Just finished a game vs Parakitor on vassal. He ran 3 deltas with ion cannons. I ran this list:

IG88B with VI, Mangler, AT, SJ, title, ID
IG88D with Lone Wolf, hlc, SJ, title, ID, AT

Thoughts:

1. i screwed up the set up, i think. I could have done that better. I realized this early on in the game, too, so I need to work on that.

2. Because of my poor set up, I wasn't able to use Lone wolf early on at all. My IG's got stuck next to each other and stayed there for a while, which is exactly the way to lose with them.

3. Defenders are the perfect counter to my list, as he is able to k-turn and focus, making SJ more worthless. I think if he runs any other ship, I avoid a lot more damage due to SJ.

4. VI did nothing for me this game, although Determination wouldn't have either, because I pulled a damaged engine instead of a pilot crit.

5. He played well, blocked me on a key K-turn. And made me come through the asteroids, which I shouldn't have done. I didn't hit any, but it made me more predictable.

6. I was more afraid of his ions than I should have been, but it was vassal, and my green dice are always bad on vassal.

7. Final thought: B is 48 points here. I think I may trade him out for 4 Z's and see what I think of that, if I can do the lone wolf thing better or not.

My feeling with lone wolf is that it will turn off for at least 2 turns per game (possibly more). Its impossible to point at your enemies and not have your ships get closer to each other eventually. I would feel that 4 z-95s are going to make it even harder to keep Lone Wolf 'on' because they take up slightly more area than a big base and if ever you are forced to split them, it will get increasingly more difficult to keep your IG beyond R2 of all your ships.

I see Lonewolf more as an investment for late game (if the ship survive) than something that will be useful all game long.

In a 2 large base ships build, you can still get some use out of it from time to time, but mix with a mini-swarm, I would try to find the points for Predator instead. Much more reliable, and deadly against the eventual swarm that you will encounter.

Other thought, if you are to drop a IG in your build, I would drop D instead of B, and maybe rework your upgrades. I find B second attack much more useful than D hard Loop.

Are you thinking of dropping IG88B for the Zs because of the game with Parakitor, or because of other games. If the first is the reason, do you think Defenders are really prevalent enough in competitive play to merit changing a list because of a weakness to them (aside from nuts like me)?

That aside, it seems if you're going for a single IG with Sensor Jammer, there has to be a place for Palob in the list. Bare minimum Palob with Blaster Turret could take the place of 2 Z-95s. Even if Lone Wolf didn't activate, the IG2000 would be super tough because of the increased prevalence of Sensor Jammer. You'd want to shoot at him before Lone Wolf could activate, but you really couldn't because stupid Palob would be stealing your tokens, so you'd be forced to shoot Palob with target lock for a turn or two while the IG's HLC is pounding away. I guess you could also drop a Z and make Palob a little fiercer/tougher with some more upgrades, because there's really no way to get to the IG while he's around.

IG88 of your choice, Lone Wolf, HLC, SJ, ID, AT = 52

Palob 20, Blaster Turret 4, Moldy Crow 3, Shield Upgrade 4, Recon Specialist 3 = 34

Cartel Spacer 14

You could downgrade the Spacer to a Z95 to get 2 points toward an EPT on Palob, but I'm not sure about the right one, maybe scrounge another point for Predator? If you found 2 points you could do Opportunist, but Palob is already drawing so much heat. I went with the Spacer originally because it's a better blocker than the Pirate, and blocking to deny actions is pretty useful with Sensor Jammer (although being a better blocker is its own reward).

Sorry, I just started brainstorming.

I've been thinking about how to try and beat double IGs, a lot actually. And I think it comes down to plain old action denial, and having a swarm of shots helps, too. So here is my current squad, named "Iggy Pop":

IG88B with Mangler, VI (or Determination, still deciding), AT, SJ, ID
X2 Binayre Pirate with Feedback Array
X2 Binayre Pirate

The thought is my Feedback array Z's are up front. They act as my blockers, and can still damage you if you run into them. The other 2 take pot shots, and IG stays in the back taking long range shots. My blocking should help make Sensor Jammer more effective. I played 2 games with it today, and won both.

