Now that Armada is on the verge of being released, I am starting to get more excited in playing Armada, and less so about the pending release of the Imperial Raider.

Part of it may be economics, but I really think Armada is going to kill epic x-wing play. I am not being a downer, but very few people in my area seem to want to play epic. I hope Armada does not kill off epic play, and maybe I need to get the LGS to advertise an epic game night. Also considering most of us have enough SW X-wing ships to play in most Epic games, people should be dyeing to play epic.

Its also probably the lack of time as my game schedule is starting to fill, just no more time to play. Armada, X-wing and X-wing Epic, now that's a lot of gaming, while also trying to get in DMing.

Anyone feel differently or the same? How are you juggling these games?

In my area, gameplay seems mostly structured around standard 100pnt X-Wing. People make noise about wanting to play epic, but people don't tend to bring out their huge ships, because it's (safely) assumed that standard matches are going to be what is going to happen. Armada may suffer the same fate.

I think it's going to take an act of cajoling to move my people from the standard game, though they seem relatively open to epic, should it present itself. With the Raider not out there yet, I don't think it's worthwhile to start that cajoling. I will certainly do so with Armada, once I get it into my clutches, but until (if) it catches on, I think it's going to be a sideshow to X-Wing.

Ultimately, what I would like to achieve is for there to be a narrative overarching game that helps set the scene for Armada, X-Wing as well as X-Wing epic, which 'surrounds us, and binds us together'. We'll see if that happens.

I'm actually hoping epic X-wing will pick up once the raider is released. I know that my local game group and I are interested in revisiting it once the raider is out. As far as Armada I don't think it will kill epic x-wing (at least I hope it doesn't) since the games are very different from each other.

I'll just say that I do think it was a big mistake of FFG not to put out an Imperial epic at roughly the same time as they put out the rebel epic ship. Hopefully epic can rebound from this once there's more balance between the two. I certainly plan to suggest it to my people.

At the same time, the epic ships are harder for me to lug around, as I mostly get around by bicycle.

I just don't know if Epic X-wing is going to be all that fun. The huge ships really don't maneuver all that much and are best served as a battering ram to take smaller ships off the board. I kind of just see battles becoming a broadside slugfest where each side just rolls dice at each other til one of the huge ships goes down.

I could be wrong, but with my limited epic experience, I just see that happening.

My gut and brain agree with Jo Jo.

Looking back, the Epic ships seem more like visual pieces. Meant more to draw people's attention by bling factor than anything else.

I just don't know if Epic X-wing is going to be all that fun. The huge ships really don't maneuver all that much and are best served as a battering ram to take smaller ships off the board. I kind of just see battles becoming a broadside slugfest where each side just rolls dice at each other til one of the huge ships goes down.

I could be wrong, but with my limited epic experience, I just see that happening.

I imagine that maneuvering is also going to be less of a dynamic in Armada than it is in standard X-Wing.

Regarding Epic, I think it's a mistake to look at the way the big ships maneuver as what makes the huge ships interesting for maneuvering in X-Wing. They provide a wrinkle for the small (and large) ships to be more concerned with maneuvering. They now have some really dangerous moving obstacles that they need to avoid being hit by. That makes maneuvering more important in X-Wing, not less.

My gut and brain agree with Jo Jo.

Looking back, the Epic ships seem more like visual pieces. Meant more to draw people's attention by bling factor than anything else.

Do you have organs that have a different opinion?

They're pretty awesome bling, in my view.

But I also think they're tremendous fun. They're a real challenge to fly (shooting and maneuvering). It's great to steer a CR-90 through an asteroid field, even if hitting an asteroid is not that big of a deal (except from the asteroid's point of view). Like with Armada you have a longer shadow of the future to deal with and keep in mind.

I also like the energy economy that they have to deal with. Maybe that's just because in my mind I'm ordering the crew to divert power from the shields to the cannons, and steer the ship minimally to generate more spare power.

I greatly enjoy playing Epic. I don't know why everyone is so gung-ho about playing 100 point games of X-Wing all the time, and even though I've only used my GR-75 and don't own a Corvette (yet) I still vastly prefer the options and expanded playstyle that epic has to offer due to the more flexible use of ships and points. :3

As for the topic at hand, it's difficult to say if the sales of the Raider are going to be culled at all. People have wanted to use the TIE Advanced as a scary and effective piece in the game since WAVE 2 and now there's finally an opportunity to do that with the inclusion of the free (or reduced cost) sensor upgrade alongside new pilots which we still don't fully know the details of. The Raider itself also seems like a really solid ship for epic play, and it should be given the fairly steep cost of deploying it onto the field, and I'm eagerly awaiting reading more about it.

What I do know is that I want to enjoy both games and that with a limited budget at my disposal it can be tricky to balance between the two, but I'm sure there are people who are going to play X-Wing and Armada.

