Latest edits were put in a new post below-

Topics in other threads made me scrawl several pages of notes. Most of it was rejected. Here are a few nuggets I'm thinking of. Please evaluate:

Problem : Due to fragility of starfighters, a skilled Pilot can be knocked out of the fight in one hit at the start of a fight if he loses Initiative.

A Pilot may take Evasive Maneuvers (if qualified to) before the fight starts if not surprised. The GM may require a Sensors and/or Perception check.

Narrative: The pilot noticed the incoming attack and immediately reacted with evasive maneuvers before the first shots are landed.

Problem : Skilled pilots in small, maneuverable craft are just as easy to kill as rookie pilots in the same craft.

Evasive Maneuvers is directly affected by Pilot skill and craft Handling. Add Pilot skill to Handling then divide by 3, rounding up. The result is the number of upgrades to attack difficulty vs the craft when using Evasive Maneuvers. If 0 or less, the pilot doesn’t have the skill to do such maneuvers in this craft.

Examples: A pilot of skill 2 in a Z-95 (handling +1) would get the usual 1 upgrade to attacks versus. The same pilot in a TIE fighter (handling +3) would get 2 upgrades (2+3 /3 round up to 2). The same pilot would have just enough skill to pull evasive maneuvers in a YT-1300 (handling -1 = 2-1 /3 round up to 1).

If you don't like the math, it's a simple chart like many others in EotE. If the number of upgrades is not enough, consider Pilot+Handling /2 round up.

I think this max's out at 3 upgrades? A skill 6 Pilot in a +3 Handling craft is the best you can do?

Not sure about the next one. It may not be needed. Just a random thought when I came up with the others:

The benefits of a positive Handling score (to any task) are limited by the craft’s current speed. Example: A pilot in a TIE fighter (handling +3) at Speed 2 would only have +2 handling.

Problem : Gain the Advantage is almost as easy versus a rookie pilot as versus an ace and difficulty is based upon craft speed instead of pilot skill or craft maneuverability.

Gain the Advantage is a Competitive check involving Pilot skills.

I thought about competitive checks for GtA at the start of the turn (before initiative) for all ships involved in a Dogfight. This would give a pecking order to who is in whose rear arc and influence a pilots decision as to evade, stayon target, or angle defector shields based on who was in his/her six.

The thing to remember about starfighters is that they don't go into combat alone, they enter combat as part of a larger group. So if one fighter gets taken out (note that exceeding the Hull trauma threshold doesn't mean it's destroyed, only inoperable) the rest of the group picks up the slack. And what about the disabled fighter? Well, since the pilot doesn't have anything else to do on his next turn, with his ship being disabled and all, he might as well make a Mechanics check to perform the Combat Repairs action, get his Hull trauma back below the threshold and rejoin the fight when no one is looking at him.

I think this max's out at 3 upgrades? A skill 6 Pilot in a +3 Handling craft is the best you can do?

I don’t think you can go higher than five ranks of skill as a pilot.

I think this max's out at 3 upgrades? A skill 6 Pilot in a +3 Handling craft is the best you can do?

I don’t think you can go higher than five ranks of skill as a pilot.

You're correct. I was thinking the limit was 6, but found the RAW entry.

Instead of repeatedly re-editing the top entry, here is my latest version. I left out the minor stuff and just left the more important house rules for discussion:

Problem : Due to fragility of the craft, a skilled Pilot can be knocked out of the fight in one hit at the start of a fight if he loses Initiative.

A Pilot may take Evasive Maneuvers before the fight starts if not surprised. The GM may require a Sensors and/or Perception check.

Problem : Skilled pilots in small, maneuverable craft are just as easy to kill as rookie pilots in the same craft. Two solutions:

1) Evasive Maneuvers does not upgrade attacks but instead adds difficulty and is directly affected by Pilot skill and vessel Handling. Add Pilot skill to Handling then divide by 3, rounding up. The result is the number of upgrades to attack difficulty versus the vessel when using Evasive Maneuvers. If 0 or less, the pilot doesn’t have the skill to do such maneuvers in this craft. Skilled Minions are treated as Skill 1 regardless of numbers.

