I'll repeat something I said earlier - FFG has already established a faction that includes Han, Lando and the shadier side of the Rebellion - it's called Smugglers and Spies (from the LCG). No reason they couldn't add a 4th faction down the road and do everything being discussed in this thread.

Because what ships would it have? The Rebels have stolen all their pilots and ships. It exists in the LCG because Scum and Villainy needed a lightside mirror. LCG also has Sith and Jedi factions, and nobody expects to see them.

Smugglers and Spies is not a faction in the sense of X-wing, it's one of the three classes under the Light Side faction.

In the LCG, Scum and Villainy are the dark side aligned criminal element, and Smugglers and Spies are the light.

In Imperial Assault Campaign, Scum and Villiany are generally a criminal element with loose ties to the Empire. In Imperial Assault Skirmish either side can recruit them as far as I know. The lightsider Scum are part of the Rebels.

In Armada, Scum and Villainy are rolled into the Empire, and "Rogues" rolled into the Rebels.

In X-wing, Scum and Villainy is opposed to both Rebel and Imperial interests fighting both (FFG went to great lengths to establish this). Therefore, a fourth faction is then logically fighting and being fought by all three.

Smugglers and Spies is part of the Rebel faction in all but the LCG, where it splits off for parity only. It's not realistic as a fourth faction, and the "the LCG does it so X-wing will" logic also gives us a Sith and Jedi X-wing faction.

I'm not saying X-Wing will do it. I'm only suggesting that there is a way to get a new Han/Lando YT-1300 without forcing them into Scum & Villainy, where - I think it has been adequately argued - they don't belong.

I'm not saying X-Wing will do it. I'm only suggesting that there is a way to get a new Han/Lando YT-1300 without forcing them into Scum & Villainy, where - I think it has been adequately argued - they don't belong.

I wouldn't listen to fools who think they are better designers than FFG staff.

Um... this seems like a bit of an own-goal on your part.

I can see how a stupid person would think that if they didn't know the difference

between criticizing the Lambda and calling it crap after it won the US nationals,

versus designing something different or a variant that compliments FFG's work.

How dumb is that though really, defending someone who says the Lambda sucks,

after it was part of a list that just won the US nationals.

I'm not defending anyone. The Lambda is an enormously cost-effective ship with a terrible dial; if you can deal with the dial, there's a huge upside waiting for you. Lots of people have demonstrated that.

What I was trying to point out, with tongue in cheek, is that anyone with a high opinion of his or her own homebrew is more likely to be a victim of the Dunning-Kruger effect than a talented designer. That's something I carry around from bad experiences with tabletop RPGs, but I haven't seen anything in X-wing that disproves it: for every idea that makes me go "hmm, that's interesting", there are nine or ten that are obviously, eye-rollingly bad but ardently defended by their originators.

(And honestly I'm not sure it's that different for the pros, either, except that (a) their hit rate is probably better than 9-10% and (b) they have other experienced, professional colleagues who can reliably help identify and discard the misses, and then refine and develop the hits.)

hey guys,

just something I would like to address in general:

we are all speculating on things, we are all chiming in with stuff we would like to see, could we at least be civil to one another.

flat out verbally smacking someone's idea in the face is a bit rude.

we had people fantasizing about capitol ships, some people got ugly towards them for saying it, guess what, we now have 3 (technically)

people wanted a third faction, those discussions got ugly on occasion, guess what, we have 3 factions.

no one is telling FFG they have to do this or that, we are just sharing what we think would be cool and if we see it, that's awesome, if we don't, then we don't.

ok, we all love this game, or we wouldn't be here talking about it, lets just try to keep it civil, as we all share the sickness this game is,

7 - core sets

3 - TIE fighters

5 - TIE adv.

8 - TIE int

2 - Imp. Aces

2 - shuttles

3 - firespray

3 TIE defender

3 - TIE phantom

4 - TIE bomber

2- decimator

1 - xwing

4 - ywing

3 - awing

3 - yt-1300

3 - bwing

2 - hwk

2 - ewing

2 - z95

1 - transport

1 - tantive

1 - yt-2400

1 - rebel aces

2 - aggressors

4 - m3a int.

