That's a good point that marinealver makes about the specific costing of the title, but I like the idea of a YT-1300 that gives a lot more customizability. A zero point title that gives an illicit slot and a cannon slot maybe? I'd say system, but that's basically the virago title. Also: a turret buzzsaw would be scary.

I think based on the ORS mere 2 attack dice the primary need would be a way to increase it's Damage output. One ability I thought of would be to allow the ship to make 2 primary weapon attacks per turn but you may not fire at the same target twice, to represent non convergent firing arcs (top and bottom).

Would this provide the ORS enough of an attack boost to make it worthwhile, maybe if it was still cheap enough (ORS is 27 pts so something similar)

I'm down for an S&V ORS clone, maybe one less hull or shield, for 25 points.

That way, the people who bought 4 Falcons will be able to run space-pancake swarm!

If we were going to have Scum YT1300s and YT2400s we'd already have them, they'd have been included in Most Wanted.

It might be that FFG wanted to save it up for the YT2000 but somehow I doubt it. It's way too derivative of the Rebel ships to make a good fit with Scum and there's far more recognisable bounty hunter characters who made appearances in the OT who are more likely to make an appearance first.

I'm not saying it will never happen but I wouldn't get your hopes set on a Scum YT much before 2017.

Yes i also think the YT2000 would be the logical choice for scum. I don't know how it would be different from the Falcon, but in another faction this would not matter that much.

Would certainly be nice to have a Scum ship with 2 or more crew slots at least, and well if it fits in its style or not is a whole different questionbut i don't find it that relevant honestly.

Yes i also think the YT2000 would be the logical choice for scum. I don't know how it would be different from the Falcon, but in another faction this would not matter that much.

Would certainly be nice to have a Scum ship with 2 or more crew slots at least, and well if it fits in its style or not is a whole different questionbut i don't find it that relevant honestly.

I'd envisage it as a cross between the Falcon and the Outrider. 2 attack turret, a cannon slot (but no title that can turn it into a turret), 1 evade, 2 crew slots. MAYBE a systems upgrade slot. Or maybe reverse that, and give it a 3 attack primary arc weapon and the turret upgrade instead of the cannon slot (doesn't really make thematic sense as the Otana's ion cannons were fixed forward, but would make it different at least).

Have suggested elsewhere coming up with a "defensive fire" mode upgrade ( a mechanic taken directly from the X-Wing Alliance game) - you can make a free primary weapon attack against the first ship which fires at you per turn, but are limited to using secondary weapons for your own attack.

I think based on the ORS mere 2 attack dice the primary need would be a way to increase it's Damage output. One ability I thought of would be to allow the ship to make 2 primary weapon attacks per turn but you may not fire at the same target twice, to represent non convergent firing arcs (top and bottom).

Oh i really like that, thematically. May not pan out for tournament play, but as someone who likes to put Star Wars first, and the rules second, that would look cool as heck.

That's a good point that marinealver makes about the specific costing of the title, but I like the idea of a YT-1300 that gives a lot more customizability. A zero point title that gives an illicit slot and a cannon slot maybe? I'd say system, but that's basically the virago title. Also: a turret buzzsaw would be scary.

a buzzsaw turret would be good on ships that only have a primary firing arc weapon. The again I don't think IG-88 needs any more out of arc assistance than the hot shot blaster.

actually, the more I think about it, the more I think the generic yt-1300 should be identical to ors.

but each named one should be different in some fashion then the others,

1 could have more powerful guns but 1 less sheild

1 could have an armored hull +2, but loses 360 turret

1 could have a sensor upgrade slot, or a droid slot

stuff that makes them unique, because there is no such thing as a stock freighter in the underworld

hell,

this could even be a cool time to introduce a tractor beam weapon, scum need a way to board your ship to steal it

I would like to see and actual "Gunner" card for these big ships.

lets take my idea of multiple different yt-1300, one could have a turret slot like the HWK or Y-wing.

with the scum gunner, you can fire this turret along with the primary at a different target if you wish, but the target gets +1 agility against the attack, since the pilot is concentrating on his target and the gunner must compensate to the ship moving in random directions to make his shot.

actually, the more I think about it, the more I think the generic yt-1300 should be identical to ors.

but each named one should be different in some fashion then the others,

1 could have more powerful guns but 1 less sheild

1 could have an armored hull +2, but loses 360 turret

1 could have a sensor upgrade slot, or a droid slot

stuff that makes them unique, because there is no such thing as a stock freighter in the underworld

Agree in principle - although I'm not sure if it would be better to keep the generic Outer Rim Smuggler stat line on the cards and use title cards to change abilities. i.e. Selu (you may replace a crew slot with a salvaged astromech slot), Sabra (gain the systems upgrade slot) etc.

