This comes up a lot, to me whenever there is a player that wants to focus on one thing in the game to make their character untouchable as a GM you just starting using what bypasses that more frequently. The game provides options aplenty to ruin a high soak characters day. Same theory in D&D, if you have someone that constantly uses invisibility I just tell them plan on facing a lot of opponents with Truesight, Blindsight, etc. That generally encourages players to not waste so much effort on being such a flat unrounded character.

Alright, normally I would say Strain is the downfall of high armor characters (a wookie for example) but soak applies to Strain damage (which we also took away and added some custom mods that reduce SHOCK damage, or strain damage from energy weapons) What would be a few things that destroy a heavy soak character in the book though? Cause I know if a NPC has like a pierce of 5, my players will start to throw tables a a bit xD

Bolos, Glop grenades, NPCs with Pressure Point, pretty much anything with the Concussive effect.

I feel like the odd man out - my current party has a Marauder AND a Heavy, and no PC has a Soak higher than 5.

I feel like the odd man out - my current party has a Marauder AND a Heavy, and no PC has a Soak higher than 5.

Probably because you have people that are role playing their characters, and not tweaking #s like they're in a mmo.

I feel like the odd man out - my current party has a Marauder AND a Heavy, and no PC has a Soak higher than 5.

Probably because you have people that are role playing their characters, and not tweaking #s like they're in a mmo.

Yep, my players are weird. They don't loot (most) bodies either, beyond grabbing stimpacks and ammo off of them in a pinch.

I didn't see this mentioned (probably missed it): adding Brawn through Dedication doesn't increase Soak.

I always think I think I knew that but yet I always forget it and can never find it in the rule book when looking. Have a page number?

I had it wrong: p104 of AoR, it's the PC's Wound Threshold that is not increased, but Soak is.

My parties soak varies from 3 (Our hot shot pilot) to 11 (The wardroid who is a good roleplayer, but can't let go of min-maxing desire and also has like 3/4 defence dice, yet strangely enough only uses a disruptor pistol.). Our general soak varies from 5-6, with two falling under that and one above.Typically our problems with autofire weapons oveshadows the soak issues.)

Personally, I don't see soak as taking the hits head on, but rather Brawn reflects athletics in general; it reflects your ability to both dodge attacks and as a physical stamina theshold in combat to roll with the blows (a more athletic character can parry hits more effecently, or push themselves for longer when attacking a group; thus drawing their "luck" out, with armour enabling them to take the edge off glancing hits) with only makes sense, even with all the coodination in the world, if you don't work out then one's body may come up short at the worst times.

Do I have problems with it? Aside from the droid (who is basically a combatant minmaxed to be a combatant) I haven't had a huge problem with it. Our highest brawn is due to brawn three, a rank in armour master and all that. I know of one Maraulder alt character who will have 7 and then 8, but thats also fine for two reasons.

1) He's a melee combatant, that inherently makes him inferior at actually killing, but much more socially acceptable then couple heavy blasters and a blast rifle.

2) Because without a secondary focus he will be bored outside of combat. Most of us have accepted to not min-max just for combat. A long period of only having one talker taught us that. That Maraulder also chose to go into enforcer to play a more rough and tough merc looking to carry on the mandolorian tradiction (whatever that actually is)

As has already been pointed out, increases to Brawn post character creation DO increase your soak value. This is specifically stated in the Determine Derived Attributes section of character creation. That section is usually a page or two after the talent trees in every CRB. I don't have my EotE book handy, but I found it on page 68 of the FaD Beta.

As was also mentioned, I would not let someone benefit from multiple armors. They get one. So kill the multiple armors, and add full Brawn to soak. You guys should be fine until someone maxes Brawn and finds 3 instances of Enduring.

Alright. Trying it tonight, and I will post the results.

I myself just worry about it. Obviously, it is a topic of interest and I wonder if FF thought about the way d20 worked before implementing in the soak ideas. My d20, most of players avoided soak (as dex dodge was just way better till higher level enemies guaranteed hits) The defense idea seems kinda lame. I just prefer the idea, unless you are a Jedi, I don't care how big you are, a gun will still kill you quickly. I know it is a game, but I prefer a sense of realism and the more accurate cannon as possible. xD

Alright. Trying it tonight, and I will post the results.