2 star vipers

2 - most wanted

see, its a sickness..................

I'm not saying X-Wing will do it. I'm only suggesting that there is a way to get a new Han/Lando YT-1300 without forcing them into Scum & Villainy, where - I think it has been adequately argued - they don't belong.

You're missing his point, it just doesn't fit the alignments in X-wing. I've seen this discussion come up before. and it's as odd as having a faction called "Gunners & Navigators," it's not a real faction, they are jobs.

That's a fair point. I think you could cobble together the Talon Karrdes and Mirax Terriks of the galaxy into a faction that's Rebellion-sympathetic but still independent. But you'd be correct that they aren't as mercenary as the S&V crew, and it might be odd seeing them in conflict with Rebel ships.

I'm not saying X-Wing will do it. I'm only suggesting that there is a way to get a new Han/Lando YT-1300 without forcing them into Scum & Villainy, where - I think it has been adequately argued - they don't belong.

You're missing his point, it just doesn't fit the alignments in X-wing. I've seen this discussion come up before. and it's as odd as having a faction called "Gunners & Navigators," it's not a real faction, they are jobs.

That's a fair point. I think you could cobble together the Talon Karrdes and Mirax Terriks of the galaxy into a faction that's Rebellion-sympathetic but still independent. But you'd be correct that they aren't as mercenary as the S&V crew, and it might be odd seeing them in conflict with Rebel ships.

The problem, as I see it, is that for every Talon Karrde and Mirax Terrik there's a Han Solo or a Drea Renthal--a pilot that would logically fall into a Smugglers & Spies faction, but has already been printed as a Rebel or a member of Scum & Villainy. You wouldn't be looking at reprinting two pilots, but a couple of handfuls of them.

And the problem of a match that pits Han Solo in the Millennium Falcon against the Rebellion is problematic... although no more so than mirror matches in general.

well the golden rule of gaming is

Gameplay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything else

so if FFG deems a scum turret necessary (jesus I hope not) they'll find a way to put it in, fluff be damned

And the problem of a match that pits Han Solo in the Millennium Falcon against the Rebellion is problematic... although no more so than mirror matches in general.

Yeah, that doesn't bother me any more than Scum Boba Fett vs. Imperial Boba Fett.

so if FFG deems a scum turret necessary...

Honestly I'll be shocked if we make it to wave 8 without one. There's plenty of options out there for one, such as the YT-2000.

In Imperial Assault Skirmish either side can recruit them as far as I know. The lightsider Scum are part of the Rebels.

No, only the Empire can recruit merc's, and it costs them one point to do so. Merc's on the other hand can recruit Rebel troops also for one point.

Well why not, but the Stellar Envoy technically is the Falcon. Which statline would you use for that ship then?

...also I wouldn't mind seeing the Stellar Envoy as one of the other YT-1300 configurations

for the ship before the crash, as who would know if they don't say which configuration it was.

Also because of the configuration on the left, with the side turret, I would go as high as four turrets.

"YT-1300 variants from Galaxy Guide 6: Tramp Freighters "

actually, the more I think about it, the more I think the generic yt-1300 should be identical to ors.

but each named one should be different in some fashion then the others,

1 could have more powerful guns but 1 less sheild

1 could have an armored hull +2, but loses 360 turret

1 could have a sensor upgrade slot, or a droid slot

stuff that makes them unique, because there is no such thing as a stock freighter in the underworld

Agree in principle - although I'm not sure if it would be better to keep the generic Outer Rim Smuggler stat line on the cards and use title cards to change abilities. i.e. Selu (you may replace a crew slot with a salvaged astromech slot), Sabra (gain the systems upgrade slot) etc.

My main gripe with the Rebel named pilots is that they all use a statline clearly intended to represent the Millennium Falcon , but you can field Han and Chewie, Lando and Chewie etc. I would have preferred if the increase in attack, shield & hull had been part of the Millennium Falcon title card, so only one could be fielded at any one time.

It does make you wonder why they didn't make a 10 point card to give those pilots a falcon stat-line but I think their reason was valid.For one the stat line is printed on the tiles. Now sure there are modifications that change the stat but those are a single stat and only by 1. The falcon stat line increase is 1 firepower, 2 hull ,1 shields plus a missile upgrade. So instead they just added in the cost for the pilots.

