"The Super Star Destroyer is so long..."

"How long is it?"

"The Super Star Destroyer is so long, it IS the Kessel Run!"

Would that not be as fast as the Kessel run ;-)

Quick question, how fast does kessel run?

I mean we here about it running all the time right?

So kessel ran 12 parcekt(?) But how long did it take him?

I CANT DO THE MATH WITH OUT half the variables! Haaaaaa

So kessel ran 12 parcekt(?) But how long did it take him?

I CANT DO THE MATH WITH OUT half the variables! Haaaaaa

Quick, someone post some pictures before we lose this Clone Trooper, he's just bearly hanging on!

So kessel ran 12 parcekt(?) But how long did it take him?

I CANT DO THE MATH WITH OUT half the variables! Haaaaaa

Still haven't gotten your core set yet I see. Well try to take deeeeeep breaths.... that's right, now in and out.

Quick, someone post some pictures before we lose this Clone Trooper, he's just bearly hanging on!

Dont worry guys it was just a problem with my respirator, I'm ok now that I removed my helmet

So kessel ran 12 parcekt(?) But how long did it take him?

I CANT DO THE MATH WITH OUT half the variables! Haaaaaa

Still haven't gotten your core set yet I see. Well try to take deeeeeep breaths.... that's right, now in and out.

Quick, someone post some pictures before we lose this Clone Trooper, he's just bearly hanging on!

Dont worry guys it was just a problem with my respirator, I'm ok now that I removed my helmet

But remembered that my core won't get here until wave one,

I think I'm going into shock!!

If you just scale things properly, wave 1 will only be like... 24cm away

If you just scale things properly, wave 1 will only be like... 24cm away

You guys all crack me up! I have been watching the boards tonight, well because you all know, and I kept seeing the SSD thread pop to the top. I kept thinking to myself: "Really? The Core has just hit shelves, and there are people STILL talking about the never to be released SSD?"

I also kept hearing Akbars most famous line "It's a Trap!!!" So, I didn't click on it, you know how things are on the Internet: dangerous to click on, with Ackbars voice pleading with you not to click . . . And then you finally do!

Great Community here you all! Looking forward to the weekend to see everyone's pics and read battle reports and first impressions! I will have my core or two soon enough, but it will be mostly Kitchen Table with my 5 year old son, he plays xwing pretty well, this might be a bit more complicated, but his "Dad, can I just free play now?" is priceless and so is the pew, pew, pewing that follows.

Night all!

Just need to weigh in before I get some sleep. As mentioned already, Wave 1 is delayed, wave 2 is likely 2-3 months away if we are lucky so this is a bit early. But if we have to do this, let me point something out that I feel people just are not getting. VSD seems to be roughly 5" long, CR90 3". CR90 should only be 1/9th the size of the VSD if you want scale, meaning slightly more than half an inch would be proper. The ISD now needs to be 10" if my VSD size is correct, and the CR90 is still WAY to big at its current size vs the hypothetical ISD I mentioned (they eat cr90s if I remember that movie I have watched 100 times or so). So, a properly scaled SSD needs to be just under 9 feet. Ok, well, if we want this to look right, then lets do this, FFG just needs to remake our CR90s (and likely everything else that isn't a VSD). OR we could just take that the current sizes reflect FFG wants us to have fun sized and useable sized ships. So expect a SSD cause we want it, and roughly 15" give or take a couple of inches because it will still be larger than anything else by a ridiculous amount. Seriously guys, I love star wars and want consistency, but get your heads out of the clouds, FFG is going to find a way to give us that ship, its ******* iconic, and short of another game to expand the scale how else is it going to happen? The only real question is what will the rebels get to counter it. This is where Disney and the new expanded universe is going to come in I am thinking.

I think the origonal topic is dead. FFG may or may not release an Executor SSD. If they do its scale would be off and yes other ships are already off but this does not mean the SSD will happen.

That's where the topic stands and won't move in either direction till FFG informs us of what they plan on next.

With that good night and good gaming! It is here and it is on!

But im saying that a scaled down SSD would look nice.

If all you want is a scaled down model of the Executor, I can direct you to the website of a guy who makes garage kits that are a little more than a foot long. They are highly detailed and look fantastic. PM me for the info.