First game was against a Double Firespray list, Kath with PtL and a Merc with Wingman. That one came down to 1 hull Kath and 1 hull Merc vs my 1 hull Pirate with FA and 1 hull IG with an Injured pilot Crit (ran VI instead. REALLY wish I would have had Determination.) My pirate was able to block Kath onto a debris field, but he didn't roll a crit. He also had the Merc at Range 1, so I was trying to make the epic move of taking out both Kath and the Merc with my Zapper in the same move, but it didn't work because he didn't roll a crit. So I ended up Zapping Kath anyway, so that it was my PS6 IG (due to injured pilot) against his PS5 Merc. I shot first, so I won that one.

Then I played a game against a Soontir/Jax/BH build, and this time I put determination back on. Turns out he didn't need it. I was able to Zap both Jax and Fel for the killing blows on both. The BH went down after Jax did, but then Soontir did Soontir things for a solid 6-7 rounds before I was able to hit him and finish him off with a zap.

Overall I like the squad. It has good range control, which I talk about in my latest Team Covenant post here. I think I'm going to play more with it next week, and take it to Iowa City with me for the Campaign Against Cancer Tournament.

Edit: Just finished a game on Vassal against Carlos running Biggs, Keyan, and Wedge. Dead Man's switch would have been way more useful in this build over FA, so I may try that out in my next game. And my IG rolled exactly 2 evades for the entire game, which is why I absolutely despise vassal over playing on the table. And again I pulled an injured pilot on IG, so I am really leaning more towards Determination instead. I lost that game, but man I just hate vassal dice. I don't know that I would have done much differently. I guess I just need to learn to fly Z's better.

Edit 2: or maybe just swap out the Z's for Y's.

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/226066/scrapyard

With Kavil AB at PS 9 and a Warthog, I may get better damage out of them than I did the Z's.

Just finished a vassal game with "Scrapyard" against a Dash and 2 Greens with Outmaneuver and Predator. I ended up winning that one. The warthog did solid damage to Dash and locked him down for a few rounds. Kavil was great at creating an area buff, and finished off a Green at Range 1. IG finished Dash off for the win. Solid squad all around, I think. Now I need to figure out which asteroids to bring. I brought debris, but against Dash, debris is worthless, so I need to bring asteroids, i think. I like it, though. I think the squad is coming along nicely. Jammer didn't work against his recon specialist on dash, until he got a damaged engine near the board edge. It did make him spend one of his 2 focus tokens, though, each round, so he had one less for defense.

Determination didn't come up, but very easily could have because he brought a mangler cannon on Dash. Plus with the debris, it might have mattered if I rolled a crit. VI would have been nice to set up and move/shoot before Dash, but I'll stick with determination for now.

Edit: Vassal game number 2 today. This time I changed it up a little, as Kavil really needs to have engine upgrade in order to get the ranges he needs. But that meant downgrading the warthog to a Thug with Autoblaster turret and taking Dampeners off of IG.

IG88B with Determination, Ion cannon, Flechette cannon, Sensor Jammer, Autothrusters
Kavil with Unhinged astromech, Veteran Instincts, Autoblaster turret, engine
Thug with Autoblaster turret

I also tried out different cannons on my IG. I have been finding that people tend to let 1 hit get through with the mangler cannon, especially if they have a shield. So I figured I would see if I could put some use to flechette cannon combined with Ion cannon to give me some freedom. They both worked out well. If the target wasn't stressed, I would use flechette. If he was, I would use ion, so it worked rather nicely.

I played against a Boba/IG list that was pretty tough, although I didn't lose a ship. My IG was down to 2 hull left, and if he would have dropped his proximity mine earlier in the game, it would almost have killed IG. To see what would have happened, I rolled hit/crit, which would have killed him, BUT the crit was blinded pilot, so I would have been able to discard it due to determination and live with 1 hull. Boba was tough, even with my cannon reroll ability. He played well and got the evades on his rerolls to evade my cannon shots, one of which would have put the second ion on him, aiming him right where he dropped his prox mine. But he evaded BOTH ion shots that round, so he missed the mine.

Engine was absolutely necessary on Kavil, so I may keep the squad as is for now. Again I used every single upgrade card and ability that I had, so everything was worth having. Sensor Jammer is so critical to the success of my IG that I couldn't imagine running it with anything else. He brought Autoblasters on both Boba and IG©, and Jammer definitely saved me from some hits.

I will try it out on the table tomorrow and see what I think there, but I think I'm finally getting to some support for IG that I like.