In an essence the Falcon has 2 ships, the YT-1300 stock with the ORS which made it the cheapest large ship until wave 3 coming out with the shuttle being the only large ship that is cheaper then the ORS as well as the most expensive ship with Han costing the same number of points as RAdm Cherenue.

I still get a laugh whenever people advocate for even MORE turret primary ships in the game, in more factions.

I wouldn't listen to fools who think they are better designers than FFG staff.

Um... this seems like a bit of an own-goal on your part.

I can see how a stupid person would think that if they didn't know the difference

between criticizing the Lambda and calling it crap after it won the US nationals,

versus designing something different or a variant that compliments FFG's work.

How dumb is that though really, defending someone who says the Lambda sucks,

after it was part of a list that just won the US nationals.

I'm not defending anyone. The Lambda is an enormously cost-effective ship with a terrible dial; if you can deal with the dial, there's a huge upside waiting for you. Lots of people have demonstrated that.

What I was trying to point out, with tongue in cheek, is that anyone with a high opinion of his or her own homebrew is more likely to be a victim of the Dunning-Kruger effect than a talented designer. That's something I carry around from bad experiences with tabletop RPGs, but I haven't seen anything in X-wing that disproves it: for every idea that makes me go "hmm, that's interesting", there are nine or ten that are obviously, eye-rollingly bad but ardently defended by their originators.

(And honestly I'm not sure it's that different for the pros, either, except that (a) their hit rate is probably better than 9-10% and (b) they have other experienced, professional colleagues who can reliably help identify and discard the misses, and then refine and develop the hits.)

I'm told that a reliable difference between genius and it's opposite is not the rate of good idea, but the number of ideas generally. Even if the hit rate is the same ~10%, a smarter person will simply toss more stuff up against the wall.

Something I've come to appreciate about these sorts of design spitball sessions is seeing why a given idea is good or bad. Frankly, understanding the core idea behind the someone's proposal is more valuable to me than saying whether or not the specific implementation of that idea is perfect or not.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that even the eyerollingly bad stuff is still _interesting_ to me. It still highlights real issues, and at the very least can tell us what will never ever happen.

I still get a laugh whenever people advocate for even MORE turret primary ships in the game, in more factions.

I think people are advocating a little more variety instead of turrets. Sure there are people who actual despise the turret as they the style of staying out of firing arcs while focusing down other ships and with turrets you can't really do that. Wave 5 did bring turrets but they were not copies of the Fat Faclon. Yes they were big ships and yes they had turret primary weapons but they each acted differently. The outrider hit hard but had a blind spot if it used HLC it could lower the damage but then you might as well go for Han which is good at mitigating damage. The Decimator is a huge tank and very resilient but has zero to almost none in terms of mitigating incoming damage other than destroy the other ships first.

The OP is suggesting for more 2 firepower turret ships but then again you have to remind the OP there is already 2 firepower turreted ships in the game and they are not used because they are rather weak in the meta. You have the ORS which is for all purposes might as well be a different ship when compared to Han/Lando/Chewie and you have the YT-2400 without the outrider title which no one runs ever because you can outrider and mangler for a general firepower boost without any drawbacks.

As for scum YT-1300 these would likely be the 4 pilots. You would have an ORS counterpart, (lets call it Hutt courier) which would cost the around the same and have exactly the same stat line with maybe a illicit slot. You would have 2 named pilots with the 2 ORS stat line that 2 Firepower 1 Agility 6 Hull and 4 Shields stat line. The PSkill 4-5 would be around 29 points while the PSkill 6-7 would be around 31 points, and then you would have Lando Carilisian (S&V) at pilot skill of 8 which would have the Falcon stat line of 3 firepower 1 Agility 8 Hull and 5 shields that would be 44 points.

However as you have mention why would another turret be needed? Just because S&V doesn't have their primary turret ship yet? In the previous paragraphs those pilot abilities would have to be very good for the amount of points asking because the stat line is awful (I already talked about stat line to point cost of 2 firepower big ships in a prior post on this thread). So in reality most people would fly Lando because that is the ship with the stat line that S&V has and the only reason to fly Lando would be to fly a S&V list. Otherwise players would just fly Fat Han for the Rebels because it does a better job than a tricked up Super Scum PS8 Lando.