My main gripe with the Rebel named pilots is that they all use a statline clearly intended to represent the Millennium Falcon , but you can field Han and Chewie, Lando and Chewie etc. I would have preferred if the increase in attack, shield & hull had been part of the Millennium Falcon title card, so only one could be fielded at any one time.

As to the thread topic, the operative point is whether Lucasfilm Licensing would ever sign off on a version of the Millennium Falcon that wasn't associated with the Rebellion. My guess is they wouldn't, and won't.

Meh... I know what I am talking about just fine thanks, and and I still do not like cows much.

I'm surprised but pleased to find that you've written a sentence in fairly grammatical English! But shuttles are actually pretty good; skip the usual builds and go with something like Advanced Sensors + Engine Upgrade.

I wouldn't listen to fools who think they are better designers than FFG staff.

Um... this seems like a bit of an own-goal on your part.

...

Not exactly sure that this upgrade is worth the points. Lets take a look at a similar upgrade.

Now the one thing about upgrades that add to the upgrade bar they are going to make the ship more expensive. If you are spending points to spend more points that considerably raise the cost. So costing 1 point alone there better be a good upgrade or else that would be a waste of points. So for 2 points you are taking all upgrade and adding 2 points to that upgrade making this upgrade very expensive.

Now on for the upgrades that are added. That is going to depend on what ship you are adding those upgrades. For the illicit upgrades, only 2 upgrades could be useful and the term useful is rather subjective, I should say there is only 2 illicit upgrade that are not worse than your primary attack. The first inertial dampeners and the second one is dead mans switch and both of those are only able to be used once and only once. ID is discarded once you use it and dead man switch is when the ship gets destroyed (assuming it is not the last one).

Now as for turrets, The YT-1300 already has a turreted weapon and having a secondary weapon means that the atacker has to choose between a primary weapon or a secondary weapon but not both (BTL-A4 is the only exception). Turrets upgrades are only range 1-2 with autoblater turret only being 1. At range 1 the ORS will be rolling 3 attack dice without having to spend a focus to use blaster turret. Autoblaster turret is just like the cannon upgrade removing one attack die. Ion cannon turret reduces your damage to 1 hit.

So there you go for 2 points no one would take that upgrade even on an ORS. For 0 points it is still unlikely depending on what upgrade slots it can give but a turret would not be a good slot for certain.

I was just spit-balling outside the box. I don't have an attachment to costing at 2 points.

In fact I'm not attached to any part of it except the image of the Stellar Envoy.

This one again just to underscore the potential:

Well why not, but the Stellar Envoy technically is the Falcon. Which statline would you use for that ship then?

actually, the more I think about it, the more I think the generic yt-1300 should be identical to ors.

but each named one should be different in some fashion then the others,

1 could have more powerful guns but 1 less sheild

1 could have an armored hull +2, but loses 360 turret

1 could have a sensor upgrade slot, or a droid slot

stuff that makes them unique, because there is no such thing as a stock freighter in the underworld

Agree in principle - although I'm not sure if it would be better to keep the generic Outer Rim Smuggler stat line on the cards and use title cards to change abilities. i.e. Selu (you may replace a crew slot with a salvaged astromech slot), Sabra (gain the systems upgrade slot) etc.

My main gripe with the Rebel named pilots is that they all use a statline clearly intended to represent the Millennium Falcon , but you can field Han and Chewie, Lando and Chewie etc. I would have preferred if the increase in attack, shield & hull had been part of the Millennium Falcon title card, so only one could be fielded at any one time.

