Hi guys, bit of a tricky one came up in my group last night.

The "Dodge" symble on the white defence dice cancels all damage from the attacks but does it stop surges aswell. The first time we came against this was with an E-Web and the surge allowed the Engineer to Recover health.

Last night however it came up against the Royal Guard Champion with the Reward card from "Means of Production" and "Show of Force" cards attached. I rolled up the Red, Yellow and Green and the Rebel got a Dodge.

This put us into a little conflict. Several Serges came up and there effects came into question. There were ALOT of possible surge options including extra damage and various conditions. We decided that, as Dodge states Rebel take no damage, the additional damage results shouldnt be used.

My arguement was that if the Recover from the last game could be used, then Bleed and Stun should also be allowed.

This nearly caused a table flip.

Is there any solid ruling on this? We couldnt find it in any of the rules books.

Thanks for your help

IronDan

surges can be used on a dodge page 17 Miss 3rd bullet point rules reference guide

conditions require the target to have taken at least 1 damage for them to take effect page 6 special situations regarding attacks bullet point 6 rules reference guide

"Miss", RRG, Page 17:

When an attack misses, other effects can still be triggered (such as using the Recover keyword). If the ability requires the target figure to suffer one or more (damage), such as Cleave, a miss prevents that ability from being resolved.

So, if a Dodge is rolled, the attacker should not waste time spending surges to increase damage, or trigger damage dependent keywords, such as Blast, Cleave, Stun, or Bleed. Nor should the attacker spend surges on Pierce, as all of these would be nullified by the Dodge result.

Recover is not damage dependent. If you have a surge available to spend during the attack roll, even if the attack misses or causes no damage, you are still free to spend a surge to trigger Recover.

Note that even if the defender rolls a dodge, the defender's evade results still cancel surges. So you may not have the surges to power that ability.

For example:

Attacker rolls: 3 Damage and 1 Surge

Defender rolls: 1 Dodge and 1 Evade

Result: The Evade cancels the rolled Surge and the attack misses.

So how does this effect 1 surge = 2 damage abilities? Can this damage still be dealt even though the main attack was dodged?

So how does this effect 1 surge = 2 damage abilities? Can this damage still be dealt even though the main attack was dodged?

Nope. No damage will go through if the attack was dodged. Surge is better spent on recover/remove strain.

What about focus? I had a guy say that you couldn't use it on a miss due to the bit about conditions requiring damage on the target, but I argued that that's moot since the condition in question is "hitting" the user, not the target. Any official word one way or the other?

What about focus? I had a guy say that you couldn't use it on a miss due to the bit about conditions requiring damage on the target, but I argued that that's moot since the condition in question is "hitting" the user, not the target. Any official word one way or the other?

Focus is a (beneficial) condition and while it may be counter-intuitive, you do indeed need to do at least 1 damage for it to be applicable.

RRG, page 9:

Conditions are sometimes used as keywords. When an attack uses a condition as a keyword, the condition is applied using the following rules:

-- The target of the attack must suffer one or more damage for the condition to apply.

-- The condition is applied after the attack resolves.

-- If it is a Beneficial condition, it is applied to the attacker . If it is a Harmful condition, it is applied to the target figure.

Wait, I am now noticing something I may have been playing wrong.

Situation:

Attack rolls 3 hits and a surge.

Defender rolls 3 Dodge.

Attacker spends surge to add 2 damage.

2 Damage is dealt, correct? Or can the surge not activate because previous damage has been cancelled?

I know if the Surge ability was (Surge): Bleed, it would not work, because I know Bleed cannot trigger if there are no uncancelled hits. But, I thought damage could still be added in this way?

Dodge is the term for the X-Men looking symbol on the white die. If someone rolls a dodge absolutely no damage no matter what is dealt.

In the example above I believe you are referring to 3 Blocks on the black die. In this case you can surge to add damage over what was blocked.

Wait, I am now noticing something I may have been playing wrong.