I myself just worry about it. Obviously, it is a topic of interest and I wonder if FF thought about the way d20 worked before implementing in the soak ideas. My d20, most of players avoided soak (as dex dodge was just way better till higher level enemies guaranteed hits) The defense idea seems kinda lame. I just prefer the idea, unless you are a Jedi, I don't care how big you are, a gun will still kill you quickly. I know it is a game, but I prefer a sense of realism and the more accurate cannon as possible. xD

Well a Blaster Rifle is doing 10+ damage per hit (usually more in the 12+ range). Most regular low XP characters, even with some type of armor, have a soak around 5 or less and a wound threshold of around 12-15. 2-3 hits and they are down. Even a good shot from a blaster pistol will do 10+ damage.

Combat is quick, shots hurt, and I have yet to find myself frustrated by a combat encounter while playing this game. It feels pretty well balanced in normal circumstances.

I feel like the odd man out - my current party has a Marauder AND a Heavy, and no PC has a Soak higher than 5.

Probably because you have people that are role playing their characters, and not tweaking #s like they're in a mmo.

Like, I don't get this judgmental mindset.

If you're the guy who is running into a volley of stormtrooper fire to hit them with his sword, or stand amid a rain of blaster bolts to open up with their Sidewinder beam-chaingun, how does it NOT make sense that they'd want the best protection possible?

If you're a bounty hunter who works alone and a lot of your marks have gangs/friends ready to defend them lethally, you're just stupid if you don't prepare yourself with physical training and gear that lets you shrug aside blaster shots.

It's more shenanigans to me if the Smuggler is trying to always wear Heavy Battle Armor or something. But it makes perfect sense for a Marauder or Bodyguard or Heavy.

I feel like the odd man out - my current party has a Marauder AND a Heavy, and no PC has a Soak higher than 5.

Probably because you have people that are role playing their characters, and not tweaking #s like they're in a mmo.

Like, I don't get this judgmental mindset.

If you're the guy who is running into a volley of stormtrooper fire to hit them with his sword, or stand amid a rain of blaster bolts to open up with their Sidewinder beam-chaingun, how does it NOT make sense that they'd want the best protection possible?

If you're a bounty hunter who works alone and a lot of your marks have gangs/friends ready to defend them lethally, you're just stupid if you don't prepare yourself with physical training and gear that lets you shrug aside blaster shots.

It's more shenanigans to me if the Smuggler is trying to always wear Heavy Battle Armor or something. But it makes perfect sense for a Marauder or Bodyguard or Heavy.

If they're routinely running into a volley of automatic weapon fire from a crew served weapon then they're playing their character like they're a video game character and not any sentient being. They're playing their character like someone that isn't real and doesn't have any concern with consequences of actions.

The best protection any truly sentient being has is the melon sitting on their shoulders and if someone is playing their character based solely on the meta aspects of the game and tweaking their #s, then they're playing the game like a video game and not a RPG. When the game is reduced to simply moving numbers around and decisions cease to be arrived at through thought while in character and are arrived at based solely on someone's numbers they aren't role playing.

The important thing about Combat and Soak is to keep the Players on edge, nothing should be a cakewalk or combat gets boring. You also don't want to look like you (as the GM) are working too hard to take down a specific PC just because they happen to have a great Soak by using uncommon tactics, heavier or speciality weapons all the time. It's fine for a battle here and there but use them too often and it will feel like GM vs Player really quick. So the best solutions are as effective, invisible, universal, and basically as logical as possible. This is what lead me to adopt the A Hit = Minimum 1 Wound (or Strain if its a Stun weapon) regardless of Soak.

As I mentioned earlier low Soak PCs will not generally be affected by using this House Rule as the average Soak for most of the Careers is going to be 3-4 and even a Holdout Blaster will do a minimum of 6 Damage on a hit so the minimum will always be reached anyway. It's really only going to come into effect when a PCs Soak reaches 7 or more. Additionally it doesn't gimp a high Soak PC it just removes their being nearly invulnerable to Blaster Pistols, which are/should be the most common weapon PCs are going to normally encounter. Mostly though it's solves a problem without having to manipulate combats in such a way as it feels forced and feels fair to everyone.