Also If the "normal" 1300 statline for the named pilots represents the Falcon, probably it is the Falcon since both Lando and Chewie flew it. That they can both be on the field together is weird, but after all Boba Fett surely heavily modified the Slave too and every Firespray has the same statline too!

As to the thread topic, the operative point is whether Lucasfilm Licensing would ever sign off on a version of the Millennium Falcon that wasn't associated with the Rebellion. My guess is they wouldn't, and won't.

Furthermore, would they allow the ship that belonged to one of the greatest heroes of the rebellion associated with a faction called Scum and Villainy?

Things like that might seem insignificant to you and me, but we didn't pay half a gazillion space bucks to own the IP (and hope to turn that into a gazillion space bucks as a result) - if we had we might be a little more precious about how that IP gets used by licensed third parties.

The YT2000 is a slightly more interesting question - there's no doubt about it being a Scum ship - but it's incredibly derivative of the Falcon so probably won't pass muster for that reason.

But then again, you don't get much more derivative than Dash Rendar - he's Han in everything but name and the species of his sidekick - so who knows?

I mean, it is fairly obvious that the Falcon isn't going to be Scum. I mean, they created a whole new card type just so Artoo couldn't be in Scum...

As to the thread topic, the operative point is whether Lucasfilm Licensing would ever sign off on a version of the Millennium Falcon that wasn't associated with the Rebellion. My guess is they wouldn't, and won't.

Furthermore, would they allow the ship that belonged to one of the greatest heroes of the rebellion associated with a faction called Scum and Villainy?

Things like that might seem insignificant to you and me, but we didn't pay half a gazillion space bucks to own the IP (and hope to turn that into a gazillion space bucks as a result) - if we had we might be a little more precious about how that IP gets used by licensed third parties.

Exactly.

The YT2000 is a slightly more interesting question - there's no doubt about it being a Scum ship - but it's incredibly derivative of the Falcon so probably won't pass muster for that reason.

But then again, you don't get much more derivative than Dash Rendar - he's Han in everything but name and the species of his sidekick - so who knows?

I can definitely see the possibility of a YT-2000 coming out for Scum someday, possibly as their first ship with a turret primary weapon. That's a much more interesting area of speculation for me, honestly.

The YT2000 is a slightly more interesting question - there's no doubt about it being a Scum ship - but it's incredibly derivative of the Falcon so probably won't pass muster for that reason.

But then again, you don't get much more derivative than Dash Rendar - he's Han in everything but name and the species of his sidekick - so who knows?

I can definitely see the possibility of a YT-2000 coming out for Scum someday, possibly as their first ship with a turret primary weapon. That's a much more interesting area of speculation for me, honestly.

It's a distinct possibility - but then again given FFG's M.O so far I get the impression that they will give distinctive new ships priority over derivative new ships.

If the new Armada ships are any indication (and they might not be) The Rhombus of Death ( http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Havoc_%28starfighter%29 ) and the Crescent of Doom ( http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Punishing_One ) are front runners by some margin.

As to the thread topic, the operative point is whether Lucasfilm Licensing would ever sign off on a version of the Millennium Falcon that wasn't associated with the Rebellion. My guess is they wouldn't, and won't.

Furthermore, would they allow the ship that belonged to one of the greatest heroes of the rebellion associated with a faction called Scum and Villainy?

Things like that might seem insignificant to you and me, but we didn't pay half a gazillion space bucks to own the IP (and hope to turn that into a gazillion space bucks as a result) - if we had we might be a little more precious about how that IP gets used by licensed third parties.

The YT2000 is a slightly more interesting question - there's no doubt about it being a Scum ship - but it's incredibly derivative of the Falcon so probably won't pass muster for that reason.

But then again, you don't get much more derivative than Dash Rendar - he's Han in everything but name and the species of his sidekick - so who knows?

I'll repeat something I said earlier - FFG has already established a faction that includes Han, Lando and the shadier side of the Rebellion - it's called Smugglers and Spies (from the LCG). No reason they couldn't add a 4th faction down the road and do everything being discussed in this thread.

as cool as the creativity this thread is fostering, I'm still praying that FFG has learned from their mistakes and is not planning to blight S&V and X-wing in general with yet another large based turret

as cool as the creativity this thread is fostering, I'm still praying that FFG has learned from their mistakes and is not planning to blight S&V and X-wing in general with yet another large based turret

Large-based ships with turrets aren't a bad thing per se, particularly now that we have the autothruster counter - and if the much-speculated about forthcoming ordnance buff finally makes missiles and torps a worthwhile upgrade.

