwhiners are my mortal enemies as I fly in defense of Mother Russia. Or for the British, or the Americans.

I have a confession to make, I am a luftwhiner (I much prefer that to wehraboo )

Though honestly I find RUSSIA STRONK people much more annoying than any other fanboys

Except all you Imperial homers out there

Luftwhiners are the worst. They expect their planes to outperform everyone else's, and when reality encroaches on that fantasy they lose their minds. Sorry that your 109G-6 Late can't hack it with a Yak-3, but them's the breaks.

Plus, being the underdog is fun. One of my proudest moments was flying an I-16 type 24 against a 109F-4, and outmaneuvering the 109 until we both had to land for lack of fuel. And the 109 driver was one of the game's top pilots too, but I love my little Ishak.

In any game there are irrational fanboys of any nation, in war thunder theres a lot of american fanboys who expect their P-51s to handle like they do in red tails, then there's russian fanboys who believe that three yak-9Ts destroyed the entire luftwaffe in a single battle and then there's your typical luftwhiner

Right, but when I was between the ages of 8 and 16, I'd fly for the Luftwaffe in flight sims. Then, that stopped. Now, Luftwhiners are my mortal enemies as I fly in defense of Mother Russia. Or for the British, or the Americans.

I have a confession to make, I am a luftwhiner (I much prefer that to wehraboo )

Though honestly I find RUSSIA STRONK people much more annoying than any other fanboys

Except all you Imperial homers out there

Luftwhiners are the worst. They expect their planes to outperform everyone else's, and when reality encroaches on that fantasy they lose their minds. Sorry that your 109G-6 Late can't hack it with a Yak-3, but them's the breaks.

Plus, being the underdog is fun. One of my proudest moments was flying an I-16 type 24 against a 109F-4, and outmaneuvering the 109 until we both had to land for lack of fuel. And the 109 driver was one of the game's top pilots too, but I love my little Ishak.

In any game there are irrational fanboys of any nation, in war thunder theres a lot of american fanboys who expect their P-51s to handle like they do in red tails, then there's russian fanboys who believe that three yak-9Ts destroyed the entire luftwaffe in a single battle and then there's your typical luftwhiner

Well, War Thunder isn't a very realistic sim, and most games screw up the P-51. Its not as maneuverable as American fanboys often think it is, but what it was very good at was high-alpha, or high angle of attack maneuvering, and in most games that is simulated very poorly. The other problem is they rarely model thrust to weight ratios properly. In reality, a Mustang could out-turn a 109G-6 and anything later than that, though not the G-2s or the F-4s. That almost never occurs in games. Also, even though it wasn't the greatest turner, that high alpha ability, the ability to pull the nose up and up and up (or in the early models having to force the stick forward to keep the nose from doing that), should net you angles in a way that is rarely modeled. So, whining about the Mustang is often justified, just not for the reasons everyone assumes.

As for the Yaks, give me a vanilla Yak-9 over a Yak-9T any day, or a Yak-3 even moreso.

If there is a great battle scene in the new movies. There wasn't a single great battle scene involving starfighters in the prequels.

Battle of Coruscant? The single most epic opening scene in all of Star Wars?

Right, but when I was between the ages of 8 and 16, I'd fly for the Luftwaffe in flight sims. Then, that stopped. Now, Luftwhiners are my mortal enemies as I fly in defense of Mother Russia. Or for the British, or the Americans.

I have a confession to make, I am a luftwhiner (I much prefer that to wehraboo )

Though honestly I find RUSSIA STRONK people much more annoying than any other fanboys

Except all you Imperial homers out there

Luftwhiners are the worst. They expect their planes to outperform everyone else's, and when reality encroaches on that fantasy they lose their minds. Sorry that your 109G-6 Late can't hack it with a Yak-3, but them's the breaks.

Plus, being the underdog is fun. One of my proudest moments was flying an I-16 type 24 against a 109F-4, and outmaneuvering the 109 until we both had to land for lack of fuel. And the 109 driver was one of the game's top pilots too, but I love my little Ishak.

In any game there are irrational fanboys of any nation, in war thunder theres a lot of american fanboys who expect their P-51s to handle like they do in red tails, then there's russian fanboys who believe that three yak-9Ts destroyed the entire luftwaffe in a single battle and then there's your typical luftwhiner

Your mistake there is thinking anyone saw red tails...they didn't not even on netflix.

And not because the true history isn't interesting but because Lucas made a fething awful movie.

There's a great mini series I saw a while back about the Tuskegee airmen that wee's all over red tails.

If there is a great battle scene in the new movies. There wasn't a single great battle scene involving starfighters in the prequels.

Battle of Coruscant? The single most epic opening scene in all of Star Wars?

Are you joking? Two minutes of bland aileron rolls, followed by Anakin and Obi Wan leaving the ARC-170s to die? It is all visually very appealing, but there is nothing of combat aviation in it.