TIE phantom's useless if you want an ion weapon, no good taking a VT-49 if you want to dodge arcs, Falcon's terrible at blocking.

While you are right about Phatoms and Ions, I think you are missing the mark with those other two. A VY-49 with PTL, Ysane Isard, and Engine Upgrade makes an awesome arc dodger and an ORS is a great blocker.

A PTL VT-49 has a very limited dial, and even if it does boost the boost will only take it so far. That 11 points of upgrades improves its arc dodging ability but it's not exactly playing the Vader or Fel game.

I don't count ORS as a Falcon. It's a YT-1300, certainly, but not a Falcon. TBH it plays like another ship entirely. The lowest pilot skill on the Falcon is 5.

best to worst ship list, does it exist?

Absolutely not, and such a mentality will harm your skill in the long run. Power is absolutely not linear.

There are a few ships that are seen to be kinda weak at their intended role but every single ship in the game has its own role to play and those roles are not the same. TIE phantom's useless if you want an ion weapon, no good taking a VT-49 if you want to dodge arcs, Falcon's terrible at blocking.

MajorJuggler's jousting values are a measure of that, jousting. They're how a ship does if it parks opposite an opposing ship, doesn't move ever and they sink dice into each other. They're not a measure of the quality of a ship, they're a measure of how much a ship needs to get back in its other abilities and strengths.

Im late to the party but exactly this ^^^^

Everything is 'situational'.

The 'best ship' depends on so many variables.

Mostly, what is it flying against and who are you flying against.

Abilities that are great against one players build and style can be totally useless against anothers.

4 basic B wings are for example very good against anything slow with a lot of hit points and where you expect to be in a slugging match. Far less good if you're up against some very fast nippy ships that run rings around you and perhaps only do one or two points of damage to you a turn but prove impossible for you to get in arc.

When i worked at GW people would always ask 'what is the best army' and the answer was the same, it depends on your playing style, your opponents (and what they have chosen) , the terrain you're playing on (less of an issue with xwing, but still a variable, if you never use asteroids than less manouvreable ships become better and unshielded ships dont risk a crippling critical from flying into one).

I currently work in the airsoft shooting combat games hobby and again people ask 'whats the best gun'... that depends on your build, your style of play, your local sites terrain/playstyle etc.

If there was a 'best ship' then you'd go into your gaming store and never see it in stock and the racks would be full of everything else, as it happens the game is pretty well balances and i know here some people will be enraged and insist that 'ship x' has broken the game .. oddly in the two years ive been playing i've seen about eight different things be accused of breaking the game, usually something new as it takes time to work out an effective counter strategy whereas the offensive attributes are usually obvous and what the designers 'sell' to you. They dont go 'hey buy this ship, it can be beaten by X, Y & z though!'

There are one or two ships (and i mean litterally one or two) that are perhaps harder to get the best out of but nearly every ship has its niche. many of the ships disliked dont excell in the 100 point, 6 rock deathmatch.

Things like TIE bombers though are pretty **** good in epic games with 300 - 400 points a side and capital ships to take out!

if you don't bring counters it's an autoloss

I don't buy it. There are some matchups that are incredibly difficult, but I'm struggling to think of a squad that uses all 100 points that is outright unable kill a TIE phantom.

Green dice turn.

My friend Rob is a *good* player. He wins UK store tournaments etc.

I've killed his phantoms twice now using XXYY lists and spreading arcs out and a modicum of luck.

The phantom is not some bogeyman....

Half of the battle is not psychologically losing the game before you start by being *literally* stressed by seeing whisper, VI and ACD across the table from you.

Frankly anyone claiming phantoms are an autowin unit really need to take a good long look at their playstyle because it's a four hit ship as susceptible to rolling blanks as any other it can die to anything other ships do.

Worst ship = Phantom.

The ship that wrecked the Meta, is unusable against new players (if you want them to play again) and stirred up a bucket of hate for Han Solo! (as the Falcon got kitted out as a counter to the OP Phantom).

Best Ship = Anything from the original Trilogy.

This is kind of true. My friend played maybe his 3rd game against someone running a Phantom. So noob against an experienced player running a Phantom. The first two games were against me and I flew less than stellar lists to kind of ease him in. Well after getting wrecked by the Phantom, he hasn't wanted to play since. From his limited experience he basically thought the ship was broken and from his experience un-killable. That is an outsider looking in, but that was his impression. I told him that their where counters to it, but I don't think there is getting the bad taste out of his mouth.