I think (I know I've said this before) I love Epic. Star Wars: X-Wing has highly detailed well painted figures and nothing gives the true feeling of Star Wars than fighters zipping about and around slow moving large/Epic ships. I know we won't have a Star Destroyer and I'm okay with that. But the pilots we love with a Raider, CR-90 and a couple of GR-75 transports is Star Wars right out of Return of the Jedi .

Don't get me wrong, I truly enjoy dog-fighting. Even so I prefer missions/scenarios; but you only have to look at one or two Epic ships with fighters flying around and say 'Now that's star wars'. Dog-fighting is good and I'm sure Armanda will be a fun game too.

I hope FFG comes out with at least one more Epic ship for the Imperials. Because with Star Wars: X-Wing Epic... well that is the perfect in between which shows and feels Star Wars.

In my area, gameplay seems mostly structured around standard 100pnt X-Wing. People make noise about wanting to play epic, but people don't tend to bring out their huge ships, because it's (safely) assumed that standard matches are going to be what is going to happen. Armada may suffer the same fate.

I think it's going to take an act of cajoling to move my people from the standard game, though they seem relatively open to epic, should it present itself. With the Raider not out there yet, I don't think it's worthwhile to start that cajoling. I will certainly do so with Armada, once I get it into my clutches, but until (if) it catches on, I think it's going to be a sideshow to X-Wing.

Ultimately, what I would like to achieve is for there to be a narrative overarching game that helps set the scene for Armada, X-Wing as well as X-Wing epic, which 'surrounds us, and binds us together'. We'll see if that happens.

I always keep my Epic in my standard kit.

I'll just say that I do think it was a big mistake of FFG not to put out an Imperial epic at roughly the same time as they put out the rebel epic ship. Hopefully epic can rebound from this once there's more balance between the two. I certainly plan to suggest it to my people.

At the same time, the epic ships are harder for me to lug around, as I mostly get around by bicycle.

I have to agree. Also there is a big drive with tournaments which is smaller scale.

They honestly need another Imperial Epic.

I think that Epic scale X-wing is so fundamentally flawed that once the Raider is released (I think, as a token of completionism), then I doubt we will see any more ships. One of the reasons why it has perhaps taken so long (aside from the licencing issues), is to even see if the community "forgets" about epic scale so they don't have to do it. Instead Armada appears to have fixed many of the problems that we see in X-Wing epic, by having different dice for different ships and ranges, individual shield facings, commands instead of energy micromanagement, etc. Even without Armada I would doubt that any more Epic ships would be made, but with Armada coming out, I fear for the future of X-Wing, let alone Epic ships.

There are multiple reasons why as a player I feel Epic X-Wing hasnt worked, but particularly -

Continued use of X-Wing attack and defense dice/mechanisms - these just do not scale up well and cannot represent the strength, power and abilities of capital ships.

In order to stop huge ships being "over powered" instead they made them far too fragile, to the point where taking an epic ship like the CR90 is actually a liability compared to what else you could take.

The GR-75 is a support vessel, but X-Wing is largely about "killing the opponents ships", and spending such a huge amount on an unarmed vessel that dies easily is just wasteful.

I don't see that the release of the Imperial raider will change anything about X-Wing Epic play at all, infact the only reason why I would consider buying it would be for the TIE Advanced upgrades. If they make the Raider stronger then the CR90, then it wouldnt be fair to match against each other (which Epic players will want to do), and if they make it as weak and broken as the other existing ships, then noone will want to use them anyway :/

It's a lose, lose situation from how I see it. I am just eternally grateful that they got the rubbish ideas out of the way on X-Wing Epic scale before Armada came on the scene.

Epic X-Wing is broken and I haven't seen anything released about the Imperial Raider that would address that. The corvette is simply not worth the points. The Imperial Raider may aggravate this, as the rebels don't have as much ships with 3 green dice which are the way to go against huge ships.

I'd definitely agree that epic was flawed, to a point. 300 points of dogfighting was actually really fun if you didn't allow max ties and interceptors, and the transport if kept cheap and using slicer tools could pulls its own weight. What killed it though was the cr90, it just doesn't do nearly enough compared to an equal amount of tie fighters.

One thing I am very interested in is to combine both games into one. For epic style use Armada which would basically be the "real" game. X-wing would be squad battles. When squadrons are engaged you use xwing fighters and combat (on a separate mat), to resolve. Still working out the rounds/turn. However I think it can work.

I acknowledge that the CR-90 doesn't tend to hold it's own, for its points. At least, that's what everyone is saying, and my personal experience (where I've been competitive with it) is minimal in terms of frequency.

So, I hope that they've made the Raider a real beast against the average fighter, but vulnerable to the CR-90's turbolasers. We''ll have to see how it pans out. We know that FFG learns from mistakes, so hopefully the reason they just put the two out there that they did was for the aim of improvement, and not a proof of concept that has failed.

