I have flown against the BC combo with mangler and Ion Cannon on both ships and I can atest to how brutal it is. Neither option of cannon/innate gunner is a good option if you have to choose which one to let through or negate.

Another problem with the HLC + B + FCS combo is the range 1 'hole'. High PS ship can fairly easily get into range 1 to 'turn off' B's ability. If you haven't already got a TL on them, your chance of hitting plummets, yet they have a good range 1 shot on you (and at PS 9, they shoot first so you might be forced to spend your focus defensively).

I've seen quite a few people talk about and run AP X5 with 2 Alphas with autothrusters. I might delve into that a bit to see what I think.

I just finished a ridiculous game on vassal. I think I had more crits that game than I have all day in some tournaments. My red dice were just on fire way too much. Anyway, I ran:

Kath with Mangler Cannon, Expert Handling, Rebel Captive, Seismic Charge (49)
Carnor Jax with PtL and AT (31)
Alpha with AT (20)

The Alpha was my only casualty, from a Wedge Range 1 one-shot, but not until after he did some damage to both Biggs and Wedge. Kath took some damage, but she can soak it up. The stress was a big factor, because stressed X-wings aren't much good after the first pass. Jax was his usual pain in the rear, as always. I may be able to try it out on the table tomorrow and see what I think of it there vs more squads.

Two more games in the books for the Kath/Jax/Alpha list from the previous post.

The first game was against a Chewie and Nera list. Carnor was the star of that show, because he stopped Nera from spending her focus on her APT, thus resulting in no damage to Carnor. He also completely shut down Lando Crew on Chewie, as he wasn't able to spend his tokens that he got from Lando. I did lose the Alpha and Carnor in that one, but a full Kath can easily mop up a 2 hull left B-wing. Rebel Captive was strong, keeping Chewie stressed for a few turns.

Then I played against a double IG list, B and C. My squad did exactly what it was supposed to do. Kath was stressing the crap out of the IG's, at one point IGB had 7 stress tokens assigned to him. And Jax was shutting down the actions as well. But for the first half of the game, i didn't do a single damage to either of them at all. I dropped the seismic on B, and that was the first damage that I did to them. I ended up losing that one without killing either of them, although I did have them both fairly hurt toward the end.

I think the only real thing that I would change is to drop the seimic and Captive for Gunner. I also don't have a better option for the 20 points that is the Alpha. If you ignore him and go after the bigger targets, the Alpha will hurt you. And if you do go after the Alpha, that is making my Rebel Captive live even longer into the end game, which is where it shines.

So, I dunno. I think I may have to go back to Emon and direct damage through bombs. I just love Carnor's ability to lock ships down, though, so I may have to try and figure out how to include Palob in my list to try and get his effect somewhat. Back to the drawing board for Monday night...

Edit: so came up with this:

Emon with Andrasta, Prox Mine, Seismic, Proton Bomb, Tactician
Palob with Ion Cannon Turret, Tactician (yes, I know it's only in arc, but it might work for a Ion/Stress combo)
Syndicate Thug with Genius, Bomb Loadout, Proton Bomb, Autoblaster turret (Achmed)

The ideas being:
1. Emon has a multitude of bomb options, and can stress with Tactician in either arc, thus further limiting my opponent's movement next round.
2. Palob forces people to take a non-defensive action, or risk getting the token stolen
3. And with a defensive token-less ship, possible Ion and stress combo (in arc, I know, but still)
4. Achmed does his proton bomb thing, and can auto-hit with AB turret

5. with 2 proton bombs on the board, many ships risk dying before the combat phase

Interesting list. I wonder if it would be worth finding the points for engine upgrade on the y?

Achmed doesn't need engine. I would put it on emon first, because he is the most likely to use it in endgame.

Edit: just finished a game with Theorist running dual IG's. Lost that one, too. Emon was his definite target, and 16 hits in 4 attacks will melt anything. Then the other 2 couldn't do much, although I did get one down to 2 hull left before I conceded.

I could have set up better, maybe, because I set up in the middle, and he was able to range 3 with both early on. I could have set up on the edge, but then Emon doesn't have as many places to drop his bombs.

Sigh. I will solve this puzzle yet, or join them in the end.

Hi Hothie. those dual aggressor lists are looking very tough.

here is what im running with in a tourney next weekend. Its based on a list Sable Gryphon played and won with in Texas (he used proton bomb over autoblaster).

