I'm just curious, say that you want to run Echo or Whisper, but for whatever reason you don't want to run them with Veteran Instincts. How would you kit either of them out? What EPT would you give them now that the slot is open?

I'm just curious, say that you want to run Echo or Whisper, but for whatever reason you don't want to run them with Veteran Instincts. How would you kit either of them out? What EPT would you give them now that the slot is open?

Outmanoeuvre would be my first choice.

That would be nasty:)

In fun games if you know you'll be the highest ps on the board, expose with fcs and ACD would be a interesting combo.

I don't even bother with VI on Echo.

I'll be willing to bet most people fall to their crutch of Predator. I seriously favor Outmaneuver. A Phantom is really good at getting out of arcs when flown well.

Echo with Push the Limit, Advanced Sensors, Recon Specialist, and ACD is easily the most ridiculous ship that has ever graced the table.

Predator is good on anything, if you've sucked it up and bought a Defender to get it. Outmaneuver is a nasty piece of work.

I think Push the Limit has some potential, actually, just for weird tactical flexibility. Advanced Cloaking Device grants a cloak action, so you could hold off and PtL off that, basically turning your Echo or Whisper into Turr Phennir in a Phantom. I've been thinking about running this, actually, just for the shenanigans on Whisper, especially with Fire Control Systems. Shooting gets you, y'know, a handful of red dice, but then also a free Target Lock/Cloak/Focus/Barrel Roll-or-Evade, all in one.

Decloak, then double focus + PtL action of choice (barrel roll is especially ridiculous, but evade is always nice). Or, Double Focus + PtL Barrel roll THEN decloak, or decloak move and take your actions after moving. Follow up with a 2 bank, and Echo can turn 90 degrees, start from 21 different positions, and end in 40 different locations facing two 90 degree shifted directions, all of these choices being made AFTER watching the opponent move his low PS ships. If you consider that you also need to guess her dial, it gets even more silly. Good luck blocking that, and even if you do manage to block it Echo still gets her actions.

Imagining that VI is outright not an option (housebanned on the Phantom or something)...

Outmaneuver. Intel Agent in the crew slot.

Come to think of it, Intelligence Agent Outmaneuver Echo might be worth a shot even if VI was an option...

Given everyone brings the gear to take down phantoms anyway, how much benefit does VI have?

Imagining that VI is outright not an option (housebanned on the Phantom or something)...

Outmaneuver. Intel Agent in the crew slot.

Come to think of it, Intelligence Agent Outmaneuver Echo might be worth a shot even if VI was an option...

Funny you should mention it. I've been thinking about Sigma 6. So the base is (from what I've learned):

Sigma w/ Intel Agent, Enhanced Scope + Stygium Particle Accelerator x 2 (29 x 2 = 58 pts).

With 42 points you could take:

Echo w/ VI, ACD, FCS + Gunner. Which looks pretty nasty, except with only 1 token (probably evade) for defense, he's pretty vulnerable to opposing gunners.

So I was thinking perhaps:

Echo w/ outmanoeuvre + ACD, FCS & recon specialist

Might be better?

No

VI only actually gives you the edge on PS7 and PS8, so you're still full on Echoing anything lower, you're just sacrificing the ability to arcdodge Dash et al but you could block him instead...

Not a fan of Gunner on Phantoms, they're high attack ships and that works against Gunner a little. To Gun you've got to miss, one damage punched through's still a hit.

I've been actually contemplating the idea of running Echo with Outmaneuver and Intelligent Agent. PS8 is really in a odd spot and I wonder just how much it is actually useful for her.

I think there's an argument with echo fir just keeping her cheap. 34 points with ACD only. that way if someone comes at you with a big PS bid that would beat a full tooled up echo anyway you're not on for an auto loss without her. let's you fit an extra TIE in your list over a tooled up whisper.