Frankly anyone claiming phantoms are an autowin unit really need to take a good long look at their playstyle because it's a four hit ship as susceptible to rolling blanks as any other it can die to anything other ships do.

never rely on green dice to do anything

I don't care if it's saving your **** or failing the opponent, you can't ever depend on them

which is why you always bring a phantom counter. There are several of them and all of them are good against things that aren't that phantom (Vader also rips apart all low-shield ships, ion is deadly against small bases, stress **** everyone over...) so there's really no reason not to bring some

but of course, just having to counter the phantom doesn't make it the best ship. It's hardly ideal when your high 30s-low 40s ship gets eviscerated because your opponent brought something that can deal with it

TIE phantom's useless if you want an ion weapon, no good taking a VT-49 if you want to dodge arcs, Falcon's terrible at blocking.

While you are right about Phatoms and Ions, I think you are missing the mark with those other two. A VY-49 with PTL, Ysane Isard, and Engine Upgrade makes an awesome arc dodger and an ORS is a great blocker.

A PTL VT-49 has a very limited dial, and even if it does boost the boost will only take it so far. That 11 points of upgrades improves its arc dodging ability but it's not exactly playing the Vader or Fel game.

I don't count ORS as a Falcon. It's a YT-1300, certainly, but not a Falcon. TBH it plays like another ship entirely. The lowest pilot skill on the Falcon is 5.

No matter its Pilot Skill, the Decimator can boost after all of the other ships have moved, it doesn't need to worry about its own arc when arc dodging, and a boost on a large ship covers a large amount of distance. It's debateable whether the Decimator ends up on Fel's level but it does end up being one of the better arc dodgers in the game.

Frankly anyone claiming phantoms are an autowin unit really need to take a good long look at their playstyle because it's a four hit ship as susceptible to rolling blanks as any other it can die to anything other ships do.

They don't tend to blank out with a free defensive focus and 4 agility dice and the ability to move wherever the hell it wants and dodge all of my arcs. There are arc dodging ships, and then there is the phantom. With an advanced sensors 2 distance barrel roll or boost before it moves it is worlds ahead of soontir or turr phennir.

Against a PtL Interceptor with stealth device and autothrusters, eventually you'll plink the stealth device and get some damage through, and when you bump soontir it's actually a perilous situation for him and not just, " *shrug* I guess I'll just decloak the other way then." Soontir doesn't get a 2 distance barrel roll before he moves every turn, he actually has to move normally.

Let's see... I don't know about a best to worst list, but I could classify ships into three categories

The First category would be metagame defining ships. These are ships that you must have a plan for when going into a tournament, or they will walk all over you.

Millenium Falcon, TIE Phantom

The second catgory would be "strong" ships. These ships are very competitive, but they don't warp the metagame in quite the same way.

Y-wing, Tie Fighter Tie Advanced with Fix, Slave I, Tie Interceptor, A-wing, Lambda Shuttle, B-wing, Z-95, YT-2400, Decimator, M-3A Scyk, Aggressor (This one might end up becoming metagame defining, but Scum is still too new for us to know.

The third category would be "fringe" ships. These ships aren't necessarily bad, and certainly can find a home in competitive lists, but they generally only have a few really strong builds.

X-wing, HWK-290, Tie Bomber, Tie Defender, E-wing, Starviper, Tie Advanced without X/1 Title, Generic Yt-1300

The Defender, X-wing, and maybe E-wing are all good quality ships. X-wings are still extremely common, and the Defender is a monster. Haven't played Scum yet, so I don't know anything about the StarViper

My friend Rob is a *good* player. He wins UK store tournaments etc.

I've killed his phantoms twice now using XXYY lists and spreading arcs out and a modicum of luck.

The phantom is not some bogeyman....

Half of the battle is not psychologically losing the game before you start by being *literally* stressed by seeing whisper, VI and ACD across the table from you.

Good man winning with the alleged underperforming ships of the game. I completely agree about the psychological part of the battle as well. Phantoms aren't actually that powerful.

Worst ship = Phantom.