There are many viable Ept options for IGs. Theorist likes advanced sensors with expert handling on his for the positional aspects. And yes, vi and ptl are both good, depending on the build. But with so much ps9+ out there still, vi on an ig has limitations on its usefulness. The meta mindset is still 9+ or no bid at all, and going from 6 to 8 will sometimes pay off and sometimes not.

The case for determination:

1. Most of you are singing the praises of mangler cannon, so it's prevalence is increasing.

2. Vader crew is an effective way to get reliable damage on an ig.

3. Proton bombs are also more prevalent nowadays, with emon and ywings being able to carry them.

4. Etahn, Greedo, even Ten Nunb with mangler are still around.

5. None of the pilot crits are good for igs.

6. It completely discards the card, so it is another way to save those precious 8 total hull in the build.

Although your point about my opponent taking focus anyway is valid, so that makes me want to drop C for palob. I'll tinker and come up with something tonight. Maybe palob with ion and a warthog.

Actually, maybe I'll try B with determination and drop dampeners on C and put lone wolf on C. See what I think of that.

Determination pays off easily in this meta. Especially at its cost.

There are many viable Ept options for IGs. Theorist likes advanced sensors with expert handling on his for the positional aspects. And yes, vi and ptl are both good, depending on the build. But with so much ps9+ out there still, vi on an ig has limitations on its usefulness. The meta mindset is still 9+ or no bid at all, and going from 6 to 8 will sometimes pay off and sometimes not.

The case for determination:

1. Most of you are singing the praises of mangler cannon, so it's prevalence is increasing.

2. Vader crew is an effective way to get reliable damage on an ig.

3. Proton bombs are also more prevalent nowadays, with emon and ywings being able to carry them.

4. Etahn, Greedo, even Ten Nunb with mangler are still around.

5. None of the pilot crits are good for igs.

6. It completely discards the card, so it is another way to save those precious 8 total hull in the build.

Although your point about my opponent taking focus anyway is valid, so that makes me want to drop C for palob. I'll tinker and come up with something tonight. Maybe palob with ion and a warthog.

Actually, maybe I'll try B with determination and drop dampeners on C and put lone wolf on C. See what I think of that.

Determination pays off easily in this meta. Especially at its cost.

Two games tonight against Simonsays running Keyan with 4 Protos.

First game I set the IG up to joust. He got blocked round 2, took some damage, lived for a few more rounds, ioning Keyan, making him much less effective. My AB turrets this game rolled mostly either blanks or Crits, which he easily evaded. I managed to kill Keyan and an A-wing, but lost the game in the end. Two of the cards that were dealt as hits to the IG were Pilot crits, so if either of those were flipped up, IG lives longer. I'm sold on determination.

Second game I set the IG up to flank. He turned his A-wings in to face the IG at range 1. This game was better dice-wise for me, as my AB turrets were hitting better. I ended up winning that one in the end with Kavil at 2 hull left.

Thoughts:

1. Against a 2-3 ship list, IG shines. Against a Rebel Swarm, not so much.

2. The cannon choices: Ion was key against Keyan, keeping him pointed where I wanted him to be. But against the A-wings, I was having trouble hitting them at all. I definitely am giving up damage potential for control.

3. Jammer,wasn't as good here, because this is about the worst possible list that I could face off against with my squad. Keyan with a bunch of PS1 A-wings, so he never lacked for focus tokens.

4. Action denial hurt my IG for sure. He was able to just about block every conceivable maneuver with his A-wings.

5. I guess I should add, I miss Dampeners on ig. Maybe I drop flechette for ID and an unhinged on the thug.

And even with the odds against me, I still managed to pull off the win in the second game with Kavil, so maybe there is something to this squad. 32-point Kavil is a beast.

Gonna try this one out next.

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/227151/ks-warthog

I liked Kavil as he was. I think a warthog will be better than a 48 point IG for the ion. And I'm bringing in Kath with EH instead of IG, so I think it will suit me better. Better damage output overall, I think, and I can fly Kath better than I can an IG.

Gonna try this one out next.

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/227151/ks-warthog

I liked Kavil as he was. I think a warthog will be better than a 48 point IG for the ion. And I'm bringing in Kath with EH instead of IG, so I think it will suit me better. Better damage output overall, I think, and I can fly Kath better than I can an IG.