And I think I also touched on the current problem with the S&V faction right now. That problem is, "What can Scam and Villainy do (better) that the other two factions can't?" The answer to that question is not much,they can take two big ships that hit hard get an extra attack with the more maneuverable Aggressors replacing the Buzzsaw shuttle list. Other than that anything else for competitive builds the Imperials and the Rebels can make a better list within the same 100 point limit. So to give the 3rd faction a YT-1300 just because they don't have a turret primary weapon yet would not be that useful because a rebel list is already better.

I wouldn't listen to fools who think they are better designers than FFG staff.

Um... this seems like a bit of an own-goal on your part.

I can see how a stupid person would think that if they didn't know the difference

between criticizing the Lambda and calling it crap after it won the US nationals,

versus designing something different or a variant that compliments FFG's work.

How dumb is that though really, defending someone who says the Lambda sucks,

after it was part of a list that just won the US nationals.

I'm not defending anyone. The Lambda is an enormously cost-effective ship with a terrible dial; if you can deal with the dial, there's a huge upside waiting for you. Lots of people have demonstrated that.

What I was trying to point out, with tongue in cheek, is that anyone with a high opinion of his or her own homebrew is more likely to be a victim of the Dunning-Kruger effect than a talented designer. That's something I carry around from bad experiences with tabletop RPGs, but I haven't seen anything in X-wing that disproves it: for every idea that makes me go "hmm, that's interesting", there are nine or ten that are obviously, eye-rollingly bad but ardently defended by their originators.

(And honestly I'm not sure it's that different for the pros, either, except that (a) their hit rate is probably better than 9-10% and (b) they have other experienced, professional colleagues who can reliably help identify and discard the misses, and then refine and develop the hits.)

I'm told that a reliable difference between genius and it's opposite is not the rate of good idea, but the number of ideas generally. Even if the hit rate is the same ~10%, a smarter person will simply toss more stuff up against the wall.

Something I've come to appreciate about these sorts of design spitball sessions is seeing why a given idea is good or bad. Frankly, understanding the core idea behind the someone's proposal is more valuable to me than saying whether or not the specific implementation of that idea is perfect or not.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that even the eyerollingly bad stuff is still _interesting_ to me. It still highlights real issues, and at the very least can tell us what will never ever happen.

I find that kind of thing is crystallized nicely by one of David Dunning's own quotes:

"the skills you need to produce a right answer are exactly the skills you need to recognize what a right answer is."

It's the difference between a speculative post that says:

"I think we should have X ship or Y upgrade because it was super-super-awesome in x/y/z comic/book/computer game"

and a speculative post that says:

"X faction is at a tactical disadvantage because of Y, Z would fill that gap because....., therefore Z would be a good idea."

One of those approaches is more likely to yield useful results more of the time.

I think people are advocating a little more variety instead of turrets. Sure there are people who actual despise the turret as they the style of staying out of firing arcs while focusing down other ships and with turrets you can't really do that. Wave 5 did bring turrets but they were not copies of the Fat Faclon. Yes they were big ships and yes they had turret primary weapons but they each acted differently. The outrider hit hard but had a blind spot if it used HLC it could lower the damage but then you might as well go for Han which is good at mitigating damage. The Decimator is a huge tank and very resilient but has zero to almost none in terms of mitigating incoming damage other than destroy the other ships first.

The OP is suggesting for more 2 firepower turret ships but then again you have to remind the OP there is already 2 firepower turreted ships in the game and they are not used because they are rather weak in the meta. You have the ORS which is for all purposes might as well be a different ship when compared to Han/Lando/Chewie and you have the YT-2400 without the outrider title which no one runs ever because you can outrider and mangler for a general firepower boost without any drawbacks.