But a scum Falcon clone would be a rather dull way to go and I'd credit the FFG designers with a little more creativity than that.

I'll repeat something I said earlier - FFG has already established a faction that includes Han, Lando and the shadier side of the Rebellion - it's called Smugglers and Spies (from the LCG). No reason they couldn't add a 4th faction down the road and do everything being discussed in this thread.

Because what ships would it have? The Rebels have stolen all their pilots and ships. It exists in the LCG because Scum and Villainy needed a lightside mirror. LCG also has Sith and Jedi factions, and nobody expects to see them.

Smugglers and Spies is not a faction in the sense of X-wing, it's one of the three classes under the Light Side faction.

In the LCG, Scum and Villainy are the dark side aligned criminal element, and Smugglers and Spies are the light.

In Imperial Assault Campaign, Scum and Villiany are generally a criminal element with loose ties to the Empire. In Imperial Assault Skirmish either side can recruit them as far as I know. The lightsider Scum are part of the Rebels.

In Armada, Scum and Villainy are rolled into the Empire, and "Rogues" rolled into the Rebels.

In X-wing, Scum and Villainy is opposed to both Rebel and Imperial interests fighting both (FFG went to great lengths to establish this). Therefore, a fourth faction is then logically fighting and being fought by all three.

Smugglers and Spies is part of the Rebel faction in all but the LCG, where it splits off for parity only. It's not realistic as a fourth faction, and the "the LCG does it so X-wing will" logic also gives us a Sith and Jedi X-wing faction.

I wouldn't listen to fools who think they are better designers than FFG staff.

Um... this seems like a bit of an own-goal on your part.

Well why not, but the Stellar Envoy technically is the Falcon. Which statline would you use for that ship then?

Well after looking at the history.

The ship remained in stock state for several years owned by

• Corell Industries Limited shipping as

"Corell's Pride,"

"Fickle Flyer, "

"Meetyl's Misery"

(every pilot retrofitted and tinkered with the vessel in a series of makeshift repairs and retoolings—one pilot was forced to install a poorly-built pulse generator, and a later navigator nearly destroyed the ship's Fabritech transceiver relay with a hydrospanner when it refused to work.)

Various name changes.

Renamed "Jackpot"

• Bought by Kal and Dova Brigger

Renamed "Hardwired"

Renamed "Wayward Son"

• Aquired by The Republic Group

Renamed "Stellar Envoy"

• Flown mainly by Tobb Jadak and Reeze Duurmun

(upgraded the Envoy's communications systems and hyperdrive.)

After collision with a bulk freighter above Nar Shaddaa,

• Purchased as scrap by Bammy Decree & Rej Taunt

(the Envoy was reconstructed from core to hull, and various systems were replaced with updated versions.The Imperial Navy's Chief Naval Engineer Lira Wessex was also involved in the retrofitting/repair of the Envoy.)

Renamed "Second Chance"

• Stolen by Zenn Bien, Quip Fargil and Luufkin.

Renamed "Gone to Pieces"

Renamed "Millennium Falcon"

• Donated to Doctor Parlay Thorp.

• Sold to Molpol's Traveling Circus

• Lost in a wager to Cix Trouvee & Vuffi Raa

• Lost in a wager to Lando Calrissian.

• Lost in a wager to Han Solo.

The odd thing is it turns out it was two very different ships by the same name.

As I said I'm mainly interested in the very distinct paint job of the Stellar Envoy

but according to it's history it could have two titles of that name,

before and after the collision with a bulk freighter above Nar Shaddaa,

The most refitting was done after the collision, so I think the larger hull stats would follow that title.

I wouldn't listen to fools who think they are better designers than FFG staff.

Um... this seems like a bit of an own-goal on your part.

between criticizing the Lambda and calling it crap after it won the US nationals,

versus designing something different or a variant that compliments FFG's work.

How dumb is that though really, defending someone who says the Lambda sucks,

after it was part of a list that just won the US nationals.