What those of us on the other side are saying is, no, it wont look nice. It will look utterly silly. Think about this for a second: When we first see the Executor in ESB, its shadow overwhelms some ISDs. As the camera pans back, we see a massive ship. One so huge it is clear that several ISDs can fit in its cavernous hanger bay. The size ratio between an SSD and an ISD is even greater than an ISD and a CR90. Along with that is at least a proportional, if not exponential, increase in offenive and defensive weaponry, fighter carrying ability and other things.

How can that possibly be represented in any kind of serious way in this game? Especially with no known Rebel counterpart. To make it playable it won't, correction: it CAN NOT BE the Executor we saw in ESB. It will have to be a ship easily taken out by gimmicky plot devices like an out of control A-wing... Still upset about that by the way. That could only have been worse if Jar-Jar had been piloting the A-wing....

A like is not enough, so "what he said". I would like to point out that especialley the argument on balance has a lot of merit in my view

FFG is going to find a way to give us that ship, its ******* iconic

Again, if I had a dime for every time I heard this argument used for ISD's in X-Wing, I'd have enough money to pay for the core set and wave 1.

FFG will not put something on the table that looks bad. They proved this when they said they would never put a ISD in X-Wing. Since the SSD has the same scale issues as ISD's, my money is on never seeing one here either.

Also the SSD is far, far less iconic than the ISD was, it was in part of a single movie after all. But I suppose calling it that, seems to give more weight and legitimacy to what is effectively "because I want one!!!"

FFG is going to find a way to give us that ship, its ******* iconic

Again, if I had a dime for every time I heard this argument used for ISD's in X-Wing, I'd have enough money to pay for the core set and wave 1.

FFG will not put something on the table that looks bad. They proved this when they said they would never put a ISD in X-Wing. Since the SSD has the same scale issues as ISD's, my money is on never seeing one here either.

Also the SSD is far, far less iconic than the ISD was, it was in part of a single movie after all. But I suppose calling it that, seems to give more weight and legitimacy to what is effectively "because I want one!!!"

Well technically it was in parts of two movies, ESB and ROTJ. It got pretty significant screentime. It certainly isn't "iconic" in the same way as the X-Wing, TIE Fighter, Millennium Falcon, and Star Destroyer, but it's certainly one of the best-known OT ships.

but it's certainly one of the best-known OT ships.

You mean best known after all the other OT ships?

WotC Star Wars Starship Battles did a Super Star Destroyer model. It was suuuuper not to scale, and on the table it was about 1/3rd bigger than Home One, maybe more, which already wasn't to scale as it was probably the length of like 5 1/2 X-wings. So... I still bought it.

That said, FFG would certainly respect the relative scale far more than that, obviously. But reasonable concessions to get it onto the table without it becoming the table are perfectly welcome. If it comes out about twice the side of the ISD, I'm perfectly happy.

but it's certainly one of the best-known OT ships.

You mean best known after all the other OT ships?

Yeah, I was going to say it was in the top 10...then I realized there are only like 12 kinds of ships in the OT.

Still, I'd say it's one of the more recognizable Star Wars ships, period. It got more screen time than the TIE bomber or interceptor. It was Vader's command ship.

I'm not saying this has any relevance to whether it can or should happen, though.

I do not get why comparing an ISD in x-wing is the same? I went and looked it up to be sure. An x-wing is 12.5m in length, and ISD 1800m. It would take 144 x-wings nose to aft to equal the same length. A SSD is 19000m, or the length of just under 11 ISDs. How is this even a comparable argument? My original post made a guess at model size (any confirmation BTW?), specifically 5" VSD and 3" CR90s. A ISD needs to be 10" in length to be scaled with a VSD properly, and it would still be way off compared to the CR90. We can probable assume that a 10" ISD is not likely, and I have always figured between 7 and 8". Enough to look imposing, but still playable. So as I said, a 15 or 16" SSD would be MASSIVE, require careful maneuvering and look cool. Seriously, what is wrong with having a SSD that isn't 3 feet long?