Bobba Fett + Engine Upgrade + Tactician + Veteran Instincts + Autoblaster

IG88-B + Autothrusters + Advanced Sensors + Veteran Instincts + HLC

in the small amount of testing ive done i have found the autoblaster on Fett to be really good - boost lets Fett get into position for an autoblaster shot vs high agility targets (at least one reroll by Fett and unpreventable damage for non-crits from autoblaster).

Range 2 shots with tactician mess with their action taking/movement (this is the utility card Sable G used to successfully combat action heavy lists reliant on PTL and also some tech vs phantoms). A stressed aggressor is less of a threat with no K-Turns. Sable found the threat of having tactician altered how his opponents flew against him.

Hi Hothie. those dual aggressor lists are looking very tough.

here is what im running with in a tourney next weekend. Its based on a list Sable Gryphon played and won with in Texas (he used proton bomb over autoblaster).

Bobba Fett + Engine Upgrade + Tactician + Veteran Instincts + Autoblaster

IG88-B + Autothrusters + Advanced Sensors + Veteran Instincts + HLC

in the small amount of testing ive done i have found the autoblaster on Fett to be really good - boost lets Fett get into position for an autoblaster shot vs high agility targets (at least one reroll by Fett and unpreventable damage for non-crits from autoblaster).

Range 2 shots with tactician mess with their action taking/movement (this is the utility card Sable G used to successfully combat action heavy lists reliant on PTL and also some tech vs phantoms). A stressed aggressor is less of a threat with no K-Turns. Sable found the threat of having tactician altered how his opponents flew against him.

I flew a similar list at a recent SC. It did well though I lost on a few key moments (and 60 min rounds). The danger with Autoblaster Cannon is that it tempts you to boost into R1, and if the roll fails (even with the reroll), then Boba takes a R1 shot back and dies pretty easily. When I don't have that cannon, I'm more dodgy and Boba survives longer to shoot. Tactician is GOLD on Boba though, loving that.

Also not sold on the HLC on IG-B, because of the R1 "bubble" where you don't get gunner. High agility ships or even high PS with a boost (VI Chiraneau with EU) can boost into R1, take your R1 (in the case of Soontir, dodge all the hits most of the time, and then not trigger "gunner". I generally like Mangler on there to hurt turret ships more, but I'm still testing.

In the end, my decision is between:

Mangler or Autoblaster Cannon on Boba

Mangler or HLC on IG-B

The "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" cliche comes to mind. And I haven't seen anyone run Sensor Jammer on IG's yet, going for the overkill route of can't possibly be hit. So I made this up:

IG88B and D, both with:

Mangler Cannon, Veteran Instincts, Sensor Jammer, Seismic Charge, IG title, Autothrusters, Inertial Dampeners

I call it, "I Jam". Maybe I'll test it out tomorrow, or later today on vassal possibly.

Hi Hothie. those dual aggressor lists are looking very tough.

here is what im running with in a tourney next weekend. Its based on a list Sable Gryphon played and won with in Texas (he used proton bomb over autoblaster).

Bobba Fett + Engine Upgrade + Tactician + Veteran Instincts + Autoblaster

IG88-B + Autothrusters + Advanced Sensors + Veteran Instincts + HLC

in the small amount of testing ive done i have found the autoblaster on Fett to be really good - boost lets Fett get into position for an autoblaster shot vs high agility targets (at least one reroll by Fett and unpreventable damage for non-crits from autoblaster).

Range 2 shots with tactician mess with their action taking/movement (this is the utility card Sable G used to successfully combat action heavy lists reliant on PTL and also some tech vs phantoms). A stressed aggressor is less of a threat with no K-Turns. Sable found the threat of having tactician altered how his opponents flew against him.

I flew a similar list at a recent SC. It did well though I lost on a few key moments (and 60 min rounds). The danger with Autoblaster Cannon is that it tempts you to boost into R1, and if the roll fails (even with the reroll), then Boba takes a R1 shot back and dies pretty easily. When I don't have that cannon, I'm more dodgy and Boba survives longer to shoot. Tactician is GOLD on Boba though, loving that.

