3 more games today.

First game was a vassal game vs Silver running 3 protos and a decked out corran. That was a long game that taught me an important lesson: Corran is a royal pain to kill. So I need to take out his support first and hope it goes to time, because killing him in time is next to impossible. I did win the game. He did take out B late, but hlc on D was able to finish him off when he landed on a rock.

Then I played on the table vs a Fel/Jax/Turr list. I managed a hit and direct hit on Jax to take him out. Then I was able to get Fel tokenless and took him out, so it came down to Turr vs my 2 IGs. It took a while, but I finished him off without losing either of mine.

Then I played a different person playing the exact same 3 Interceptor squad. I managed to take out Jax and Fel before losing D. Then Turr was a pain, but I got a range 1 shot on him, and put a Stunned pilot on him. I collided with him next round, he hit me, and it was over. So I won that one, too, only losing D.

Interceptors are shifty and tough to get in arcs, so I find I have to split arcs or block really well in order to damage them. This is the only list I have lost to on the table with Yin Yang, and I have beaten it the past 3 times I have played against it, once on vassal and twice today. So I feel better about taking it to Omaha next week.

I switched out Stay on Target on D for Expert Handling. The current list is here:

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/227400/yin-and-yang

I just looked back through this thread, and I'm 6-0 since switching to Expert Handling, and most of them have been against higher PS builds, where SoT would not have mattered. I've got time for 2 games on the table today, one of which should be a squad that counters mine well. So we'll see how it works today.

just a noob question about Expert Handling. can u advanced sensors using it and then K-Turn? putting two stress in total on ur ship or does the stress from EH prevent you from executing the K-Turn?

The stress prevent the use of the k-turn.

Advanced sensor let you do an action before you reveal your maneuver; you gain a stress by executing EH; you reveal a red maneuver while being stressed; your opponent get to pick your maneuver.

You could however do a barrel roll then use Inertial Dampeners for a lateral repositioning.

I switched out Stay on Target on D for Expert Handling. The current list is here:

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/227400/yin-and-yang

I just looked back through this thread, and I'm 6-0 since switching to Expert Handling, and most of them have been against higher PS builds, where SoT would not have mattered. I've got time for 2 games on the table today, one of which should be a squad that counters mine well. So we'll see how it works today.

just a noob question about Expert Handling. can u advanced sensors using it and then K-Turn? putting two stress in total on ur ship or does the stress from EH prevent you from executing the K-Turn?

Well, if you did an AdvS Barrel Roll, you would then receive a stress token. Then if you reveal a Red maneuver, your opponent would have to chose a white or green maneuver for you. However, you can AdvS BR, gain stress token, then do green maneuver and clear it immediately, which is nice.

It's safe to say that Simonsays3 is the man who has played against Yin/Yang the most on the table, so he knows better than anyone how I fly it. I told him to make a squad that would beat it, so we could play and see how I did.

He brought:
Xizor with AdvS, PtL, Autothursters, title
X4 Z's with Feedback array

He got his zaps in early, but that meant he would be going 1 fwd, while I K turned behind him. I managed to pull 2 Z's off the board fairly quickly. I got another one off, then he killed D. B hit a debris token and a rock early, taking damage from both, so it was a 4 hp B against his Xizor and a shieldless Z. I managed to put 2 hits and a Direct Hit on Xizor (he was too far away to pass it off), so Xizor had 1 hull left. I managed to outmaneuver Xizor after a few turns and hit him with a mangler shot of 2 crits. Then it was a matter of finishing off the Z for the win. Shew.

So, I played against a very experienced player who knows my squad better than anyone, had him build a squad to beat mine, and I still came out on top. I gotta say, cue the 80's montage and "Eye of the Tiger", and bring on Ivan Drago next weekend in Omaha. I didn't hear no bell.

ok cool. two good examples of how EH can work well of the IG-88. im going to give it a go myself. i suspect the threat of being able to Barrel Roll unexpectedly will cause them to fly differently against you and make you hard to block as well.

ok cool. two good examples of how EH can work well of the IG-88. im going to give it a go myself. i suspect the threat of being able to Barrel Roll unexpectedly will cause them to fly differently against you and make you hard to block as well.

Part of the success of the squad comes from the unpredictability of D. My IGs are great together, but also great on their own. Being able to AdvS BR to either direction makes it even harder for my opponent to predict where I am going to be. Not to mention the fact that I get rid of TL's in the process when i do, so there is that as well. And as an added bonus, there are times when I am able to barrel roll out of range 2 of B, so that B can use Lone Wolf as well. It's a tough squad to fly against, and I'm only getting better at flying it the more I practice with it.