As for scum YT-1300 these would likely be the 4 pilots. You would have an ORS counterpart, (lets call it Hutt courier) which would cost the around the same and have exactly the same stat line with maybe a illicit slot. You would have 2 named pilots with the 2 ORS stat line that 2 Firepower 1 Agility 6 Hull and 4 Shields stat line. The PSkill 4-5 would be around 29 points while the PSkill 6-7 would be around 31 points, and then you would have Lando Carilisian (S&V) at pilot skill of 8 which would have the Falcon stat line of 3 firepower 1 Agility 8 Hull and 5 shields that would be 44 points.

However as you have mention why would another turret be needed? Just because S&V doesn't have their primary turret ship yet? In the previous paragraphs those pilot abilities would have to be very good for the amount of points asking because the stat line is awful (I already talked about stat line to point cost of 2 firepower big ships in a prior post on this thread). So in reality most people would fly Lando because that is the ship with the stat line that S&V has and the only reason to fly Lando would be to fly a S&V list. Otherwise players would just fly Fat Han for the Rebels because it does a better job than a tricked up Super Scum PS8 Lando.

And I think I also touched on the current problem with the S&V faction right now. That problem is, "What can Scam and Villainy do (better) that the other two factions can't?" The answer to that question is not much,they can take two big ships that hit hard get an extra attack with the more maneuverable Aggressors replacing the Buzzsaw shuttle list. Other than that anything else for competitive builds the Imperials and the Rebels can make a better list within the same 100 point limit. So to give the 3rd faction a YT-1300 just because they don't have a turret primary weapon yet would not be that useful because a rebel list is already better.

I see your points and find them worth addressing with this:

#1) YT-1300s have many initial configurations.

#2) Everyone and their grandmothers modify their YT-1300s

#3) The YT-1300 frame can handle six weapons, including the primary.

Hence, a two attack ORS stat ship could balance it's effectiveness compared to Rebel Han by attacking multiple times the same way huge ships with multiple turrets do. The difference would be that they could need to have missed and the target not spent a focus token to continue on down the line of secondary weapons. This incorporates the focus and evade token stripping pilots abilities which suits Scum & Villainy.

• Kal Brigger

Pilot Skill: 6

Attack: 2

Defense: 1

Hull: 6

Shields: 4

Actions: Focus, Target Lock

Upgrades:Illicit, Turret, Turret, Cannon, Crew.

Pilot Ability:

If your attack misses and your target did not spend tokens to defend,

then you may attack again with a secondary weapon.

Slightly overpowered, but it's as is to underscore that you don't have to assume only a Lando S&V pilot would be used nor a Rebel YT-1300 necessarily preferred. This also incorporates an answer to your question "what can S&V ships do better?" Stripping and stealing tokens suits their faction.

Incidentally, I highly recommend this book for inspiration:

Galaxy Guide 6: Tramp Freighters

Weapon Summary

Weapon

Taim & Bak Kd-3 Light Blaster Cannon

Kuat Vonak Light Laser Cannon

Arakyd Tomral Heavy Laser Cannon

lncom W-34t Turbolaser ♦

Comar f-2 Light Ion Cannon ♦♦

Comar f-4 Medium Ion Cannon ♦♦

Comar f-9 Heavy Ion Cannon ♦♦

Arakyd Hi-fex Proton Torpedo Launcher

(includes 12-torpedo rack)

Arakyd Morne-3 Concussion Missile Launcher

(includes 10-missile rack)

♦ This weapon is illegal.

♦♦ This weapon disables an enemy ship’s electronics as explained on page 1 10 of

Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game, Second Edition.

An interesting list that might have some value for title ideas, S&V and Rebel.

• Chalcedony

was a YT-1300 light freighter modified for passenger transport.

It was outbound from Pallaxides when it was forced to crash land on Celanon.

• Corellia Star

was a YT-1300 light freighter.

The Corellia Star bears an unmistakable resemblance to the Millennium Falcon.

• Knight Errant

was a YT-1300 light freighter that was owned by and saw service with the Rebel Alliance Fleet.

The vessel was utilized by an Alliance rescue team that had been sent on a mission to rescue

the crew of and save the information from the CR90 corvette Stellar Damsel.

