When can the sensors be applied? Is it before showing the dial but after the decloak or before both?

Decloaking and Advanced Sensors have the same trigger (before revealing the dial) so you choose the order for them.

Keep in mind though that the FAQ says that you can't decloak and then immediately recloak with AS, and vice versa (you can't cloak with AS and then immediately decloak)

ok thanks

Keep in mind though that the FAQ says that you can't decloak and then immediately recloak with AS, and vice versa (you can't cloak with AS and then immediately decloak)

Here is the quote from the FAQ: "If a TIE Phantom uses Advanced Sensors to perform a cloak action, it cannot immediately decloak." there is no mention of the "vice versa" being against the rules.

You certainly could Cloak after Decloaking. There is nothing stopping you from doing so if you did not have Advanced Sensors so having AS doesn't change anything.

I believe the reason you can't Cloak using AS and the Decloak is because the 'trigger' for decloaking has already passed. If you weren't cloaked when the "before you reveal your maneuver dial" trigger happened you aren't able to decloak.

StevenO is correct.

My question is the following:

When a Phantom with Advanced Sensors and a cloak token activates, it can both use Adv.Sensors and decloak before performing it's maneuver. When does the player need to decide which order these are performed in, and which action and decloak direction they are using?

Can the player:

Use AdvS to attempt a TL, to know if something is in range before decloaking? (hypothetically, since phantoms can't TL)

Use AdvS to attempt a Barrel roll, see that it doesn't fit, decide to decloak and then use adv.sensors for a focus?

Attempt a decloak, realize it doesn't fit, use AS to barrel roll, then decloak?

Use AS to attempt a Barrel Roll, then decide to decloak or not?

The touchy part being that the trigger for decloaking and AS is before either of them resolve, so can you use one before deciding to use the other?

Edit: As DR4CO pointed out in another, unrelated thread, you don't make a decision about AS or decloak until you start resolving their effects. Therefore you can wait for the result of one before deciding to use the other.

My question still stands though: can you try to use AS/decloak, realize it doesn't work, do the other, then come back and use the one you attempted initially?

Edit2: Ninja'd by DR4CO himself!

You get to resolve the effects in any order you want, and neither has an impact on the other. So options one and four are definitely okay.

What is a little unclear is whether you can back out all the way from one and put it back on the "queue", so to speak, while you do the other, or if you're now committed to resolving it in some way (even if it's to decide against using it) now that you've made your choice. I don't know about that one...

You get to resolve the effects in any order you want, and neither has an impact on the other. So options one and four are definitely okay.

What is a little unclear is whether you can back out all the way from one and put it back on the "queue", so to speak, while you do the other, or if you're now committed to resolving it in some way (even if it's to decide against using it) now that you've made your choice. I don't know about that one...

Hehe, exactly what I just added in my edit

You get to resolve the effects in any order you want, and neither has an impact on the other. So options one and four are definitely okay.

What is a little unclear is whether you can back out all the way from one and put it back on the "queue", so to speak, while you do the other, or if you're now committed to resolving it in some way (even if it's to decide against using it) now that you've made your choice. I don't know about that one...

If you declare a decloak or barrel roll and your ship would overlap another ship or obstacle then barrel roll action or decloak is not possible and you are free to make another action or attempt to decloak the opposite direction.

There is no "queue".

With that being said, you are obligated to see if any barrel roll/decloak is possible on the side that you choose.

Of course this is only true with the competitive rules.

You get to resolve the effects in any order you want, and neither has an impact on the other. So options one and four are definitely okay.

What is a little unclear is whether you can back out all the way from one and put it back on the "queue", so to speak, while you do the other, or if you're now committed to resolving it in some way (even if it's to decide against using it) now that you've made your choice. I don't know about that one...

If you declare a decloak or barrel roll and your ship would overlap another ship or obstacle then barrel roll action or decloak is not possible and you are free to make another action or attempt to decloak the opposite direction.

There is no "queue".

With that being said, you are obligated to see if any barrel roll/decloak is possible on the side that you choose.

Of course this is only true with the competitive rules.

We know all this.

We know you can do the following:

• Trigger Advanced Sensors
• Attempt a Barrel Roll Action
• Realize that my ship doesn't fit
• Perform a Focus Action
• Decloak

This is clear, because the rules state that you can perform a different action if you can't complete your barrel roll (or if your TL target is out of range).

What isn't clear is if you can back out completely of having activated Advanced Sensors.

In other words, can you do the following:

• Trigger Advanced Sensors
• Attempt a Barrel Roll
• Realized that my ship doesn't fit
• Decloak
• Trigger Advanced Sensors (again)
• Perform an action (cloak, focus or barrel roll)

What isn't clear is if you can back out completely of having activated Advanced Sensors.

In other words, can you do the following:

• Trigger Advanced Sensors
• Attempt a Barrel Roll
• Realized that my ship doesn't fit
• Decloak
• Trigger Advanced Sensors (again)
• Perform an action (cloak, focus or barrel roll)

From the FAQ:

Q: If a player has multiple effects that resolve at the same

time, can he resolve them in any order?

A: Yes.

If your attempt to barrel roll was not able to be completed, I don't see anything that says you can't then decide resolve the decloak before barrel rolling with advanced sensors.

In your example you never "backed out" of using advanced sensors you just changed the order you resolved the barrel roll & decloak.

The question I ask you is:

If you declare that you use Advanced Sensors and then decide not to, did you use Advanced Sensors to pass on your action?

The closest thing we have to his is the relatively recent ruling that if Dutch gives a TL to an ally that turns out to not be able to lock the target they want, Dutch can pick someone else to take the TL.