I like this list. The 32 Kavil is definitely a scary prospect. I've used it once now and not only is the damage decent, but the threat of him seems to attract the most enemy attention, so he kinda acts as a 'biggs' too.

But, the real question is, does that k list beat this one?

IG88B and IG88D with Mangler, sensor Jammer, AT, ID, Determination, seismic, title

Sensor jammer IGs are definitely tough to take down.

Edit: And along those lines of thinking, I made this:

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/227400/yin-and-yang

I cannot begin to say how ridiculously happy this squad makes me. This is what I hope to test out tonight.

I may have to try and get a game in with you if I am around tonight. :-)

So, MJ and I just finished our game. He ran his IGB and D vs mine. I really like my build, even though I lost the game. Again the vassal greens rolled lower than expected, and his B had 2 hull left at the end, so it was close. It was an interesting game, with me giving him the init so that I could use my maneuvering shenanigans to better effect. I am just not used to AdvS and SoT, though, and I could have played that better. The stress hurt, so I need to be more selective about when I use SoT. I also missed a key block in the game by a little, so that hurt, too.

The build is so different, though, that I may take it to Iowa City this Saturday and see how it does on the table.

Just finished a game with Yin and Yang against a 4 ship Rebel build. I had some really hot attack dice, but the squad did exactly what I built it to do.

I set up split, took D fast to flank while B went slow.

He split his forces up some. I'm not entirely sure what he was thinking there.

He landed an X-wing on a rock. I turned D into the fray, and moved B past his front X-wing. The B-wing was too far back, so I only took 1 shot in return. I promptly wiped the rocked X-wing off the board.

I brought D in to the middle and boosted, still only giving him one shot. And my B got past his B-wing to avoid fire there.

And then this is where I did what I built the squad to do: He had moved here.

So I did an Advanced Sensor Boost left with D. Then revealed a 3 sloop, and used Stay on Target and D's ability to change that to a 3 right turn Sloop.

It worked more beautifully than I had imagined, because I killed the X-wing, which was his only ship with a shot. Then it was a matter of picking off the other 2 for the win. It really felt good to fly this squad against a 4-ship Rebel build that was all PS2. It did exactly what I designed it to do, hot attack dice aside. That makes me feel better about flying it this Saturday.

Doug, your willingness to produce this journal is great and it has gotten me to break free from my traditional "brick/tanky" playstyle and try out the defensive dual IG list. Mine is slightly different from yours and I'm loving it so far. Keep it up!

Doug, your willingness to produce this journal is great and it has gotten me to break free from my traditional "brick/tanky" playstyle and try out the defensive dual IG list. Mine is slightly different from yours and I'm loving it so far. Keep it up!

Thanks! I tried to get some pics and analysis up of my game with juggler, but photobucket wasn't playing nicely this morning. I'll try and get on here later when I can.

I'm gonna try and upload my pics of my game with Major Juggler. Mine are the IG's in yellow. I will add thoughts and analysis later.

Ok, so this is my game with Major Juggler. He was flying IG88B and D, both with Outmaneuver, HLC, Autothrusters, IG title, and FCS. I gave him the initiative so that I could better react to his moves with Stay on Target and Advanced Sensors. He set up with his 2 IG's facing each other. I set up in the opposite corner, so that I could go fast with D and slower with B. I took B 1 forward, not knowing what he was going to do, and I took D 3 forward and boosted.

Second round. I could see that his B was staying where it was, and his D would quickly get away from it. So he was presenting me with a target of his D. I had thought his B would come hard or risk not getting a shot, so I was prepared to go toe to toe with each of them. My B did a 1 bank and focus, and with D I selected a 3 forward.

He did a 1 bank with B, taking him slower than I thought he would. This meant I could get 2 shots on D and only have 1 shot back. And this was where I made one of my mistakes this game. What I did was Advanced Sensor focus, then used Stay on target to change the 3 forward to a 3 bank.It was a mistake because it stressed my D. What I should have done instead was do a Advanced Sensor boost right, then done the 3 forward. It would have put me in about the same position, but not stressed, which was a big deal.

My 2 (well, 4) shots only did 1 damage to him, which was far less than I expected. His moves gave me shots on D, and I used Dampeners on my D to make sure I had 2 shots on his. My 1 fwd was really close to the rock, and my 1 bank, which I selected would not have given me a shot, and he would have been able to use Outmaneuver with both of his ships against mine. So I decided for the double stress to stay where I was.