• Millennium Falcon

was a YT-1300 light freighter with a storied history stretching back to the decades before the Clone Wars and the rise of the Galactic Empire. she underwent several name and owners changes. Notable owners include: Kal Brigger, Dova Brigger, Tobb Jadak, Bammy Decree, Shug Ninx, Quip Fargil, Parlay Thorp, Lando Calrissian, Han Solo, Chewbacca, Klaus Vandangante, Jowdrrl.

• Millennium Falsehood

was a modified YT-1300 light freighter. General Han Solo authorized Wraith Squadron to create a fake Millennium Falcon to lure the Warlord into a trap

• Night Havok

was a modified YT-1300 light freighter. The Night Havok was prone to frequent mechanical trouble. At one time it was used by the Saffchs to transport black market medical supplies for the New Republic.

• Sabra

was one of two YT-1300 transports owned and operated by the Azzameen family, Her most famous feat was participating in the theft of the shuttle Tydirium.

• Selu

was the second of two YT-1300 transports owned and operated by the Azzameen family, The Selu was renamed the "Venix" to sneak into Viraxo 54 and dump a cargo of spice, disguised as supplies. She got the spice in, but was disabled, and had to be destroyed by the Sabra in order to cover up the Azzameen family's activities

• Star Lady

was a modified YT-1300 light freighter and the ship of the con-artist duo Fenig Nabon and Ghitsa Dogder. It was in the dry docks of Nal Hutta when Fen and Ghits teamed with Shada D'ukal to deliver Shak Clan females to Durga the Hutt.

• Steel Fist

The Steel Fist was a heavily-modified (moved cockpit) Corellian Engineering Corporation YT-1300 light freighter owned and operated by the bounty hunter Kolig during the early years of the New Republic.

• The Maker

was a YT-1300 light freighter that was stolen from Sythluss Leethe by T'Charek Haathi and her crew on Zelos II. It was used by Haathi on missions for the Rebel Alliance.

• Tower

was a modified Corellian Engineering Corporation YT-1300 light freighter owned by the Bimm Gun-Runner Rycar Ryjerd. The crew consisted of Rycar and three other Bimms.

Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided

• Geddawai

was a YT-1300 light freighter owned by the Rebel Alliance. The Geddawai was used as an escape vehicle by the rogue Imperial Admiral Harkov when Imperial authorities caught up with him.

• Blackjack

was a YT-1300 light freighter owned by Jax Keyn and his copilot Trillia. It was used to help Mon Mothma escape from the clutches of Senator Pel Talon.

• Sureshot

was a YT-1300 light freighter owned by the Arcona Jedi Izal Waz and was also a part of the Wild Knights squadron. In 26 ABY it was destroyed over Coruscant by assassins working for Senator Viqi Shesh who thought the ship to be the Millennium Falcon.

• Limping Lady

was a modified YT-1300 light freighter which had been owned several times by Sithless Leethe. Some time during its life the vessel was fitted with a mass-driver cannon.

I think people are advocating a little more variety instead of turrets. Sure there are people who actual despise the turret as they the style of staying out of firing arcs while focusing down other ships and with turrets you can't really do that. Wave 5 did bring turrets but they were not copies of the Fat Faclon. Yes they were big ships and yes they had turret primary weapons but they each acted differently. The outrider hit hard but had a blind spot if it used HLC it could lower the damage but then you might as well go for Han which is good at mitigating damage. The Decimator is a huge tank and very resilient but has zero to almost none in terms of mitigating incoming damage other than destroy the other ships first.

The OP is suggesting for more 2 firepower turret ships but then again you have to remind the OP there is already 2 firepower turreted ships in the game and they are not used because they are rather weak in the meta. You have the ORS which is for all purposes might as well be a different ship when compared to Han/Lando/Chewie and you have the YT-2400 without the outrider title which no one runs ever because you can outrider and mangler for a general firepower boost without any drawbacks.

As for scum YT-1300 these would likely be the 4 pilots. You would have an ORS counterpart, (lets call it Hutt courier) which would cost the around the same and have exactly the same stat line with maybe a illicit slot. You would have 2 named pilots with the 2 ORS stat line that 2 Firepower 1 Agility 6 Hull and 4 Shields stat line. The PSkill 4-5 would be around 29 points while the PSkill 6-7 would be around 31 points, and then you would have Lando Carilisian (S&V) at pilot skill of 8 which would have the Falcon stat line of 3 firepower 1 Agility 8 Hull and 5 shields that would be 44 points.