I do not get why comparing an ISD in x-wing is the same? I went and looked it up to be sure. An x-wing is 12.5m in length, and ISD 1800m. It would take 144 x-wings nose to aft to equal the same length. A SSD is 19000m, or the length of just under 11 ISDs. How is this even a comparable argument? My original post made a guess at model size (any confirmation BTW?), specifically 5" VSD and 3" CR90s. A ISD needs to be 10" in length to be scaled with a VSD properly, and it would still be way off compared to the CR90. We can probable assume that a 10" ISD is not likely, and I have always figured between 7 and 8". Enough to look imposing, but still playable. So as I said, a 15 or 16" SSD would be MASSIVE, require careful maneuvering and look cool. Seriously, what is wrong with having a SSD that isn't 3 feet long?

Now, they added the corvette to x wing, which is roughly x10 a x wing.

Having a SSD in armada would be much easier than an ISD in x wing.

Yes they would have to scale it down. But does that matter as long as it is the biggest thuthing on the table?

After reading and rereading arguments over many threads, as I see it, those who want the SSD have two main arguments: "I want it" and "I dont care if its small." Those who don't want it also have two main arguments: "A small SSD will look rediculous" and the balance issue.

Interestingly, while those who dont want the SSD consistantly take on the model size issues that the pro side discuss, those that do want the SSD will not take on the balance issue. In several posts, a couple of the pro-SSD folks has flat out said they will ignore arguments they do not like that don't support the SSD. That's just silly.

Will someone on the pro-SSD side address the balance issue, please? How do you suggest that be overcome to create a shp that is equal to what we saw on screen and in the fiction yet does not break the balance of the game?

Here is the info that needs tobe taken into account:

2,000 turbo lasers

2,000 heavy turbo lasers

250 assualt concussion missile tube, each with 30 missiles

250 heavy ion canons

40 tractor beams

500 point defense laser canons

144 Tie fighters (Minimum, source notes that can be upped to "thousands fully loaded")

200 assault and support craft, such as skip-ray blast boats and such.

Size of the model aside, how can this possibly be balanced into the game?

Ill tackle the balance issue then.

So what we see on screen (and thus actually cannon) is a few laser blasts from its guns, and then an A-wing crashes into the bridge which effectively destroys it. Not to powerful when it comes up against plot armor if you ask me.

But then there is everything else about it thats not in the movie. Seeing as I havent read any books, but have played quite a few PC games (like Empire at War) I cant say Im an expert, but Ill throw in my two cents, combined with a lot of wookiepedia browsing.

The EU has lots of stuff, just saying I know its there. Ive read wookiepedia many a time when Im bored and the SSD is just so glorious....

Realistically, the SSD is huge so it could take quite a few hits before you even dented its combat effeciency. Likewise it has so many guns it can certainly dish out punishment. But not all those guns can be pointed the exact same direction. However, thanks to whoever designed the SDs, the wedge shape lets you focus most of your guns forward, but not every single one. And when your ship is 19km long, that would just make it harder to focus guns accurately on a single spot. Especially if youre shooting guns at the back of the SSD to a target that is now a great many Kms away. Yes technology gives you more accuracy, missiles would be more accurate because they arent plain energy slugs, but they are range limited. Yeah space=no friction=missiles can go further. But once they are out of fuel, at whatever point that is, you cant control them. As for laser bolts, nothing you can do after its left the cannon. Unless youre the Covenant from Halo and can control them magnetically, but I havent heard that kind of technology in Star Wars. Oh, and dont forget, your target would be moving if it was captained by any sane person. And just about every other ship that a SSD would go up agaisnt would be much more manuverable than an SSD. So if anything it needs lots of guns to counter the drawbacks of being so huge. If you throw 100,000 laser bolts down range, youre going to hit something.

Its fighter and secondary ship complement is irrelevant to this discussion because Armada allows you to take your own fighters separate from your ships. And to give the SSD a rule that kept spitting out fighters would make things to complicated.

I will try and put that all into whatever scale FFG is using. Which is erratic. And I dont think anybody has figured it out yet?

So lets start with what we know: The lowly CR90 shoots 3 dice in the front arc. The Tantive IV has 6 guns. A Victory II SD has 180 guns and missile launchers (granted these include light guns), and it shoots 6 dice off the front. So we can see the FFG's scale already has problems. There is no way that 6 guns is only half as effective as 180. And a Vic II is x6 as large as a CR90.

Already we have a big problem with scale.

