Ships back into canon - CloakShape, V-Wing and Eta-2 Actis

By Uber12, in X-Wing

Eternal sunshine of the spotless canon it is then.

It looks like a first generation jet fighter. As a girl I loved the He-162, before I learned to hate anything German between 1933 and 1945. The He-162 reminds me of the Dunelizard:

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As a kid it was really great because it was designed for Hitler Youth as young as 11 or 12 to fly. Anakin Skywalker anyone? That's why it was called the Volksjager, the people's hunter. Though some people also called it the Salamander. Salamander ----> Dunelizard. Anyway, it never was flown by kids because it turned out that first generation jets with an engine stuck on top of them are tough to fly. Go figure.

I see no reason to hate German 33-45 engineering, it's so much cooler that any other power of the era.

I'm not saying I'm completely on board with commercially-available B-wings, or scum B-wings, or stuff like that. I've been brought up with the notion that B-wings are rebel.

That said, it really doesn't make sense that the rebels should have exclusive access to such a superior heavy fighter as the B-Wing. I have to join what That Blasted Samophlange is saying:

A commercial b-wing makes more sense than the plucky underdog rebels completely designing a new bomber, while being on the move since Hoth, but hey, let's keep the shoehorning of every character with dialog in the movies doing everything important in the galaxy far, far away.

A commercial b-wing makes more sense than the plucky underdog rebels completely designing a new bomber, while being on the move since Hoth, but hey, let's keep the shoehorning of every character with dialog in the movies doing everything important in the galaxy far, far away.

A secret project backed by resourceful people with the will to want to topple the authoritarian state...

Far more logical than a commercial project

It's not that B-Wings are Rebel, it's that they were designed by admiral Ackbar

That does make them rebel by default.

Still hijackable though......

One problem that many RW rebellions have is their limited access to resources. Frequently, RW rebellions have also been supplied from abroad. In the SWU, that's problematic, because there really is no abroad for them to get resources from, unless we consider the Empire to be a fairly distant regime that has only overarching control over the galaxy rather than deep claws into the galactic governance system, top-to-bottom.

So, the more powerful the Empire is, the more desperate we would have to consider the rebellion. The more desperate they are, the more that they would have to supply themselves through questionable means. Selling off military-grade hardware, such as B-wing fighters to criminal elements might one of the ways that they've had to stoop to in order to make ends meet.

Of course, loyal readers of HNN also know that the rebellion engages in human trafficking, the spice trade, and gun-running.

I get the feeling that the galaxy is a big place and there are many regions of space the Empire doesn't control. I also get the feeling that its control is loose most of the time, but tightens when it feels threatened. So, places like Tatooine go about their business until they do something which catches the ire of Imperial authorities, and then a crackdown ensues. I think it would be akin to the USA trying to use the Navy to police the world. Wherever the carriers (Star Destroyers) go, you have regional authority.

Edited by Nightshrike

Also, alien-on-top pornography, for sure.

I get the feeling that the galaxy is a big place and there are many regions of space the Empire doesn't control. I also get the feeling that it's control is loose most of the time, but tightens when it feels threatened. So, places like Tatooine go about their business until they do something which catches the ire of Imperial authorities, and then a crackdown ensues. I think it would be akin to the USA trying to use the Navy to police the world. Wherever the carriers (Star Destroyers) go, you have regional authority.

Yes, that also matches my understanding of the Galactic Empire. I think of them as an overarching colonial power (Yes, TIE Pilot, like the British Empire), having replaced or co-opted local elites, not providing total political control.

That total political control might exist in the core, and particularly integrated worlds on the Outer Rim (e.g. Eriadu and Lothal), but not in most of the Outer and Mid Rim.

The early Roman Empire would be a rather apt analogy, or late Republic. Including the use of Moffs to rule the provinces.

I get the feeling that the galaxy is a big place and there are many regions of space the Empire doesn't control. I also get the feeling that it's control is loose most of the time, but tightens when it feels threatened. So, places like Tatooine go about their business until they do something which catches the ire of Imperial authorities, and then a crackdown ensues. I think it would be akin to the USA trying to use the Navy to police the world. Wherever the carriers (Star Destroyers) go, you have regional authority.

This, basically. But I like to make the Stormtroopers / Imperials in my games look EXTREMELY competent, as they were hinted at being in the movies. This said, of note whenever the stormtroopers are on the offense in the movies they are extremely good, they just aren't best at garrison duty.

This said, the Empire do overtighten control in places (overmining Alderaan, using a stardestroyer to LITERALLY crush a rebellion - gravity is a *****). Both of these were Moff Warcrimes Tarkin.

Yeah, and in that scenario, it makes sense for independents to supply the rebellion, particularly if they are themselves regionally powerful. The Star Wars RPG, while non-canon, sets up the Expanse, as an area of rich trading worlds which can afford private fleets that might not rival Imperial power, but would still make it messy for the Empire to interfere too heavily in their affairs. Bespin is another example of this in ESB. Lando can't keep the Empire out, but the Empire doesn't take notice of him until Han Solo and Leia get there.

Edited by Nightshrike

Pretty much all sci fi empires are kind of like this.

The Imperium of Man give precisely zero foxtrots how a planet is being run as long as their tithes arrive on time for example. The Inquisition handle it in the background just like the Imperial Security Bureau handle minor terrorist threats in Star Wars.

Different methods sure, but 40K tends to turn things up to 11.