There's pretty much nothing in X-wing that locks you in to a failed action. The timing rules for such things aren't defined, but the vast weight of precedent is that if you do something that grants an action (Dutch, AdvS, Squad Leader, etc) and it doesn't work, you roll back the whole ability.

The closest thing we have to his is the relatively recent ruling that if Dutch gives a TL to an ally that turns out to not be able to lock the target they want, Dutch can pick someone else to take the TL.

There's pretty much nothing in X-wing that locks you in to a failed action. The timing rules for such things aren't defined, but the vast weight of precedent is that if you do something that grants an action (Dutch, AdvS, Squad Leader, etc) and it doesn't work, you roll back the whole ability.

But what about passing on your action? It is a valid choice in the rulebook.

I'm not trying to start an argument, sometimes it just happens.

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking there... Do you want to use AdvS to pass? I'm not sure if that's legal, but I'm not sure why it would matter.

If you're asking if you be forced to pass if you couldn't complete the action you wanted, I think the answer is no. Again, a failure doesn't seem to just go up one step, it rolls back the ability that initiated the action, and you can choose to retrigger it if you want.

If you declare that you use Advanced Sensors and then decide not to, did you use Advanced Sensors to pass on your action?

Advanced Sensors states the following:

Immediately before you reveal your maneuver, you may perform 1 free action.

• Advanced Sensors resolve (it does so every round)
  • I attempt a Target Lock that fails
  • I instead decide to not perform 1 free action
  • The second part of Advanced Sensors doesn't resolve since I didn't perform an action
  • I have now finished resolving Advanced Sensors
• Reveal Dial
• ...
• Perform Action
• ...

Here's the question I'm asking, in a more detailed step-by-step. Can I do the following:

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking there... Do you want to use AdvS to pass? I'm not sure if that's legal ...

It seems legal to me.

"Pass" is a legal action, available to all ships. It is not in the action bar (PTL) and not on an upgrade card (EI), but I cannot find anything that prevents "pass" with AdvS.

If you're asking if you be forced to pass if you couldn't complete the action you wanted, I think the answer is no.

Definitely "no".

If you declare that you use Advanced Sensors and then decide not to, did you use Advanced Sensors to pass on your action?

Advanced Sensors states the following:

Immediately before you reveal your maneuver, you may perform 1 free action.

If you use this ability, you must skip your "Perform action" step during this round.

Technically, Advanced Sensors activates every single turn "before you reveal your maneuver".

It's just that you sometimes choose to not "perform 1 free action", since there's a "may" clause.

You're right Klutz my line of thinking was wrong, I keep getting hung up on Advanced Sensors as something that needs to be delared to use and it doesn't. And if I delare an action, I'll follow through with it even if it's an obvious bad choice.

In the past I have played it (and allowed it to be played) such that if the barrel roll fails, then to resolve the decloak and then the use of advanced sensors.

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking there... Do you want to use AdvS to pass? I'm not sure if that's legal ...

It seems legal to me.

"Pass" is a legal action, available to all ships. It is not in the action bar (PTL) and not on an upgrade card (EI), but I cannot find anything that prevents "pass" with AdvS.

Rulebook says:

A ship may pass, choosing not to perform any action.

I'm not sure Pass is actually an action. I think you can choose to pass, which means you don't do an action, but I don't think Pass is a valid action for something like Advanced Sensors.

It's super-academic, because I don't know why you'd want to use Advanced Sensors to pass, but I think that's the technical reading.

It's super-academic, because I don't know why you'd want to use Advanced Sensors to pass, but I think that's the technical reading.

This is convoluted and ridiculous but...

Keyan Farlander with Experimental Interface, Advanced Sensors and a Damaged Sensor Array face up damage card.

Keyan is going to overlap with his maneuver, so won't get to perform an action unless he uses Advanced Sensors.

Keyan want a stress token to use as a focus.

Therefore, he does the following (assuming "Pass" is an action):

• Advanced Sensors to perform a "Pass" Action
• Trigger Experimental Interface
• Attempt to flip Damaged Sensor Array face down Can't do this, you can't us EI for crits.
• Receive stress from Experimental Interface

Of course, having Experimental Interface and nothing to use it on other than crits is dumb.

I guess he could also have Expose and an Injured Pilot face up damage card.

But then he wouldn't want a stress, since he's lost his stress-as-a-focus ability.

Could also work with Ibtisam, since he could also conceivably WANT a stress.

Experimental interface can't be used on crits. The action has to be on an upgrade card, damage card actions are not allowed.

Experimental interface can't be used on crits. The action has to be on an upgrade card, damage card actions are not allowed.

Darn it.

Ok, ok, I got this.

• Keyan Farlander with Experimental Interface and Expose.
• Keyan has already Focuses (Lando gave him a free action).
• Keyan can't / doesn't want to barrel roll (obstacles, mines, other ships, positioning, etc.).
• Keyan can't Target Lock (already has TL on only ship in range or there are no ships in range).
• Keyan will not get to perform an action after his maneuver (he'll overlap another ship and/or fly over an obstacle).
  
• Keyan uses Advanced Sensors to perform a "Pass" Action.
• Trigger Experiemental Interface to use Expose.
• Receives stress from Experimental Interface.
  
• Soontir Fel now moves into Keyan's firing arc and gets shot at with a Target Locked, focused, 4 dice attack.
• Rebel player wins the game.

Bazinga!

Well, congrats on the corneriest corner case I've seen in a while So it might, potentially, in a really screwy world, matter.

Pass says "A ship may pass, choosing not to perform any action.". Emphasis mine. Pass is not an action - pass is a choice not to take an action.