An ISD is roughly x10 the size of a CR90, but I doubt we will be seeing it throw 30 dice off the front. More like 8 or so, even though it as hundreds of guns. Also, the model is not x10 the sive of the CR 90 model, because RELATIVE SCALE! The ISD is one of the biggest capital ships so its going to have one of the biggest models. How would you know the difference between a Vic and a ISD, because the ISD is bigger(and the bridge towers look different but thats inconsequential to my argument). Yeah its not x2 a Vic, but it is bigger.

So a SSD has thousands of guns, is 19km long. In Empire at War(pc game for you uninitiated folks) the SSD is massive, has lots of guns and is awesome. But its not x11 of the ISDs in the game, so even then its also scaled down. Its still very powerful and can take on many ships. But, unsupported it will still crumble. It moves very slowing and turns worse than the flying albino space whale so after a ship moves out of its front arc its damage output per target decreases drastically. Also, its very vulnerable to fighter bombers. Yes, in the game it can pump out fighters every 10 seconds, but if you have a large enough fighter force, and plenty of bombers you could take it out and only lose a few ships (target the hangar bay with bombers first, then the shield generators, then everything else).

Granted that is a different game, but it has the same feel as armada. Giant space battles with capital ships (lets be honest to ourselves, none of us got the game so we could do the land battles). I think the SSD in EaW is balanced quite well.

How to put it into Armada? well that would require a few things

1)finding the proper model size. It doesnt have to be x11 a ISD, and sticking to what FFG has done so far it really only needs to be the biggest thing on the table. There have been several discussions as to how big this should be. I think anything more than 20" is getting to big, it just needs to be the biggest thing. But since Armada only lasts 6 turns (or in epic maybe 10 or so who knows) worrying about turning it around shouldnt be to much a problem. They could also make a different movement tool for it tool. I also dont think its neccessary to have a rebel equivalent, but thats another argument

2)play testing rules for it, which I dont have the time for. But off the top of my head... I think its agreed that a volley from a SSD front arc would be enough to destroy most ships single handedly. SO why not have it throw 10 dice so so. Few things would require more dice than that I would think. It doesnt matter that it has 2000 guns if it can destroy a ship by only using 300 of them. Maybe it could get a rule that lets it shoot 3 times. I dont know. Like I said rules for it would require time to make. But my main argument here is that if (in universe) few things can stand up to it then have it throw the most dice, but it doesnt need to throw 100 dice for few things to stand up to it in Armada. Find that sweet spot and bam, you got it.

Plus with 10 or so dice, defense tokens would really come in handy. When you get it by 6 dice the option to half the damage is good, but when 10 dice are coming at you, halving the damage would be great!

So a relative model size, good reasonable rules, and cost it relative to what it does and bam, you have a SSD for Armada. It can be done.

I hope I did a good job.

I agree that this conversation is largely dead but hell why not chip in for the hell of it. My view is that those for the SSD are simply saying that it is achievable and doable based on a compromise in the Armada system. I agree with this line of thought, and also agree that comparisons with the ISD in X wing are not in the same league for the reasons already pointed out multiple times.

Whether they do it is pure guesswork but it is doable in my view where the ISD in xwing was always a ridiculous and unachievable prospect.

To add to the previous post, I think a balance could be achieved by playing with the SSD's firing arcs. Like Eyeless said, it would not be able to bring all its guns to bear on one target. I think it'd be really cool, actually, if they could create a ship with, say, 10 or 12 hull zones/arcs, but would be vulnerable if attacked in certain areas by multiple ships. You might not be able to KILL the SSD that easily, but you might be able to render it ineffective. Maybe it would have two front arcs, so you could flank it and only face half its weapons? I think it could be done, for sure.

I wonder if they would consider bringing in the Eclipse class SSD's.

I agree the Executor is iconic and awesome! but the Eclipse is almost half the length of the Executor (12,000 m vs 19,000 m if my memory serves) and may be a tad easier to fit within the game.

huh Its actually 17, 500 m never mind lol

Crazy big ships...crazy!

guys, 19,000 miles is bigger than the earth's diameter no way this would fit on table even sliding scale.

actually...since there is not orientation in space, i think you could do it by having it big...really big...as big as you want to go, and have it pointed straight up off the table (or down) like a big spike...the facing/orientaiton would be different than all others ships, but so what you could just be like "it's attacking from above!" It would actually look like the SSD is popping a wheelie off the table. thats pretty cool now that I think about it.