In Dune, you don't see the Emperor Saurdukaur-ing anyone who raises an argument, nope it's only a big conspiracy based on Arrakis.

TLDR: You can't micromanage a galactic empire, and in the end being mustache twirling evil to everyone you meet just isn't efficient dammit.

Edited by DariusAPB

Pretty much every prequel combat scene was pretty and well choreographed but utterly soulless, people who say the lightsaber fights are better in the prequels utterly miss what the OT fights are representative of.

Absolutely disagree.

Pretty much every prequel combat scene was pretty and well choreographed but utterly soulless, people who say the lightsaber fights are better in the prequels utterly miss what the OT fights are representative of.

Absolutely disagree.

In what ways do you feel the prequel fights were emotionally effective for you?

Pretty much every prequel combat scene was pretty and well choreographed but utterly soulless, people who say the lightsaber fights are better in the prequels utterly miss what the OT fights are representative of.

Absolutely disagree.

In what ways do you feel the prequel fights were emotionally effective for you?

I suppose bored is an emotional state?

They were flashy, but the raw emotion as seen in ROTJ wasn't there.

I agree with you gentlemen, but I'm curious as to what his rationale is. Maybe it has to do with the age at which you first saw it? I could see being enthralled with the Phantom Menace lightsaber duel at the age of five or so.

Pretty much every prequel combat scene was pretty and well choreographed but utterly soulless, people who say the lightsaber fights are better in the prequels utterly miss what the OT fights are representative of.

Absolutely disagree.

In what ways do you feel the prequel fights were emotionally effective for you?

How can you not see the soul here? Two adversaries that dont know each other at all! Fighting! With chorus in the background!

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Two brothers fighting! Not touching each other and thinking about the choreography! No dialogue!

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Look! they even represent their brotherhood by showing them swinging around! Like brothers do in a playground!

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And the movie is intelligent enough that when the choreographer has finally decided the battle is going to end, the characters start talking again and carefully explain the character's reasons to lose the fight so you wake up and start paying attention again! Making the rest of the fight unnecesary! Thats emotionally efective!

Just like this other fight! Makes me cry thinking about the depth of this moment:

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I agree with you gentlemen, but I'm curious as to what his rationale is. Maybe it has to do with the age at which you first saw it? I could see being enthralled with the Phantom Menace lightsaber duel at the age of five or so.

Most likely, I was a Star Wars fan before you were born. I'm sorry that it didn't work for you, but I quite enjoyed it. The duels in the OT have always been pretty 'meh' for me, although ROTJ's duel was a vast improvement.

Luke in RotJ just going full rage mode on Darth Vader is one of the defining moments of Star Wars for me. Nothing in the prequels even comes close to touching that. Plus, I've trained in swordsmanship (Japanese and European) pretty much my whole life. So, the prequel fights didn't do much for me. Too much flash, not enough kill. Now Akira Kurosawa, there was a man who knew how to choreograph a sword duel.

Edited by Nightshrike

The only lightsaber battle from the prequels I value is the fight between Dooku, Obi Wan and Anakin from Episode II. Obi Wan knows Dooku overpowers them so he is stalling him, Dooku is playing with Obi Wan and Anakin. Even when Anakin finally starts to fight, it feels for a moment that his natural abilities will be enough but arent. It shows that Anakin is too sure of himself but still has to learn stuff (that and the lightning blocking stuff).

It even has the nice bit of the lightsabers in the dark lighting their faces.

Its the only lightsaber fight that shows characters, not choreography.

But the fight is spoiled by not having good characters to begin with and with the Yoda Dooku fight that doesnt serve for anything at all. It doesnt say anything about Dooku or Yoda. It would have been much more awesome if a slow walking Yoda arrived and Dooku was simply afraid of him and run away. Showing that Dooku knows where real power is, and it is not in lightsaber fighting.

Edited by melminiatures

I like the anime style fights where two swordsmen charge each other, and it's like 1 strike, and you don't know who's dead....

I practiced based on 15th century german fechtbuch codi myself. I have two swords - full tang, battle ready. a 15th century style german hand and a half sword, named subtlety, and a 11th century viking style sword named tact.

Mel, you had me in hysterics at my desk there.

Yeah, I think fundamentally you have to like, or at least identify with the characters in order for fight scenes to matter. You have to be tricked into caring about the outcome through the rest of the story. That didn't happen for me in any of the prequels. And yet, JJ Abrams did that for me in Star Trek: Into Darkness, and I'm not a huge trek fan.

Yeah, I think fundamentally you have to like, or at least identify with the characters in order for fight scenes to matter. You have to be tricked into caring about the outcome through the rest of the story. That didn't happen for me in any of the prequels. And yet, JJ Abrams did that for me in Star Trek: Into Darkness, and I'm not a huge trek fan.

Into Darkness was a Star Wars film in star trek clothing...

I like the anime style fights where two swordsmen charge each other, and it's like 1 strike, and you don't know who's dead....

I practiced based on 15th century german fechtbuch codi myself. I have two swords - full tang, battle ready. a 15th century style german hand and a half sword, named subtlety, and a 11th century viking style sword named tact.

Mel, you had me in hysterics at my desk there.

Nice. I'm close friends with a lot of the guys in Europe working on swordsmanship, like Matt Easton of Schola Gladiatoria, who has a raging good youtube channel now. I did kendo for quite a while, Euro sport fencing, and then most of my focus has been on 19th century saber and singlestick fencing.