EVASIVE MANEUVERS DIFFICULTY BONUS

Skill + Handling total:

Negative to 0 = None

1 to 3 = 1D

4 to 6 = 2D

7 or more = 3D

Examples : A pilot of skill 2 in a Z-95 (handling +1) would increase attack difficulty by 2D when using Evasive Maneuvers. The same pilot in a TIE fighter (handling +3) would gain 2D. The same pilot would have just enough skill to pull evasive maneuvers in a YT-1300 (handling -1) for a 1D increase. A group of TIE minions (handling +3) trained in Pilot would gain 2D.

2) Gain the Advantage is a Competitive check using Pilot skills.

I am keeping a close eye on this discussion (and others like it) as my group has become unhappy with how space combat works and I would like to tweak it a bit. The gripe (and I think a reasonable one) is that the pilot's skill does not affect being hit so yeah, I am liking what I am seeing in this thread as a potential solution.

Sturn, do you envisage ranks of Skilled Jockey being used to offset the Handling negative (if any) when calculating Evasive Maneuvers?

Sturn, do you envisage ranks of Skilled Jockey being used to offset the Handling negative (if any) when calculating Evasive Maneuvers?

I had never really gotten that far yet (looking into any problems with talents). I suppose you could interpret it either way to your liking. In normal use a -1 handling is a Setback to a Pilot roll. When determining EMs difficulty bonus, the -1 is just part of an equation. Up to you as the GM I would think.

I like where you are taking this Sturn. I would add that the GtA competitive piloting check includes handling dice (pg 234 EotE).

what about a ship with crappy handling going evasive? like an AT-AT or HT 2200? would make it easier to hit? now we have to do math?

Hard enough to remember to add setback dice for shields sometimes.

I am more then willing to keep the rules as is.

As I have said before in NUMEROUS threads:
Don't expect to win a 1v1 without brilliant evasion.

If you want to increase survivability of paper mache Star fighters use the Squadron rules to add bullet sponges. This is NOT Jedi Star fighter, or Rogue Squadron, or a scrolling shooter, when it is you against a million zillion droid fighters

Version 3 burglarizing Doc from the other thread. I think I will be using this in-game and see how it goes:

Problem : Due to fragility of the craft, a skilled Pilot can be knocked out of the fight in one hit at the start of a fight if he loses Initiative.

A Pilot may take Evasive Maneuvers before the fight starts if not surprised. The GM may require a Sensors and/or Perception check.

Problem : Skilled pilots in small, maneuverable craft are just as easy to kill as rookie pilots in the same craft.

Create an “advanced” Evasive Maneuvers which requires higher Pilot skill to perform while giving a bonus for positive handling.

Advanced Evasive Maneuvers

Pilot Only : Yes

Silhouette : 1-3

Piloting skill : 2+

Speed : 3+

Executing an Advanced Evasive Maneuvers increases the difficulty twice for all attacks made against the ship as well as increasing a ship's defense by it's handling until the end of the pilot’s next turn. While this makes the ship executing the starship maneuver harder to hit, it also makes it harder for the ship executing the starship maneuver to hit anything else. Executing Advanced Evasive Maneuvers likewise upgrades the difficulty of the dice pool once for all attacks made by the ship until the end of the pilot’s next turn. Evasive Maneuvers can only be undertaken by ships or vehicles of silhouette 3 or lower, piloted by characters with an appropriate Piloting skill (Space or Planetary) of 3 or greater. This maneuver is treated as Evasive Maneuvers for purposes of talents, maneuvers, or actions (such as Gain the Advantage).

Problem : Gain the Advantage is almost as easy versus a rookie pilot as versus an ace and difficulty is based upon craft speed instead of pilot skill or craft maneuverability.

Gain the Advantage is a Competitive check using Pilot skills.

Gain the Advantage really seems like it would work more cinematically as an opposed check, with an increase or decrease of difficulty based on the ships' relative speeds.

Also, in another discussion the topic of advantages from initiative was brought up. I like the idea of being able to spend two advantage from the initiative roll to begin the combat with a pilot performing Evasive Maneuvers.