I think there's an argument with echo fir just keeping her cheap. 34 points with ACD only. that way if someone comes at you with a big PS bid that would beat a full tooled up echo anyway you're not on for an auto loss without her. let's you fit an extra TIE in your list over a tooled up whisper.

Yeah, but technically VI is only one point more and could save your butt. If I don't take VI, that's to take another EPT. That's not one point that will suddenly make losing her an autoloss.

Yeah, it's not really justifiable to leave a phantom's EPT empty if you can stick VI in it unless it makes a critical difference elsewhere.

I've actually been playing around with the idea of Lone Wolf on Echo. Like TIE Pilot said, you've got a chance of running into Dash or Corran without VI and now you're moving first, but with the numbers behind Han, Whisper, Soontir, and soon Vader as well, I don't think VI on Echo is going to be as big a deal moving forward.

The question really becomes, if the Phantom isn't taking the PS bid, what do you bring with it? I feel like a mass of bodies would work well simply to block big ships, but you could easily bring along a high-PS Ace, or even a turret. If you've got Chiraneau with an Engine Upgrade, would Echo at PS6 even be that big a difference?

Echo with Push the Limit, Advanced Sensors, Recon Specialist, and ACD is easily the most ridiculous ship that has ever graced the table.

This is actually what I was thinking of toying around with, except with Intel Agent instead of Recon, and Stygium Particle Accelerator instead of ACD (so I guess not really the same thing at all, but still).

Equipped like that, Echo basically becomes either the best arc-dodger or the best blocker in the game, depending on whether your opponent's ships' Pilot Skill levels.

Whipser with Recon Specialst and Lone Wolf?

I'm not convinced that Recon Specialist is the best choice for Whisper- she's already getting a free focus for defense when she hits with her attacks. For her (or echo, even) I think I like the idea of Mara Jade or Tactician. Get behind them and then stress them so they can't turn around and get a shot on you.

In fact, I like that a lot. I think I'll try some variation of that tonight...

You still have to watch for turrets and wingmen, of course, so perhaps fly your phantom along with TIEs for blocking and/or piling attack dice on turrets.

I used Elusiveness to good effect on Echo before. I didn't find the stress crippled movement.

I've also played against a PTL + Engine Upgrade named Phantom (don't recall which) run by a player new to the Phantom, and he managed to give me a headache despite never having run it before.

I also like Outmaneuver, especially with Echo's banked decloaks. Also Navigator for completely crazy "Guess Where I'm Going!" antics.

Echo with Push the Limit, Advanced Sensors, Recon Specialist, and ACD is easily the most ridiculous ship that has ever graced the table.

In addition to being hilariously good against lower-PS ships, the ability to just generate a pile of tokens or ram without losing actions makes it more robust against turrets than pretty much any other Echo build.

The issue with Echo at PS6 is that you're giving all of the strong pilots at PS8 freedom to shoot at Echo without having to deal with one of arc dodging or cloaking.

That said, I've been interested in trying a Lone Wolf, Sensor Jammer, Recspec, ADC loadout. Maybe after store champ season.

Guys, guys (and gals), what you're forgetting is that if you drop VI you can also drop the ACD and not feel bad about it because you're not gonna be shooting first anyway. Instead Stygium Particle and PTL for mass shenanigans.

Guys, guys (and gals), what you're forgetting is that if you drop VI you can also drop the ACD and not feel bad about it because you're not gonna be shooting first anyway. Instead Stygium Particle and PTL for mass shenanigans.

Except more than half the point of ACD is to let you DEcloak every turn and to not waste your normal action to do so. ACD lets you both attack and decloak every turn. It would probably still be worth it even if it didn't trigger until the end phase.

Guys, guys (and gals), what you're forgetting is that if you drop VI you can also drop the ACD and not feel bad about it because you're not gonna be shooting first anyway. Instead Stygium Particle and PTL for mass shenanigans.

Stygium/PTL Echo is my very favorite. ptl barrel rolls into green moves woo!

Then I land on a rock.