The ship that wrecked the Meta, is unusable against new players (if you want them to play again) and stirred up a bucket of hate for Han Solo! (as the Falcon got kitted out as a counter to the OP Phantom).

Best Ship = Anything from the original Trilogy.

People still believe this? Dang I've been gone longer than I thought I have.

I do agree with the "Phantom unusable against new players" bit. They're usually still in the "thinking one move ahead" phase, learning how their own ships move and what the pilots/abilities/ships do. Putting a new player against a ship that literally requires you to think two moves ahead every turn is a bad idea. If anything, I would probably let them be the ones to fly it while I fly something more casual.

I don't think the ship is that broken or difficult to counter, but I'm a firm believer in baby steps when teaching this game. Named Phantoms (along with loaded Double IG88s, or Fat Hans) are firmly in the deep end of the pool.

The X wing itself is a meh ship in comparison to the b wing that costs a single point more, but the X Wing has some of the best pilot abilities in the game while the b wing has meh ones that aren't really worth it. So I feel the X wing doesn't need a buff.

Defender is overpriced by quite a lot. For ~25 points I'd be comfortable flying one. For 30, meh. Half the problem is that the super phantom is so good for its value that by the time I slap an hlc on the defender or go for a named one I could just have a super phantom instead of a wonky ship that is only good at doing 3 turns, 4k's, and 5 straights and doesn't get 15 free actions every turn.

E wings blow, but super corran is invincible in 60 minute rounds if flown right. Etahn is a little meh, apparently amazing for epic when you're boosting 300 points with his ability. The generic E wings are trash wings though, overpriced slightly better variants of generic x wings which are already a tad bit overpriced.

Generic starvipers are decent. They're actually reasonably priced in comparison to the generic E wings or defenders.

Let's see... I don't know about a best to worst list, but I could classify ships into three categories

The First category would be metagame defining ships. These are ships that you must have a plan for when going into a tournament, or they will walk all over you.

Millenium Falcon, TIE Phantom

The second catgory would be "strong" ships. These ships are very competitive, but they don't warp the metagame in quite the same way.

Y-wing, Tie Fighter Tie Advanced with Fix, Slave I, Tie Interceptor, A-wing, Lambda Shuttle, B-wing, Z-95, YT-2400, Decimator, M-3A Scyk, Aggressor (This one might end up becoming metagame defining, but Scum is still too new for us to know.

The third category would be "fringe" ships. These ships aren't necessarily bad, and certainly can find a home in competitive lists, but they generally only have a few really strong builds.

X-wing, HWK-290, Tie Bomber, Tie Defender, E-wing, Starviper, Tie Advanced without X/1 Title, Generic Yt-1300

The Defender, X-wing, and maybe E-wing are all good quality ships. X-wings are still extremely common, and the Defender is a monster. Haven't played Scum yet, so I don't know anything about the StarViper

I can't really say about the generics. Two with auto-thrusters suffered terribly in the only game I used them, but that's because they had the worst dice I've ever seen (four focus defense on a range 3 shot...)

Guri and Xizor are mosnters, though. Guri's more reasonably priced and self-sufficient while Xizor's pretty dang near impossible to shoot while he's got a meatshield lackey nearby. People will prioritize the more easily damaged Ys or Zs than the prince basically every time.

"Defender is overpriced by quite a lot. For ~25 points I'd be comfortable flying one. For 30, meh. Half the problem is that the super phantom is so good for its value that by the time I slap an hlc on the defender or go for a named one I could just have a super phantom instead of a wonky ship that is only good at doing 3 turns, 4k's, and 5 straights and doesn't get 15 free actions every turn."

Have you actually ever flown one or are you just parroting the naysayers?

Defender is overpriced by quite a lot. For ~25 points I'd be comfortable flying one. For 30, meh. Half the problem is that the super phantom is so good for its value that by the time I slap an hlc on the defender or go for a named one I could just have a super phantom instead of a wonky ship that is only good at doing 3 turns, 4k's, and 5 straights and doesn't get 15 free actions every turn.

You should try a 3xDelta+Ion Cannon list. Lots of fun, and quite strong. Last time I flew it, I wiped a BEE list, and only lost three (total) shields.