Also not sold on the HLC on IG-B, because of the R1 "bubble" where you don't get gunner. High agility ships or even high PS with a boost (VI Chiraneau with EU) can boost into R1, take your R1 (in the case of Soontir, dodge all the hits most of the time, and then not trigger "gunner". I generally like Mangler on there to hurt turret ships more, but I'm still testing.

In the end, my decision is between:

Mangler or Autoblaster Cannon on Boba

Mangler or HLC on IG-B

gr8 discussion points Kz.

Bobba with autoblaster is untested versus high PS lists but i think it is one of those situational things where u have to weigh up the risk of boosting or not. i just like how they r not going to evade any hits you get but yes if ur reroll fails and they can return fire things get interesting. There will be times when i will be torn between a close range primary weapon shot and an autoblaster shot. NOT giving them defense dice with an autoblaster shot seems really good to me. The number of green dice they are rolling will dictate my choice. 3+ dice = autoblaster? 1-2 dice = primary weapon? Its a hard call either way.

my feeling is i will play bobba aggressively when the situation dictates it. I am using Bobba as a flanker early game and then plan to keep him alive for the endgame - that might mean turning and using that rear firing arc more often which makes me think Kath Scarlet could be better in those situations... not sure that PS9 is going to be enough of an advantage versus whisper or soontir.

Mangler over HLC? i can see ur point, at PS 8 though only the most nimble ships will close into range1 on you and although u dont have the gunner effect u are still rolling 4 red dice with ur primary weapon right?

So, I just played my double IG list vs a Fel and Oicunn with Vader, Captive, and gunner. I hate games on vassal because the dice skew is just so bad. First 14 green dice, 1 natural evade. I never roll that on a table (unless I'm flying firesprays..) Just so critical for IG's to roll something on defense, even with all of the safeguards I built into the squad. So I don't know how much to take from that game.

My opponent also said VI isn't worth it unless you get to 9, and I'm tending to agree. So I think I will try it out again tomorrow night with Determination instead. So that now I have:

base 3 agility
Sensor Jammer
Autothrusters

Focus/evade tokens
4 shields
so that now when you do finally get down to hull, I can discard pilot crits, which would have saved me 2 more damage in this game. (injured on B ((NOOO!!!)) and Stunned as well.)

And I might change up from D to C, so now I get a free evade action as well.

So, I just played my double IG list vs a Fel and Oicunn with Vader, Captive, and gunner. I hate games on vassal because the dice skew is just so bad. First 14 green dice, 1 natural evade. I never roll that on a table (unless I'm flying firesprays.. ) Just so critical for IG's to roll something on defense, even with all of the safeguards I built into the squad. So I don't know how much to take from that game.

My opponent also said VI isn't worth it unless you get to 9, and I'm tending to agree. So I think I will try it out again tomorrow night with Determination instead. So that now I have:

base 3 agility

Sensor Jammer

Autothrusters

Focus/evade tokens

4 shields

so that now when you do finally get down to hull, I can discard pilot crits, which would have saved me 2 more damage in this game. (injured on B ((NOOO!!!)) and Stunned as well.)

And I might change up from D to C, so now I get a free evade action as well.

determination is very underrated. has nice synergy with Greedo but just determination over VI could be worth it on the aggressor and would surely make a significant difference in many games. PS8 and PS6 are very similar. like u say Hothie, getting to PS 9 or 10 makes VI worth it.

I would disagree that VI is not good on IG88. I typically take VI on IG so i don't have simultaneous fire. Plus moving at 8 lets me see how I want to use Adv Sensors prior to moving.

So, I just played my double IG list vs a Fel and Oicunn with Vader, Captive, and gunner. I hate games on vassal because the dice skew is just so bad. First 14 green dice, 1 natural evade. I never roll that on a table (unless I'm flying firesprays.. ) Just so critical for IG's to roll something on defense, even with all of the safeguards I built into the squad. So I don't know how much to take from that game.

My opponent also said VI isn't worth it unless you get to 9, and I'm tending to agree. So I think I will try it out again tomorrow night with Determination instead. So that now I have:

base 3 agility

Sensor Jammer

Autothrusters

Focus/evade tokens

4 shields

so that now when you do finally get down to hull, I can discard pilot crits, which would have saved me 2 more damage in this game. (injured on B ((NOOO!!!)) and Stunned as well.)

And I might change up from D to C, so now I get a free evade action as well.