I have never had a problem with some combats being cakewalks, just as some other challenges are not really all that challenging. Sometimes things are easy for experienced PC groups, and I think that this is desirable as it makes the harder challenges stand out more. In contrast, the D&D idea that everything seems to level up around the PCs really breaks my suspension of disbelief.

If they're routinely running into a volley of automatic weapon fire from a crew served weapon then they're playing their character like they're a video game character and not any sentient being. They're playing their character like someone that isn't real and doesn't have any concern with consequences of actions.

I don't think the movies/other Star Wars media would agree with you here. Happens pretty frequently with the heroes - they don't always get out unscathed but you also don't see them all dead in a pile.

If they're routinely running into a volley of automatic weapon fire from a crew served weapon then they're playing their character like they're a video game character and not any sentient being. They're playing their character like someone that isn't real and doesn't have any concern with consequences of actions.

I don't think the movies/other Star Wars media would agree with you here. Happens pretty frequently with the heroes - they don't always get out unscathed but you also don't see them all dead in a pile.

Aside from the Jedi, most of the heroes in Star Wars, hide, and use cover, and act like they don't want to be shot. People who pile up 19 Soak don't bother. They don't play characters, they play arithmetic equations with names.

The important thing about Combat and Soak is to keep the Players on edge, nothing should be a cakewalk or combat gets boring. You also don't want to look like you (as the GM) are working too hard to take down a specific PC just because they happen to have a great Soak by using uncommon tactics, heavier or speciality weapons all the time. It's fine for a battle here and there but use them too often and it will feel like GM vs Player really quick. So the best solutions are as effective, invisible, universal, and basically as logical as possible. This is what lead me to adopt the A Hit = Minimum 1 Wound (or Strain if its a Stun weapon) regardless of Soak.

As I mentioned earlier low Soak PCs will not generally be affected by using this House Rule as the average Soak for most of the Careers is going to be 3-4 and even a Holdout Blaster will do a minimum of 6 Damage on a hit so the minimum will always be reached anyway. It's really only going to come into effect when a PCs Soak reaches 7 or more. Additionally it doesn't gimp a high Soak PC it just removes their being nearly invulnerable to Blaster Pistols, which are/should be the most common weapon PCs are going to normally encounter. Mostly though it's solves a problem without having to manipulate combats in such a way as it feels forced and feels fair to everyone.

I would just like to say that I actually like the min 1 wound houserule, which says something because I usually don't like houserules.

I would just like to say that I actually like the min 1 wound houserule, which says something because I usually don't like houserules.

I avoid House Rules as much as possible, luckily this system is pretty solid.

My groups marauder/gunner had soak 14 and close to 30 wounds before the game ended.

He was tough as hell, but far from invincible.

I would just like to say that I actually like the min 1 wound houserule, which says something because I usually don't like houserules.

I avoid House Rules as much as possible, luckily this system is pretty solid.

Yeah, generally speaking the system's flexable enough to handwave a few things as part of design without having to change too much. The only house rule considered thus far is autofire rule (each additional shot costs an accumulative advantage, so instead of 9 extra attacks with 9 advantage with a jury rigged heavy blaster rifle, you get 3 additional shots and 3 additional advantage to spend on something else. Or more typically unless one generates more then 5 your only getting a extra shot off.

lightsaber dont care about soak.

lightsaber dont care about soak.

Sure it does. It's no harder to get cortosis weave on armor than it is to get a lightsaber.

lightsaber dont care about soak.

Lightsabers don't care about the first 10 points of soak.

lightsaber dont care about soak.

Sure it does. It's no harder to get cortosis weave on armor than it is to get a lightsaber.

lightsaber dont care about soak.

Lightsabers don't care about the first 10 points of soak.

I'm going out on a limb here but I think, from the grammar of the post, vilainn6 is referring to this:

https://youtu.be/4r7wHMg5Yjg?t=31s

Oh I love power gamers, I especially love when the doctor hits them with two pressure point attacks and drops them, or the scathing tirade whittles them down from a safe location. Soak and WT don`t matter for crap against a clever opponent.

I would advise against the one wound minimum, there are a lot of other abilities that can only be triggered if the target takes damage, such as critical hits and crippling wounds. Which means that your players are going to suffer many more of those, especially as things escalate in conflicts. Getting hit is far easier in this system than others and if a hit guarantees damage, your players lives will be far shorter and more miserable.