It's safe to say that Simonsays3 is the man who has played against Yin/Yang the most on the table, so he knows better than anyone how I fly it. I told him to make a squad that would beat it, so we could play and see how I did.

He brought:

Xizor with AdvS, PtL, Autothursters, title

X4 Z's with Feedback array

He got his zaps in early, but that meant he would be going 1 fwd, while I K turned behind him. I managed to pull 2 Z's off the board fairly quickly. I got another one off, then he killed D. B hit a debris token and a rock early, taking damage from both, so it was a 4 hp B against his Xizor and a shieldless Z. I managed to put 2 hits and a Direct Hit on Xizor (he was too far away to pass it off), so Xizor had 1 hull left. I managed to outmaneuver Xizor after a few turns and hit him with a mangler shot of 2 crits. Then it was a matter of finishing off the Z for the win. Shew.

So, I played against a very experienced player who knows my squad better than anyone, had him build a squad to beat mine, and I still came out on top. I gotta say, cue the 80's montage and "Eye of the Tiger", and bring on Ivan Drago next weekend in Omaha. I didn't hear no bell.

Now the real test:

BBBBZ.

It's a statistical nightmare matchup for buzzsaw HLCs in my limited testing.

Vassal game this morning vs a Jax and mini swarm list. I split my ships up like normal. I made him come through the rocks to get to my B while D flanked. he split his squad up a little, which allowed me to pick off a few ties easier. I put a Damaged cockpit on Howl, which was big. i was able to control the ranges well, too, which helped to keep me from getting blocked. It came down to Jax vs both of my IGs at 2 hull left. I managed to get him down to 2 hull, then put a Minor explosion crit on him, and he rolled a hit to end it. Jax is definitely a pain to deal with, but I wanted to pull ships off of the board, so I shot at his other ties first and PS killed some of them before they could shoot me. maybe I should have gone after Jax instead, but I just wanted to reduce the number of shots coming my way. And I think i flew pretty well, too. Expert handling came up big as always a few times.

i was able to control the ranges well, too, which helped to keep me from getting blocked.

You mention this concept several times throughout this thread, but never really extrapolate on what it means. Clearly it has something to do with deciding when and where and how to engage so maximize your dice and minimize theirs, but can you go into some more detail as how how you accomplish it against various builds?

i was able to control the ranges well, too, which helped to keep me from getting blocked.

You mention this concept several times throughout this thread, but never really extrapolate on what it means. Clearly it has something to do with deciding when and where and how to engage so maximize your dice and minimize theirs, but can you go into some more detail as how how you accomplish it against various builds?

Sure. Essentially, my optimal ranges go something like this:

D likes to be at range 3 primarily, due to Autothrusters, the extra defense die, and the hlc combined with B's ability. Range 2 isn't bad, but it gets rid of AT (unless I'm out of arc against a turret.) Range 1 is not a good place to be for D, because unless I have a target at range 2-3, I won't get to use B's ability if I miss. Plus at Range 1, I won't get AT (again, unless a turret), and the attacker is getting an extra die against me.

I can accomplish getting my optimal ranges through many means, but it boils down to Advanced Sensors combined with Boost or Barrel roll, or possibly Inertial Dampeners depending on the board position. For example, I can AdvS barrel roll back and do a 1 bank, and be almost where I was when i started, and still not have stress, which is nice. Also having the 3 turn sloop ability is fantastic for getting pointed where i want to be at the ranges that I want to be.

For B, Range 3 is also best due to AT, the extra Defense die, and my mangler ignoring the extra die for my opponent. A 2 dice gun is just not going to hit B at Range 3, especially if I have lone wolf in effect. Range 2 is the same as D, but Range 1 isn't as bad for B as it is for D due to me still being able to use the mangler if I miss a primary shot.

B doesn't have as many options for controlling Range as D does, which is one of the reasons I like the mangler on B, because I will be getting into range 1 more often. D's ability and the great dial also help me to arc dodge well if i need to.

For the squad, the optimal combination is both ships being able to target the same ship while being outside of range 2 of each other so that Lone Wolf will be in effect. This is the hardest part for me, and it's what i have been trying to work on with my opening.

So, when I say I controlled the ranges well, it usually means that I got most of these things to happen in a favorable way for me. I don't expect them all to happen all of the time, but I try to work on getting the optimal shots and ranges that will lead to success.