This next turn, I tried to block myself, giving me 2 more shots on his D, hopefully pulling it off of the board. But I did a 1 bank, which wasn't far enough, and I didn't end up blocking myself, thus running into him, so my D didn't get another shot for the rest of the game. That was mistake #2 for me.

He did a green, staying where he was. My B did a 4K to get behind him, and D did a 3 bank to try and get some distance. But with Structural damage and outmaneuver, it wasn't long before my D was off the baord. Fortunately, I was able to pull his D off the board, too.

Which set up this:

I was in a good position, but I was down 3 shields.I figured he would turn into me, so I did a 1 bank to relieve stress.

Next round we both 4K. I thought it might take us out of range, but it didn't, barely. We each did 1 more damage to each other. I needed to joust with him not only to get shots on him, but also to make his outmaneuver worthless.

Next round we both went slow forward to relieve stress. I put 2 damage on him, and he did 1 to me. I knew I would be better at close range due to him not being able to get a second shot if he didn't hit, and I had Lone Wolf and sensor jammer still active. But I could get a second shot with my mangler if I didn't hit him.

I figured he would 4K, and I knew I didn't want another Range 3 exchange with his hlc, so I did a 1 turn and boost to get another close range exchange. I had 3 hull, so with Jammer and 1 evade, I get better position on him , and can finish him off next round.

And that's when my green dice had the last laugh. Eye, blank blank, vs his 3 hits, lone wolf reroll to blank, so he won. but if I get a single evade there, I think I pull it out due to my better positioning and him being stressed.

It was a close game, where I rolled below expected on defense, which is killer to IGs. I did make a few mistakes, so I need to work on the decision-making with SoT and AdvS beter.

Two more games last night with Yin and Yang vs Vader and 2 Sigmas. I was able to pick off the sigmas in both games, taking little damage in return. Then it was just a matter of getting Vader down and out. It was good practice for tomorrow. I'm starting to get better about when to use Stay on Target and Advanced Sensors. I feel better about the list, and I think I can do well with it tomorrow in Iowa City.

Good luck Doug!

Good luck Doug!

what HE said.

Thanks guys. I'll write a tournament recap on here tomorrow or maybe Sunday.

I played a game vs mrfroggies today. He won that one, but again he said he didn't so much win it, as I lost it on dice. I was flying really well, limiting his shots, but I was getting exactly 1 evade or less on defense for the first 60% of the game, so he was plinking away at me, which turned out to be critical in the end. He wasn't able to predict where I was going to be much of the time, and he really liked my squad. So, I think there is something to it. It was working as designed, so I'm gonna stick with it. And during the game he was seeing the beauty in the squad as well.

Won my first game 100-0 vs Brett flying dual IGs. He is running:

B with ptl, AdvS, AT, ID, title, mangler

C with ptl, AdvS, AT, ID, title, mangler, seismic

I did have hot attack dice, but I was using tl often with D, who flanked while he went after B. B had 1 hull left at the end of the game, and D was untouched.

Next up is Victor. Yes, Victor and I were randomly put into the same round robin pod.

Edit: beat Victor 100-0. He is running double IGs as well.

B with hlc, predator, AT, AdvS, title

C with mangler, predator, AT, AdvS, ID, title

I am finding that I forget lone wolf more than I should be. I have won the coin toss in both games and given it to my opponent both times. It has been important in both games to move second. I am thinking about dropping ID on B for an init bid.

Next up is Rich playing:

Soontir with ptl, AT

Echo with VI, gunner, fcs, acd

Saber with ptl, AT.

Won that game 100-0 as well. It was tough, and I still forgot about lone wolf. GAH!!!!

In the top 4 round, I faced Chris running a triple interceptor list.

Fel with hull, ptl, AT
Turr with vi, AT, hull
Jax with ptl, hull, AT

Chris did great staying out of my arcs, I made 1 mistake with D, and rolled 0 evades with D. The attacks I did get only did 3 damage to jax, so I lost 100-0. He flew them well, for sure.

Then in the final game, I faced Kyle running a double firespray list:

Scum fett with greedo, wingman, hlc
Kath with ptl, recon specialist, hlc

I was able to focus down fett early. I hit too many rocks this game, but I only lost B, so I won 100-49.