However as you have mention why would another turret be needed? Just because S&V doesn't have their primary turret ship yet? In the previous paragraphs those pilot abilities would have to be very good for the amount of points asking because the stat line is awful (I already talked about stat line to point cost of 2 firepower big ships in a prior post on this thread). So in reality most people would fly Lando because that is the ship with the stat line that S&V has and the only reason to fly Lando would be to fly a S&V list. Otherwise players would just fly Fat Han for the Rebels because it does a better job than a tricked up Super Scum PS8 Lando.

And I think I also touched on the current problem with the S&V faction right now. That problem is, "What can Scam and Villainy do (better) that the other two factions can't?" The answer to that question is not much,they can take two big ships that hit hard get an extra attack with the more maneuverable Aggressors replacing the Buzzsaw shuttle list. Other than that anything else for competitive builds the Imperials and the Rebels can make a better list within the same 100 point limit. So to give the 3rd faction a YT-1300 just because they don't have a turret primary weapon yet would not be that useful because a rebel list is already better.

I see your points and find them worth addressing with this:

#1) YT-1300s have many initial configurations.

#2) Everyone and their grandmothers modify their YT-1300s

#3) The YT-1300 frame can handle six weapons, including the primary.

Hence, a two attack ORS stat ship could balance it's effectiveness compared to Rebel Han by attacking multiple times the same way huge ships with multiple turrets do. The difference would be that they could need to have missed and the target not spent a focus token to continue on down the line of secondary weapons. This incorporates the focus and evade token stripping pilots abilities which suits Scum & Villainy.

• Kal Brigger

Pilot Skill: 6

Attack: 2

Defense: 1

Hull: 6

Shields: 4

Actions: Focus, Target Lock

Upgrades:Illicit, Turret, Turret, Cannon, Crew.

Pilot Ability:

If your attack misses and your target did not spend tokens to defend,

then you may attack again with a secondary weapon.

Slightly overpowered, but it's as is to underscore that you don't have to assume only a Lando S&V pilot would be used nor a Rebel YT-1300 necessarily preferred. This also incorporates an answer to your question "what can S&V ships do better?" Stripping and stealing tokens suits their faction.

Incidentally, I highly recommend this book for inspiration:

Galaxy Guide 6: Tramp Freighters

Weapon Summary

Weapon

Taim & Bak Kd-3 Light Blaster Cannon

Kuat Vonak Light Laser Cannon

Arakyd Tomral Heavy Laser Cannon

lncom W-34t Turbolaser ♦

Comar f-2 Light Ion Cannon ♦♦

Comar f-4 Medium Ion Cannon ♦♦

Comar f-9 Heavy Ion Cannon ♦♦

Arakyd Hi-fex Proton Torpedo Launcher

(includes 12-torpedo rack)

Arakyd Morne-3 Concussion Missile Launcher

(includes 10-missile rack)

♦ This weapon is illegal.

♦♦ This weapon disables an enemy ship’s electronics as explained on page 1 10 of

Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game, Second Edition.

And what would that bring to the game that say, a turreted Jumpmaster 5000 (i.e Punishing One) piloted by the infamous Bounty Hunter Dengar, could not?

And what would that bring to the game that say, a turreted Jumpmaster 5000 (i.e Punishing One) piloted by the infamous Bounty Hunter Dengar, could not?

A lot, but that's a discussion for another thread isn't it?

the title of this thread is Scum YT-1300's, right?

I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't actually read the post you quoted.

I personally wouldn't mind if they added a title card that allowed a turbolaser upgrade on YT-1300.

Or just a new lncom W-34t Turbolaser upgrade that required both a turret slot and a modification slot.

And what would that bring to the game that say, a turreted Jumpmaster 5000 (i.e Punishing One) piloted by the infamous Bounty Hunter Dengar, could not?

A lot, but that's a discussion for another thread isn't it?

the title of this thread is Scum YT-1300's, right?

I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't actually read the post you quoted.