And it wasn't really until Scum came out that I was so cognizant of ranges as I am now. I mean, I would try to control the engagement ranges before, but it wasn't nearly as important as it is now. So knowing my own optimal ranges and my opponent's optimal ranges (for example, if I'm facing 5 Thugs with Autoblaster turrets) has been much more in my mind lately.

Ah, just finished another vassal game against Paul Heaver, this time he was flying BBBBZ against yin/yang. I made him split up early, picked off a few B's while the others were turning around. He did manage to take D out, despite some stellar defense rolls (ok, they were better than average this time). But when he took D out, he only had a 1 hull Z, which I took out, and a 3 hull B left vs my full 88B, so he conceded.

I will try to post pics and analysis of both of my games with Paul this week, the loss and the win, for all to see.

Ah, just finished another vassal game against Paul Heaver, this time he was flying BBBBZ against yin/yang. I made him split up early, picked off a few B's while the others were turning around. He did manage to take D out, despite some stellar defense rolls (ok, they were better than average this time). But when he took D out, he only had a 1 hull Z, which I took out, and a 3 hull B left vs my full 88B, so he conceded.

I will try to post pics and analysis of both of my games with Paul this week, the loss and the win, for all to see.

Cool. Should be interesting. Looking forward to it!

I will try to post pics and analysis of both of my games with Paul this week, the loss and the win, for all to see.

I am looking forward to this. Like MJ said, my experience is that BBBBZ is one of the toughest matchups for dual Aggressor.

Yin and Yang (or Hammer and Anvil, as I call them) really intrigues me. I've been flying dual Aggressor exclusively for almost a month, and my own IG iterations have led me to:

IG-88B

• Predator
• Mangler
• Autothrusters
• IG-2000
• Advanced Sensors

IG-88D

• Predator
• Heavy Laser Cannon
• Autothrusters
• IG-2000
• Advanced Sensors

Not nearly as defensive as your build for sure, but consistent on offense. I've played around with Sensor Jammer, but haven't had a tremendous amount of success out of it. I'm not sure why, as it should be a great card on IG.

I really like the Lone Wolf/Expert Handling combo for your EPTs. I think there is a ton of great synergy there in this build for a lot of reasons.

I've been flying a version of my own (Asymmetrical Droids, there's a thread in the squad forum) that uses the same B with predator instead of Lone Wolf, but swapped D for C with PTL, Advanced Sensors, HLC, AutoThrusters, and IG2K title. Originally I used D, but found that I was getting shot more than I wanted even with the hard S-loop, and wanted to switch to having more action economy. I will have to try out the D as you've built him, as a long range sniper with incredible movement potential, the next time I fly the list.

My problem with C is that I don't boost enough to make it worth bringing. Plus my sloop bank is often blocked, but the turn sloop isn't, which is actually a large change in position and angle. D has been working for me, so I'm sticking with him.

Vassal game this morning vs a Jax and mini swarm list. I split my ships up like normal. I made him come through the rocks to get to my B while D flanked. he split his squad up a little, which allowed me to pick off a few ties easier. I put a Damaged cockpit on Howl, which was big. i was able to control the ranges well, too, which helped to keep me from getting blocked. It came down to Jax vs both of my IGs at 2 hull left. I managed to get him down to 2 hull, then put a Minor explosion crit on him, and he rolled a hit to end it. Jax is definitely a pain to deal with, but I wanted to pull ships off of the board, so I shot at his other ties first and PS killed some of them before they could shoot me. maybe I should have gone after Jax instead, but I just wanted to reduce the number of shots coming my way. And I think i flew pretty well, too. Expert handling came up big as always a few times.

I dunno, I still think this is one of your worst match-ups (barring 4BZ of course). Bizarre that Carnor was left for the final round - I would have expected him to either die fast or do a ton of work. Glad it worked out for you though!

I know Manglers are just gravy against shieldless-ties but I would think that between blocking and stupid maneuverability, the ties would have a leg up. Maybe it's the HLC that tips the balance. It's strong enough to crack that 3-AGI or at least strip tokens, letting the mangler do the rest. Still though, you'd think a swarm could make it tough to get shots on the same ship.

Have you faced any Dash/yt-2400 variants that have given you trouble?

Honestly autothrusters have killed the pancake meta it seems. I haven't faced off against yts of either variety, but I think I can handle them.

haha I suppose. Still, you would think a barrel-rolling, boosting HLC would at least give forward-arc-only ships some pause. Then again, their support tends to be a bit lacking so that probably makes sense.