Situation:

Attack rolls 3 hits and a surge.

Defender rolls 3 Dodge.

Attacker spends surge to add 2 damage.

2 Damage is dealt, correct? Or can the surge not activate because previous damage has been cancelled?

I know if the Surge ability was (Surge): Bleed, it would not work, because I know Bleed cannot trigger if there are no uncancelled hits. But, I thought damage could still be added in this way?

If a single "Dodge" is rolled, the defender never receives damage at all this attack. In your example, I think you confused "dodge" with "block". If the defender rolls 3 "blocks" then yes - he would be dealt 2 damage.

EDIT: Ninja'd

Dodge is the term for the X-Men looking symbol on the white die. If someone rolls a dodge absolutely no damage no matter what is dealt.

In the example above I believe you are referring to 3 Blocks on the black die. In this case you can surge to add damage over what was blocked.

Wait, I am now noticing something I may have been playing wrong.

Situation:

Attack rolls 3 hits and a surge.

Defender rolls 3 Dodge.

Attacker spends surge to add 2 damage.

2 Damage is dealt, correct? Or can the surge not activate because previous damage has been cancelled?

I know if the Surge ability was (Surge): Bleed, it would not work, because I know Bleed cannot trigger if there are no uncancelled hits. But, I thought damage could still be added in this way?

If a single "Dodge" is rolled, the defender never receives damage at all this attack. In your example, I think you confused "dodge" with "evade". If the defender rolls 3 "evades" then yes - he would be dealt 2 damage.

EDIT: Ninja'd

AHH right right yes you understood me. The Dodge cancels the attack altogehter, that's the X on the white die. What are the cancelled surge results called?

Cancelled surge is evade. Cancel damage is block. Complete attack miss is dodge

Just remember that Dodge does not actually "cancel the attack altogether" because a hero can still use a surge to recover strain, or any figure could use surges to activate Recover abilities on their card, for example. Dodge is better interpreted as infinite block, so no damage can be dealt, but any other part of the attack can still happen as long as it doesn't require damage to be dealt (which Focus, Bleed, etc. all do).

My arguement was that if the Recover from the last game could be used, then Bleed and Stun should also be allowed.

This nearly caused a table flip.

You are 100% in the wrong.

Conditions can only be dealt if damage is done. Since no damage is done, Bleed and Stun may not be used.

Dodge avoids all damage. Spend surges on +dmg if you want, dodge still cancels it.

THIS IS AN AMAZING THREAD!!!!

THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING WITH MY GROUP!!!

WE HAVE BEEN PLAYING THIS WRONG SO MUCH AND THIS REAFFIRMS THE LACKLUSTER THAT IMPERIAL OFFICERS ARE AT ATTACKING!!!

*cough*

Excuse me...sorry...got a little excited there...

We've always played the Officer as getting FOCUSED when he sucks so bad on his attack rolls. This nullifies at least half of the campaigns we have played with Imperial victories.

EXCITING!!!!

WE HAVE BEEN PLAYING THIS WRONG SO MUCH AND THIS REAFFIRMS THE LACKLUSTER THAT IMPERIAL OFFICERS ARE AT ATTACKING!!!

We've always played the Officer as getting FOCUSED when he sucks so bad on his attack rolls. This nullifies at least half of the campaigns we have played with Imperial victories.

Not sure I understand what you mean by wrong, but to reiterate, damage still needs to be dealt for the figure to gain Focused. And the Focused gained during an attack roll cannot be used on that attack.

Imperial Officers *SHOULD* have a lackluster attack, their job is a support role, not a direct assault role.

"Focused" RRG, Page: 12

If a figure has the “Focus” keyword, it may become focused after attacking. If the target suffers one or more (damage), the attacker becomes Focused after the attack resolves.

If a figure gains the Focused condition after rolling dice for an attack or test, it cannot use the condition until the next time it attacks or performs a test.