What about Adrenaline Rush (Oh, the irony for a droid pilot) instead of Determination? Aggressors have a lot of excellent red maneuvers. Getting a Focus or Evade and an open dial post K-turn or S-loop is pretty good. Getting a boost afterwards opens up a completely new set of maneuvers you can pull, albeit for only one turn. It seems like the damage you can potentially avoid via extra actions with Adrenaline Rush is probably more than the damage you avoid with Determination.

im rethinking my loadout on the IG-88

old list 100pts:

Bobba Fett + Engine Upgrade + Tactician + Veteran Instincts + Autoblaster

IG88-B + Autothrusters + Advanced Sensors + Veteran Instincts + HLC

new list 99pts:

Bobba Fett + Engine Upgrade + Tactician + Veteran Instincts + Autoblaster

IG88-B + Autothrusters + Advanced Sensors + Push the Limit + Mangler Cannon

PTL seems pretty amazing in the IG-88, its got so many green movement options and having boost/focus/TL/evade is just too good not to select two actions. similar to soontir i think using evade+focus is going to help the IG-88's survivability considerably.

Mangler Cannon is a safer option for range one combat, although losing the 4 dice atk at range 2-3 hurts. i think wily players would try and block then engage ur IG-88 in close if u were running with HLC but i suppose a top pilot could make the HLC worth the points.

I am considering Inertial Dampeners on Fett with that last point. or is a 1pt initiative bid an option?

The "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" cliche comes to mind. And I haven't seen anyone run Sensor Jammer on IG's yet, going for the overkill route of can't possibly be hit. So I made this up:

IG88B and D, both with:

Mangler Cannon, Veteran Instincts, Sensor Jammer, Seismic Charge, IG title, Autothrusters, Inertial Dampeners

I call it, "I Jam". Maybe I'll test it out tomorrow, or later today on vassal possibly.

Just played against a list like this in the Top 8 match of a Store Championship and beat it pretty easily. It's pretty strong, but if you play a rebel swarm, generally they'll take focus and it doesn't change much. Autoblaster Turret or cannons also kill this list, Sensor Jammer or not. I just feel like it limits your movement (which is how I trapped the IGs) too much without AdS, or you don't get enough accuracy with damage without FCS.

gr8 discussion points Kz.

Bobba with autoblaster is untested versus high PS lists but i think it is one of those situational things where u have to weigh up the risk of boosting or not. i just like how they r not going to evade any hits you get but yes if ur reroll fails and they can return fire things get interesting. There will be times when i will be torn between a close range primary weapon shot and an autoblaster shot. NOT giving them defense dice with an autoblaster shot seems really good to me. The number of green dice they are rolling will dictate my choice. 3+ dice = autoblaster? 1-2 dice = primary weapon? Its a hard call either way.

my feeling is i will play bobba aggressively when the situation dictates it. I am using Bobba as a flanker early game and then plan to keep him alive for the endgame - that might mean turning and using that rear firing arc more often which makes me think Kath Scarlet could be better in those situations... not sure that PS9 is going to be enough of an advantage versus whisper or soontir.

Mangler over HLC? i can see ur point, at PS 8 though only the most nimble ships will close into range1 on you and although u dont have the gunner effect u are still rolling 4 red dice with ur primary weapon right?

Agree with the Autoblaster, I may try it a few more times and see.

For HLC, there are still a lot of PS9 ships in common metas. At least we see Whisper, Chiraneau (with VI), Soontir, Echo, Han, VI Corran, and VI Dash all around here. Those can all give HLC trouble and can either evade the 1 shot well, or in the case of Chiraneau, you don't want it to shoot 4 dice back at you with crits. I just think the HLC is a bit too expensive on a large ship (because of how fast it closes distance) and that R1 "pie" (not donut).

So, I just played my double IG list vs a Fel and Oicunn with Vader, Captive, and gunner. I hate games on vassal because the dice skew is just so bad. First 14 green dice, 1 natural evade. I never roll that on a table (unless I'm flying firesprays.. ) Just so critical for IG's to roll something on defense, even with all of the safeguards I built into the squad. So I don't know how much to take from that game.

