ok i wanna fly 5 gsp with refit and i don't know whether to put PTL, predator or outman on them. PTL is the obvious choice. it helps with keeping them alive and is just plain solid. But i have played something similar once where i gave 4 GSPs pred instead. opening up the dial was huge but i still don't know what was best. outman is the odd one out here. i often run it on jake as his second EPT and it can be deadly, but this is very different. Could it work for swarms?

Opinions?

I've run it with pred and outmaneuver, but if you wanted to swap one of them I'd swap predator for PTL. Outmaneuver is pretty darn good for A-Wings. I think it has great synergy with PTL as well.

yeah pred and outman is brilliant together. thing is, you can only mount 4 gsps then. i want five : ) the 4 gsp list has so many bad match ups, imho.

If you want 5, then why not just go with prototype pilots? You could even give them each proton rockets and still get 5. Or go with autothrusters

Can I recommend you actually type out what GSP means? My first guess was Gold Squadron Pilot, but the conversation didn't make sense. It wasn't until AutoThrusters that I figured out Green Squadron Pilot.

Yeah. Sorry. I Will also try to run 4 gsp, thrusters, pred, out man on sundays game Day. Im not so keen on the prototype builds. Have run mixes of protos and sometimes a few bandits but haven't had success with it.

My first thought was ufc fighter george st.piere A swarm of those gsp's would be deadly though.

Can I recommend you actually type out what GSP means? My first guess was Gold Squadron Pilot, but the conversation didn't make sense. It wasn't until AutoThrusters that I figured out Green Squadron Pilot.

Ditto. Always type out the acronym the first time you use it in a post. It helps everyone out and teaches us noobies the slang.

Gamma squad, Gold squad...

Oh! Green!

I don't like predator on A-Wings or any two attack ships, because a significant portion of the time, you're going to not need a reroll, especially if you have a focus token to use for attack. It just seems like wasted points, especially if the enemy just swats your two hits with his evade roll/C3PO/evade token anyway. Add in the dial of the A-Wing and PTL (allowing you to boost/focus to potentially get out of arc) and you've got a good candidate for outmaneuver.

Granted, outmaneuver won't always be useful either, but I think that when it does come into play it's more useful than Predator.

I don't like predator on A-Wings or any two attack ships, because a significant portion of the time, you're going to not need a reroll, especially if you have a focus token to use for attack. It just seems like wasted points, especially if the enemy just swats your two hits with his evade roll/C3PO/evade token anyway. Add in the dial of the A-Wing and PTL (allowing you to boost/focus to potentially get out of arc) and you've got a good candidate for outmaneuver.

Granted, outmaneuver won't always be useful either, but I think that when it does come into play it's more useful than Predator.

If that were the case, then Howlrunner would be the worst ship in the game.

A couple things to consider: low PS means you are most often using focus for defence. Even if you have higher PS, you kinda prefer to keep a token for defense unless you are certain your ships won't get shot. Also, you can k-turn, boost or evade and still modify your attack w/ predator. So your options are always wide open making your flying far less predictable.

Having said all that, I think the OP could consider a mix of EPTs: 2 w/ PtL to fly in front of a pinwheel/box formation and 2 w/ predator to fly in the back. When flying into enemy firing arcs, the two w/ PtL can focus+evade while the predators can focus (and since they are further away, possibly range 2/3 so less attractive targets). Meanwhile you have your 5th a-wing running outmanoeuvre on the flank.

Predator is hands down better than Outmaneuver on two dice ships. It's actually nearly as strong as a full on target lock the less dice you're rolling. Think about it this way: you roll two attack dice, you should get one hit most of the time, leaving only one other dice to reroll. The chances of you getting a focus to spend the focus on after enduring shooting is much lower than simply having a predator reroll.

I don't like predator on A-Wings or any two attack ships, because a significant portion of the time, you're going to not need a reroll, especially if you have a focus token to use for attack. It just seems like wasted points, especially if the enemy just swats your two hits with his evade roll/C3PO/evade token anyway. Add in the dial of the A-Wing and PTL (allowing you to boost/focus to potentially get out of arc) and you've got a good candidate for outmaneuver.

Granted, outmaneuver won't always be useful either, but I think that when it does come into play it's more useful than Predator.

If that were the case, then Howlrunner would be the worst ship in the game.

A couple things to consider: low PS means you are most often using focus for defence. Even if you have higher PS, you kinda prefer to keep a token for defense unless you are certain your ships won't get shot. Also, you can k-turn, boost or evade and still modify your attack w/ predator. So your options are always wide open making your flying far less predictable.

Apples to oranges with Howlie vs Predator.

Howlrunner for a 6 TIE Swarm works out to be a 1 point per ship to buff them. And there isn't an opportunity cost by consuming an EPT.

I'd happily pay a single point to give my A-Wings a reroll if it didn't consume my EPT. 3 points? At the cost of an EPT? No thanks.

Always PtL on GSP swarms. In my experience, being able to make your opponents rage when every single one of your ships can turtle up for a turn and be **** near unkillable is worth more than a re-roll.