One thing I am very interested in is to combine both games into one. For epic style use Armada which would basically be the "real" game. X-wing would be squad battles. When squadrons are engaged you use xwing fighters and combat (on a separate mat), to resolve. Still working out the rounds/turn. However I think it can work.

I think this will work better if the focus on the X-Wing games, with Armada just being the source of narrative. The thing is, I think that if the Armada game is being played conservatively by either side, then the X-Wing games will be too one-sided to be any fun. By conservative, I mean engaging the fighters with the outcome not in one's own favor.

I think to make it work, you'd have to alter the disengagement rules for Armada, and the outcome rules for X-Wing.

So, if snub- and superiority fighters are there to screen bombers, then the bombers should have some chance of escaping the X-Wing-level engagement by flying to the opposite side of the field.

I have only used the larger ships in X-wing as scenic items. It really does draw a lot of attention when these fighters are flying about all these larger craft. To me it really makes the game look that much more amazing. Using them in game play has never come up in our group. Armada has already sparked soo much interest in our area, it will be bigger then X-wing from our prediction.

I acknowledge that the CR-90 doesn't tend to hold it's own, for its points. At least, that's what everyone is saying, and my personal experience (where I've been competitive with it) is minimal in terms of frequency.

So, I hope that they've made the Raider a real beast against the average fighter, but vulnerable to the CR-90's turbolasers. We''ll have to see how it pans out. We know that FFG learns from mistakes, so hopefully the reason they just put the two out there that they did was for the aim of improvement, and not a proof of concept that has failed.

One thing I am very interested in is to combine both games into one. For epic style use Armada which would basically be the "real" game. X-wing would be squad battles. When squadrons are engaged you use xwing fighters and combat (on a separate mat), to resolve. Still working out the rounds/turn. However I think it can work.

I think this will work better if the focus on the X-Wing games, with Armada just being the source of narrative. The thing is, I think that if the Armada game is being played conservatively by either side, then the X-Wing games will be too one-sided to be any fun. By conservative, I mean engaging the fighters with the outcome not in one's own favor.

I think to make it work, you'd have to alter the disengagement rules for Armada, and the outcome rules for X-Wing.

So, if snub- and superiority fighters are there to screen bombers, then the bombers should have some chance of escaping the X-Wing-level engagement by flying to the opposite side of the field.

That does seem more plausible with X-wing being the narrative. I was thinking some thing like if you are at range 1 and are engaged (Armada), then you play 2 rounds of Xwing. Any losses are recorded and "displayed" on Armada. Those squads are built from x-wing and kept secret from your opponent. After the xwing rounds all ships (xwing) are removed from the area (separate from Armada).

I understand this type of battle/game would take a long time but it would feel epic to me and if you didn't want to do a specific squad battle just roll or play as normal in Armada for that battle.

One thing I am very interested in is to combine both games into one. For epic style use Armada which would basically be the "real" game. X-wing would be squad battles. When squadrons are engaged you use xwing fighters and combat (on a separate mat), to resolve. Still working out the rounds/turn. However I think it can work.

The original thread that you may be interested in

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/128689-using-x-wing-to-resolve-armada-fighter-battles-theoretically/

One thing I am very interested in is to combine both games into one. For epic style use Armada which would basically be the "real" game. X-wing would be squad battles. When squadrons are engaged you use xwing fighters and combat (on a separate mat), to resolve. Still working out the rounds/turn. However I think it can work.

The original thread that you may be interested in https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/128689-using-x-wing-to-resolve-armada-fighter-battles-theoretically/

Don't know how I missed this! Thank you.

For those interested in combining the game, I hope FFG looks at "FASA's Prefect," which mixed fleet level games into individual fighter scenarios and their ground combat game... I think a pdf set of rules would do perfectly.

Epic: Oddly, while the huge ships seem to hold Epic back, I did play an epic game with just the small ships. We organized a store event, unfortunately, on a bad night when the tables were filled. We got only one 8x4 table, so 8 people played, 4 per side. We had small fighters side by side for the full 8 foot length. There were like four groups of battles going on, and it was really a blast. It takes a lot of organization and time, but a good 300 -400 x-wing game can really be fun with just the small ships. If I could load the photos I would.

Combo: I can see some groups playing a campaign on Armada/X-wing style and then having a few battle scenarios that are determined solely by an epic or small x-wing game with just squadrons.

That does seem more plausible with X-wing being the narrative. I was thinking some thing like if you are at range 1 and are engaged (Armada), then you play 2 rounds of Xwing. Any losses are recorded and "displayed" on Armada. Those squads are built from x-wing and kept secret from your opponent. After the xwing rounds all ships (xwing) are removed from the area (separate from Armada).

A limited number of rounds is an intriguing idea. That does suggest that an Armada engagement, and a number of X-Wing engagements would be happening concurrently. There would have to be a fair amount of tables - possibly with different player-commanders.

That sounds like a really fun sort of event, but also one that would be intricate to organize. You would have to have a pretty strong gaming community, I would think.