Honestly autothrusters have killed the pancake meta it seems. I haven't faced off against yts of either variety, but I think I can handle them.

I have played dual Aggressor against Dash on a few occasions.

Mangler Dash is not nearly as scary as HLC Dash for IG. HLC Dash is a threat that must be dealt with quickly. Autothrusters is about the only thing that keeps you from folding like tent in a windstorm in a match-up like this, because he's already rolling more dice than you. The good news is that a dual Aggressor list can lay some pretty serious pain on Outrider when it wants to. You do not have the problems keeping up with Dash that some other lists do because your ships already have boost (this is one matchup where you will wish you had IG-88C, though I have beaten HLC Dash with B and D before), but he's still an arc dodging fiend. You have to lay back at Range 3 and keep wide arcs on him that he can't escape. The HLC makes it a tough match, but it is one you can win because IG is able to generate more misses than Outrider between the extra green die and Autothrusters.

I haven't faced Han yet, but that seems like it would be a slightly easier match-up for dual Aggressor.

Dash is the easiest of the turrets due to the lack of gunner. Mangler version is especially weak against the aggressors. I hope to see him at the regionals on Saturday.

The decimator isn't too bad as it cant k-turn, so even with boost equipped, all you need to do is get behind it and it's reasonably simple to stay in arc. Rebel captive is an issue though.

Fat Han with gunner and predator is a pain in the arse though. His accuracy and damage prevention is frustrating. It becomes a game of a thousand cuts. The aggressors are a match for him though.

The first game was against a Chirpy/Fel list that is similar to the list that Paul beat me with, so I am glad to get more practice against lists like this. My goal was to focus down Chirpy, then try and get some shots on Fel. He brought Fel into the fray, though, and I managed to get shots on Fel without tokens for 2 consecutive rounds, though (hit himself first, then I blocked him next turn), and Fel without tokens goe3s down quickly, so then it was a matter of chasing down Chirpy and finishing him off. W 100-0

Enjoyed the game and your list. A friend asked to play against double Aggressors to practice for Regionals so I flew your list against him...very fun list to play. Was able to finally take out his "Panic Attack" list (something I have been able to do with my Chirpy & Fel).

My luck with super HLC Dash on dual agressors has been an uphill fight. In my experience I've had to consistently use TL and Focus to take a shield or two off. Dash can't keep that up all day, and the turns where I'm forced into unmodified or less modified shots just bounce.

My luck with super HLC Dash on dual agressors has been an uphill fight. In my experience I've had to consistently use TL and Focus to take a shield or two off. Dash can't keep that up all day, and the turns where I'm forced into unmodified or less modified shots just bounce.

This mirrors my experience flying against Dash with dual Aggressor. If he has TL+F with his HLC, I'm going to take some hits barring statistically aberrant dice. If he has only one or the other - and I am at max range - I have a pretty good chance of getting off scott-free.

So here was our set up. I have the lower pilot skill level, so I set up first in my usual way.

He set up top, so I figured Fel would 5 forward and chirpy was free to go wherever he wanted. So I turned B in to meet fel while I brought D fast to flank. As it turned out, he turned his Chirpy in to the middle and separated him from Fel, which was wise so that Chripy wouldn't limit Fel's movement options.

One of my mistakes happened here. I did a 1 turn with B, which I think was the right call, but I didn't know how fast he was going to go with Fel, so I didn't boost when I should have. Boosting here sets me up a shot, and sets me up better for next round. I went slow with D to give myself a wide arc on chirpy. As it was, he turned Fel into the middle of the board away from B and actually into D's firing arc, so with the HLC I managed to take 1 shield off of fel. He managed 1 damage and a vader on D.

Next round I wanted to try and get behind a stressed Fel, so I did 3 right turn sloops with both of mine. Unfortunately this gave B another round without a shot, which is another reason the boost last round would have been better. He planted RAC on a rock, and arc dodged with soontir, so he didn't have a shot at me, although i only had 1 hlc shot at RAC.

Next round I tried to capture fel in both of my arcs, by doing a 1 right bank and a 3 right bank, but Fel only did a 1 turn and BR out of the way, so I didn't get a shot with either of my ships. It was quite evident by this point that I was being wildly outflown by the master. He kept up the barrage on D.

Again I tried to get arcs on fel and did 3 right bank sloop with both of mine, and again he evaded my arcs, so I took 2 shots at RAC and got him down to 2 hull left, with some blanks in there, which hurt because I had 2 4-0 shots that could have killed him there. because he vadered D to get him down to 1 hull.