I'd agree with the consensus here, PtL FtW (for the win! ;-)). If you can bear to go down to four ships, outmanoeuvre is my go-to second EPT, works wonders against Fat Han, though less useful against Chiraneau irrespective of his weight issues...

Again, like most on here Predator doesn't cut it for me on GSPs, the only other one I've considered, but only on one or two, is Intimidate. If you're hoping to use one to block higher PS ships or herd Phantoms it can be a strong shout to make your other 2 attack ships that bit more punchy.

I don't like predator on A-Wings or any two attack ships, because a significant portion of the time, you're going to not need a reroll, especially if you have a focus token to use for attack. It just seems like wasted points, especially if the enemy just swats your two hits with his evade roll/C3PO/evade token anyway. Add in the dial of the A-Wing and PTL (allowing you to boost/focus to potentially get out of arc) and you've got a good candidate for outmaneuver.

Granted, outmaneuver won't always be useful either, but I think that when it does come into play it's more useful than Predator.

If that were the case, then Howlrunner would be the worst ship in the game.

A couple things to consider: low PS means you are most often using focus for defence. Even if you have higher PS, you kinda prefer to keep a token for defense unless you are certain your ships won't get shot. Also, you can k-turn, boost or evade and still modify your attack w/ predator. So your options are always wide open making your flying far less predictable.

Apples to oranges with Howlie vs Predator.

Howlrunner for a 6 TIE Swarm works out to be a 1 point per ship to buff them. And there isn't an opportunity cost by consuming an EPT.

I'd happily pay a single point to give my A-Wings a reroll if it didn't consume my EPT. 3 points? At the cost of an EPT? No thanks.

Not sure about your math there. I see howlie at 18 pts and divided by 6 ships, that's 3 points per. Which, interestingly enough, is the cost of Predator...

You don't have to like predator on a-wings, but that doesn't make it a bad choice. Compared to Push the Limit, you get slightly less flexibility in action economy, but COMPLETELY open dial---and its the best dial in the whole **** game. So it compares quite well with that particular EPT (and I remember back in wave 3 when people were complaining that PtL was broken!). That is another big reason why I think Predator is actually a decent choice.

Not sure about your math there. I see howlie at 18 pts and divided by 6 ships, that's 3 points per. Which, interestingly enough, is the cost of Predator...

What he's saying is that if you were running 7 Academy Pilots, the cost of upgrading one of them to Howlrunner is an extra 6 points, which then effectively gives them a basic version of Predator at a cost of 1 point per ship affected. You're still getting a PS 8 TIE Fighter with an open EPT slot for the 12 remaining points! Which is precisely why Howlrunner is so good for the points, and why your cost comparison to Predator is slightly skewed.

I do take your point about the great dial, but you have many green options, including the 5 straight to get yourself out of Dodge, or engage a different target who hadn't seen you coming. Plus there's nothing stopping you taking an unexpected 1 turn, sometimes losing an action is worth the surprise factor if your opponent assumed you would clear the stress at the earliest opportunity!

wrong post, wooops!

What he's saying is that if you were running 7 Academy Pilots, the cost of upgrading one of them to Howlrunner is an extra 6 points, which then effectively gives them a basic version of Predator at a cost of 1 point per ship affected. You're still getting a PS 8 TIE Fighter with an open EPT slot for the 12 remaining points! Which is precisely why Howlrunner is so good for the points, and why your cost comparison to Predator is slightly skewed.

I do take your point about the great dial, but you have many green options, including the 5 straight to get yourself out of Dodge, or engage a different target who hadn't seen you coming. Plus there's nothing stopping you taking an unexpected 1 turn, sometimes losing an action is worth the surprise factor if your opponent assumed you would clear the stress at the earliest opportunity!

Well either of those views is 'skewed' in terms of determining the 'cost' of getting action-independent re-rolls on attack dice. Its also kind of not the point.

Sure its got more greens than any other dial - but the fact remains Stress limits you in a very real way (and if you don't clear that stress, sure your opponent might not expect it, but unless you are certain you will have no guns pointed your way, your a-wing could be toast, or even if you aren't gonna get shot up, you have unmodified 2 base attack...)

What you get for Push the Limit: 2 actions per round at the cost of a stress token. Good because lots of green on a-wing dial to clear stress and the a-wing has 4 actions to pick from, so great utility.

What you get for Predator: re-roll 1 attack die (or 2 vs. PS 2 or lower). Good because no stress and action-independent (so you don't care as much about getting bumped and you can k-turn and still modify attack dice----hell you can even fly through an asteroid and have a decent shot on someone).

To say that Push the Limit is 'better' is silly. I get lots of people prefer it, and I can see why. But its not strictly 'better' than predator. I've flown a-wings with both and they both work well. The main difference is that you have to be more careful with predator (you can't just fly straight into enemy guns, because you don't have focus+evade to 'save' you). But on the whole, you are dealing slightly more reliable damage and taking 'unexpected' white (or even red) moves is your norm, not exception (as in the case of PtL).