I personally wouldn't mind if they added a title card that allowed a turbolaser upgrade on YT-1300.

Or just a new lncom W-34t Turbolaser upgrade that required both a turret slot and a modification slot.

Marinealver asked:

However as you have mention why would another turret be needed? Just because S&V doesn't have their primary turret ship yet?

You replied with a page from a very old West End Games rulebook. But no one was arguing that the YT-1300 isn't a very popular ship, in-universe, with a large set of possible modifications and alterations. What people (including me) are wondering is what the YT-1300 would do for Scum that's unique, that fills some gap or need in the game or in the faction.

So Funkleton asked again what the YT-1300 would do that other ships wouldn't, and your reply suggests that you don't think it's an important question. And that's... fine, I guess, but it suggests that if anyone is having trouble following the discussion, it's you. "What would this add to the game?" is always a relevant question for a new game element, because there's not much point in walking through design space that's already been trampled by something else.

There are obviously thematic reasons there could be YT-1300s associated with the Scum faction, but why they should be represented in Scum is definitely open to question.

I'll take theme over anything else (especially when it means we get more cards for existing ships that should be multi-faction), but there really are other priorities for Scum.

What I've seen so far of this thread is there is most definitely a role that the scum YT-1300 could play making it an interesting choice for those outlaws. What has also been shown is that while the YT-1300 can provide new and interesting options there is potential overlap with other ships that could be introduced to the game.

It seems with the almost infinite variations of the YT-1300 it could fill almost any large based turret function. However in terms of the game I highly doubt that FFG would implement a differently configured YT-1300 to fill other roles when they can just as easily bring in a new ship that would not dilute faction flavor.

What route would you choose? New ship that brings variety to the table or a new take on an existing ship that has proven itself a fan favorite.

Given what I've seen I would definitely like to see scum yt-1300s as they can unquestionably add to the game. BBBUUTTT I think I would prefer some more uniqueness to scum before we dilute their Identity too far.

I'll take theme over anything else (especially when it means we get more cards for existing ships that should be multi-faction), but there really are other priorities for Scum.

I care a lot about the game's theme, and so does FFG. The problem is that there are enough EU ships to keep them coming out with new Scum ships for years. That means that while the YT-1300 would be a very thematic inclusion for Scum, it's far from alone, so other considerations apply.

And those considerations are about licensing (which I brought up earlier) and design space. Once you start thinking about those things, it becomes clear--or at least it does for me--that it's going to be a long time before we see Scum Falcons, if we ever do.

I'll take theme over anything else (especially when it means we get more cards for existing ships that should be multi-faction), but there really are other priorities for Scum.

I care a lot about the game's theme, and so does FFG. The problem is that there are enough EU ships to keep them coming out with new Scum ships for years. That means that while the YT-1300 would be a very thematic inclusion for Scum, it's far from alone, so other considerations apply.

And those considerations are about licensing (which I brought up earlier) and design space. Once you start thinking about those things, it becomes clear--or at least it does for me--that it's going to be a long time before we see Scum Falcons, if we ever do.

I have to agree, outside of The Otana, I do not think FFG is going to even make a YT for S&V. It is better left to fans and serious (crazy?) Wingers to make their own cool models and play them for fun at home and such.

So I've seen a lot of talk on these boards about giving scum access to the YT-1300s specifically for some of the azameen family. This has got me thinking more about the Millennium Falcon expansion and there is something very unique about this expansion, the generic YT-1300 has a different stat line than the named pilots.

I along with many others presume this to be that all the named pilots are flying the highly modified Millennium Falcon. would scum pilots also be flying the millennium Falcon? I think not.

So would future YT-1300 really deserve the Falcon's stat line or does it deserve the generic stat line?

So now that the naysayers have dropped their votes,

how many variants can we come up with that are scummy?

You mentioned the Azzameen family's YT-1300s Selu & Sabra .

Countermeasures

• Chaff
• Flares

Armament

• 1 laser cannon
• 1 laser cannon turret
• 2 warhead launchers

Complement

• Tractor beam
• Sensor jammer

I may make a card for the heck of it, anyone who wants

to see one have stats, action, or upgrade suggestions?