Hey guys, I was thinking in 2 lists:

“Whisper” with Gunner, Fire-Control System, Marksmanship, Advanced Cloaking Device
“Echo” with Mercenary Copilot, Fire-Control System, Outmaneuver, Advanced Cloaking Device

and

Biggs Darklighter with R2-D2
Blue Squadron Pilot #1 with B-Wing/E2, Tactician

Blue Squadron Pilot #2 with B-Wing/E2, Tactician
Rebel Operative with Ion Cannon Turret

What do you think?

I like the second list more. I seems a little more survivable to be honest. Also, I would drop R2D2 on Biggs, because if your opponent 1-2 shots him (which is usually what happens to Biggs if the opponent is playing smart) That's 4 points wasted. Instead, id suggest switching the HWK out for a Warthog ICT Y-Wing with the R3-A2 Stress Droid. Granted it becomes slightly similar to the panic attack lists that has been circling the meta, but Biggs is great, and I don't see much reason not to fly him in that list.

On your Phantom list it would be good to drop Marksmanship It. isn't worth the points. Also consider Intel agent. If you have phantoms being outbid on PS it's very good to know where ps 8 and up are going.

Thanks for the input!

I will try the Intel agent. Perhaps changing it for Mercenary Copilot on Echo. I can get Veteran Instincts on Echo and he can go to 9 ps.

I adapted the Rebel list from another list that includes a Y that I do not own (I rather play as empire). So I put HWK to compensate.

Thinking of including Dark Curse on the Phantom list. With the changes, I can do it.

Same thing: no R2D2 on Biggs. Its a trap.

Honestly, there's very little more powerful than this variant of the 2 Phantoms. These are not "super super" Phantoms. But decently powerful Phantoms:

Standard meta, "correct" upgrades. There are very few better choices.

If you dont have Veteran Instincts, borrow or simply make substitute paper copies. You should never fly a Phantom without it unless someone is threatening to flip tables on you.

Yeah. I tried to fly it with intel agent, and it was hard without Veteran Instincts. Many times I found myself wanting to cloak, before an enemy attack, but wasn't able.

For your second list, you could drop R2-D2 on Biggs like the others have suggested and replace your rebel operative with Roark Garnet, Ion Cannon Turret, and either Nien Nunb or Intel Agent. The intel agent might make a difference since your B-wings can barrel roll, but it does have that range restriction which means Roark would have to be closer to your enemy than you would like. Nien, however, is nice to just move around quickly while facing control or having to choose some red maneuvers. Roark's ability is just gravy to give whatever guy has the best shot the chance to shoot first.

You get to keep your HWK, your Ion Turret (Warthog's with title don't have the 360 arc), and your offense will be quite a bit stronger.

Other 25 point options I like are Tarn with R7...one of my favorites. I'm not sure he has a place in this list though. He may get targeted last, which is what you want, so that's something to consider. Tarn R7 is just a beast at 25 points.

I don't fully agree with the assertion that Vet. Instincts is auto-include on phantoms. For Whisper, then probably yeah it is, because the jump from 7 to 9 is a pretty big deal in a lot of matches.

Echo is much more situational. I mean, how many matches do you face enemies in the 7/8 range? Once or twice a tourney (sometimes none, but admittedly maybe sometimes more). The thing is though, Echo is pretty good at dodging arcs. Of all the phantoms he's the best at it and even against high PS turrets, as long as you don't get him stuck in the asteroids, he can set himself at a desireable range (usually 3) to minimize harm.

I saw Kinetic Operator's Echo build with push the limit + advanced sensors and I've been trying it out. Its pretty powerful. two actions gives you lots of options: barrel roll for blocking higher PS or possibly dodging their arc (even after accounting for their post-move actions --- echo's crazy decloaks can make it happen). Or if you can't dodge an arc or not sure, you've got 2 focus (w/ recon specialist) + evade to add to your 2 green dice: its a pretty high chance that you will get 3 evades against one enemy shot if you need it, and that should avoid harm as long as you make sure only 1 ship can shoot him per turn. You can even use advanced sensors for 2 focus before a k-turn. So yeah, no ship in the game has so many manoeuvring tricks up its sleeve.

I've also tried Echo with outmanoeuvre, and its pretty fun too. It has some weaknesses though, so i wouldn't run him that way in a dual phantom build (I'd want more ships in case he dies early).

In this game there are several upgrade cards that might as well be "stapled" to the pilot cards, like Expose on a Decimator. Advanced Cloaking and VI (in my opinion) needs to be stapled to Whisper.

What about this list with the new FAQ? I still have to read it, but what to do?