My opponent also said VI isn't worth it unless you get to 9, and I'm tending to agree. So I think I will try it out again tomorrow night with Determination instead. So that now I have:

base 3 agility

Sensor Jammer

Autothrusters

Focus/evade tokens

4 shields

so that now when you do finally get down to hull, I can discard pilot crits, which would have saved me 2 more damage in this game. (injured on B ((NOOO!!!)) and Stunned as well.)

And I might change up from D to C, so now I get a free evade action as well.

I would have to disagree on the PS8 not useful on IG also. In all the games I've seen with mirror matches, the person who moves last, wins. Especially if the skill level is somewhat close, it's been pretty much 100% win rate for the late mover. I was a huge fan of Predator until I saw those results. Determination is definitely a good card to avoid those Injured Pilots, but it's still too situational I feel to give up VI.

im rethinking my loadout on the IG-88

old list 100pts:

Bobba Fett + Engine Upgrade + Tactician + Veteran Instincts + Autoblaster

IG88-B + Autothrusters + Advanced Sensors + Veteran Instincts + HLC

new list 99pts:

Bobba Fett + Engine Upgrade + Tactician + Veteran Instincts + Autoblaster

IG88-B + Autothrusters + Advanced Sensors + Push the Limit + Mangler Cannon

PTL seems pretty amazing in the IG-88, its got so many green movement options and having boost/focus/TL/evade is just too good not to select two actions. similar to soontir i think using evade+focus is going to help the IG-88's survivability considerably.

Mangler Cannon is a safer option for range one combat, although losing the 4 dice atk at range 2-3 hurts. i think wily players would try and block then engage ur IG-88 in close if u were running with HLC but i suppose a top pilot could make the HLC worth the points.

I am considering Inertial Dampeners on Fett with that last point. or is a 1pt initiative bid an option?

I like your 2nd list a lot better TBB! It's *almost* what I would run, except I still believe more in VI than PtL (as good as it is on the IG), or go for a 98 point or lower bid. Just too many losses to IG's that move after that it hurts.

Plus, the Mangler is amazing against all the tanky ships out there. All the crits you can land on Chiraneau and Fat Han, yummy!

There are many viable Ept options for IGs. Theorist likes advanced sensors with expert handling on his for the positional aspects. And yes, vi and ptl are both good, depending on the build. But with so much ps9+ out there still, vi on an ig has limitations on its usefulness. The meta mindset is still 9+ or no bid at all, and going from 6 to 8 will sometimes pay off and sometimes not.

The case for determination:

1. Most of you are singing the praises of mangler cannon, so it's prevalence is increasing.

2. Vader crew is an effective way to get reliable damage on an ig.

3. Proton bombs are also more prevalent nowadays, with emon and ywings being able to carry them.

4. Etahn, Greedo, even Ten Nunb with mangler are still around.

5. None of the pilot crits are good for igs.

6. It completely discards the card, so it is another way to save those precious 8 total hull in the build.

Although your point about my opponent taking focus anyway is valid, so that makes me want to drop C for palob. I'll tinker and come up with something tonight. Maybe palob with ion and a warthog.

Actually, maybe I'll try B with determination and drop dampeners on C and put lone wolf on C. See what I think of that.

newest list 97pts:

Bobba Fett + Engine Upgrade + Tactician + Veteran Instincts + Autoblaster

IG88-B + Autothrusters + Advanced Sensors + Veteran Instincts + Mangler Cannon

what to do with those final 3 points?

seismic charge on Fett is tempting

inertial dampeners on either or both ships would be really interesting and complement the already good mobility of PS10 and PS8 ships with a boost option.

go for one of each and sit at 100pts?

There are many viable Ept options for IGs. Theorist likes advanced sensors with expert handling on his for the positional aspects. And yes, vi and ptl are both good, depending on the build. But with so much ps9+ out there still, vi on an ig has limitations on its usefulness. The meta mindset is still 9+ or no bid at all, and going from 6 to 8 will sometimes pay off and sometimes not.

The case for determination:

1. Most of you are singing the praises of mangler cannon, so it's prevalence is increasing.

2. Vader crew is an effective way to get reliable damage on an ig.

3. Proton bombs are also more prevalent nowadays, with emon and ywings being able to carry them.

4. Etahn, Greedo, even Ten Nunb with mangler are still around.

5. None of the pilot crits are good for igs.

6. It completely discards the card, so it is another way to save those precious 8 total hull in the build.

Although your point about my opponent taking focus anyway is valid, so that makes me want to drop C for palob. I'll tinker and come up with something tonight. Maybe palob with ion and a warthog.