Defenders are delicious

While their jousting value is garbage and the dial is imo unduely limited, it is actually the best jouster in the game. It is the only ship short of adrenaline rush or wingman that can K-turn turn after turn after turn... which gives it the ability to joust indefinitely while the opponent cannot. Stack a control cannon on top of that, and the opponent won't be able to joust...at all

It's a limited ship, but it's also incredibly lovely and well-rounded (but who could see that coming with those 3/3/3/3 stats?)

I assume my green dice will never work, and I assume my opponent will roll evades with all of his, and I do my very best to fly accordingly (whether that's staying out of arc whenever I can, piling on as many attack dice as possible, etc).

"Defender is overpriced by quite a lot. For ~25 points I'd be comfortable flying one. For 30, meh. Half the problem is that the super phantom is so good for its value that by the time I slap an hlc on the defender or go for a named one I could just have a super phantom instead of a wonky ship that is only good at doing 3 turns, 4k's, and 5 straights and doesn't get 15 free actions every turn."

Have you actually ever flown one or are you just parroting the naysayers?

I've flown 3 with 3 stealth devices before. It's a tolerable list against anything of normal firepower but against a phantom it can do nothing. If they could boost it'd be a step in the right direction. This is supposed to be a fast moving ship that sits around some installation and defends things, aka an interceptor. It has a 5 green, it should be able to boost.

The red on the dial is annoying, but that's not really what I'm complaining about. When I complain about the Defender and how annoying it is to fly, it's more that it's so expensive and annoying. If it was more reasonably priced I'd be fine even with all the red.

"Defender is overpriced by quite a lot. For ~25 points I'd be comfortable flying one. For 30, meh. Half the problem is that the super phantom is so good for its value that by the time I slap an hlc on the defender or go for a named one I could just have a super phantom instead of a wonky ship that is only good at doing 3 turns, 4k's, and 5 straights and doesn't get 15 free actions every turn."

Have you actually ever flown one or are you just parroting the naysayers?

I've flown 3 with 3 stealth devices before. It's a tolerable list against anything of normal firepower but against a phantom it can do nothing.

So you didn't even try to use the cannon mount that makes them so deadly, but your ready to label them bad.

Go back try them with ions or flechette cannons to see what that 4k turn is for.

"Defender is overpriced by quite a lot. For ~25 points I'd be comfortable flying one. For 30, meh. Half the problem is that the super phantom is so good for its value that by the time I slap an hlc on the defender or go for a named one I could just have a super phantom instead of a wonky ship that is only good at doing 3 turns, 4k's, and 5 straights and doesn't get 15 free actions every turn."

Have you actually ever flown one or are you just parroting the naysayers?

I've flown 3 with 3 stealth devices before. It's a tolerable list against anything of normal firepower but against a phantom it can do nothing.

So you didn't even try to use the cannon mount that makes them so deadly, but your ready to label them bad.

Go back try them with ions or flechette cannons to see what that 4k turn is for.

Yeah, with the release of the Flechette Cannon I want to try it out.

3x Delta, one with Ion Cannon, one with HLC, one naked?

"Defender is overpriced by quite a lot. For ~25 points I'd be comfortable flying one. For 30, meh. Half the problem is that the super phantom is so good for its value that by the time I slap an hlc on the defender or go for a named one I could just have a super phantom instead of a wonky ship that is only good at doing 3 turns, 4k's, and 5 straights and doesn't get 15 free actions every turn."

Have you actually ever flown one or are you just parroting the naysayers?

I've flown 3 with 3 stealth devices before. It's a tolerable list against anything of normal firepower but against a phantom it can do nothing.

So you didn't even try to use the cannon mount that makes them so deadly, but your ready to label them bad.

Go back try them with ions or flechette cannons to see what that 4k turn is for.

Defenders are almost an auto-include for me in any imperial list. (then again, when anybody talks trash about a ship, it makes me want to fly it all the more), but the Defender is the most underrated ship in the game. It doesn't have turns because it doesn't to turn.

To be fair, I'd be absolutely head over heels if the Defender could hard turn at 1-2 without stressing itself

stress isn't the end of the world because the crafty bastards can k-turn regardless, but it still kind of bites not being able to perform actions. Well, it's a trade off to keep in mind in case you ever need to utilize the best maneuver in the game (god knows I've had to, but fortunately the nature of the flechette and ion cannons mitigates the loss of action against low agility ships because you only need a single hit to get through)