Actually, maybe I'll try B with determination and drop dampeners on C and put lone wolf on C. See what I think of that.

Completely agree on how useful Determination is. My debate is mainly on the tough choices between all the good EPT out there. I agree most of the time it's PS9+ or bust, but the Aggressor, by design, is a different beast. Similar to Echo, if it can get to PS9, then it would be a broken ship. at PS8, it is still strong against all but PS9 ships, and even against PS9, it still has enough agility and hull to survive a few shots compared with Echo or even PS8 Corran who just dies to PS9 ships pretty easily.

I do like the idea of having Palob around and having SJ on the IG, that would make for a pretty good combo. Let us know how it goes!

newest list 97pts:

Bobba Fett + Engine Upgrade + Tactician + Veteran Instincts + Autoblaster

IG88-B + Autothrusters + Advanced Sensors + Veteran Instincts + Mangler Cannon

what to do with those final 3 points?

seismic charge on Fett is tempting

inertial dampeners on either or both ships would be really interesting and complement the already good mobility of PS10 and PS8 ships with a boost option.

go for one of each and sit at 100pts?

That's pretty much the end state of my Boba+IGB build. I added Inertial Dampner on Boba (SOOO useful when someone tries to block you and ends up in your R1 Autoblaster ) and on the IG for 99 points with a init bid if necessary against PS8 ships.

I think put a seismic on fett, and ID on IG for your squad.

Tonight, I played 2 games. First game I played a Rexler, Jax, and OGP with Fleet officer build against double IG's. I was unceremoniously obliterated in 2 turns, as both Jax and Brath were dead. I conceded since it was an OGP vs 2 IG's.

So that player then played Simonsays running a triple warthog and Dace build. Simonsays won that one, as those warthogs can pump out the damage. So then simonsays played his triple warthog and Dace build against me running my double IGs.

I ran:
IG88B with Mangler, Determination, Autothrusters, title, seismic, Sensor Jammer, and Inertial Dampeners
IG88C with Lone Wolf, Autothrusters, Sensor Jammer, title, Mangler, and seismic

He was able to focus down B at the cost of Dace and a very hurt Y. Determination did work to get rid of a crit, which kept him alive that one extra turn to put a hurt on a Y. He didn't use his seismic due to being ioned and trapped. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get rid of the _2_ Structural damage crits on B, so he was toast. C was then able to finish off the hurt Y, so it was 2 warthogs vs a full health C. Then the build worked better than I expected it to. He threw loads and loads of dice at me all game long, and he never did get to C's hull. Between green dice, sensor jammer, autothrusters, lone wolf, and a free evade action from boosting, he just could not hit C at all. It was amazing to watch, and frustrating for him, because by all rights he should have been able to do something with all of the dice he was throwing, but he just could not dent my IG built that way.

That was an amazing display, for sure, of what a defensively built IG is capable of. I think I run it some more against other squads and see how it works. But man, for one shining game, it worked wonderfully.

Interesting. I'd be tempted to drop the seismics so that you can upgrade C's Mangler to HLC so that firepower doesn't drop too much after B dies. Could also give C inertial dampeners with the last point...

I've thought a lot about that, but I think I would put the hlc on B, because he may not be able to use his seismic. B can strip shields better with an hlc, then endgame C can crit with mangler.

Edit: Wow. Ok. I can get on board with that. Here is my thought:

B with mangler, sensor jammer, autothrusters, title, determination (47)

C with hlc, jammer, AT, lone wolf, title, seismic (53)

B is the natural first target, but with him costing less, I might get a mod win vs double igs that are 50/50. Also C hits better with the hlc, and can stay alive longer.

Here is the list. I think I really like it.

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/222777/the-best-offense

IG will destroy 2 warthogs, even without sensor jammer or C's ability. Actually, in my 3 games this past store championships against IG, I had 6 2 attack die ship's shooting at IGs all game, always with focus and sometimes at R1, and I did ONE damage in each of the 3 games. If I didn't have my feedback array and autoblaster turret, I would not have won. That would be the only weakness of the dual IG lists against swarms, those with autoblaster turrets or feedback array like my Thugzapper list. ;-)