Tetran Cowall's ability reads "When you reveal a K-turn maneuver, you may treat the speed of that maneuver as '1', '3', or '5'."

Stay on Target reads "When you reveal a maneuver, you may rotate your dial to another maneuver with the same speed. Treat that maneuver as a red maneuver."

My question is this: if you reveal a K-turn maneuver, can you first choose to treat it as a different speed, and then use Stay on Target to choose another maneuver of the same speed, thus allowing you to switch from a K-turn to any 1-, 3-, or 5- speed maneuver?

Yes, I think you can and this is a great idea. You would first call the speed and then call the bearing per the dial. I love it!

Having thought about this some more, since both the pilot ability (treat any k-turn as a 5, 3 or 1) and the elite pilot talent (Stay on Target) activate upon revealing the dial, you get to pick which you trigger first. So in addition to changing a k-turn to a 5, 3 or 1 k (via pilot ability), and then changing that to the relevant 5, 3 or 1 bearing on the dial (via the EPT), you could also partially do the reverse.

For example, you could change any 5 or 3 bearing to a 5 or 3 k-turn (via Stay on Target), and then change that k-turn to a 5, 3 or 1 k if you desired a different speed. But you could not change a 1-turn to a 1-k (and then switch to a 3 or 5 k) because there is no 1-k on an interceptor dial and the pilot ability only lets you "treat" a 5 or 3 k as a 1-k; it does not actually create a 1-k option on your interceptor dial. So you only get some of the options of the stacked pilot ability and talent by triggering Stay on Target before Tetran's ability.

Thus, if not stressed, picking a 5 or 3-k on your dial leaves you the most flexibility. The subsequent move is going to be red anyway, and you can change it to a 5-straight, any of the 3 maneuvers, or a 1-turn or k. I'm going to have to try this out.

Having thought about this some more, since both the pilot ability (treat any k-turn as a 5, 3 or 1) and the elite pilot talent (Stay on Target) activate upon revealing the dial, you get to pick which you trigger first. So in addition to changing a k-turn to a 5, 3 or 1 k (via pilot ability), and then changing that to the relevant 5, 3 or 1 bearing on the dial (via the EPT), you could also partially do the reverse.

For example, you could change any 5 or 3 bearing to a 5 or 3 k-turn (via Stay on Target), and then change that k-turn to a 5, 3 or 1 k if you desired a different speed. But you could not change a 1-turn to a 1-k (and then switch to a 3 or 5 k) because there is no 1-k on an interceptor dial and the pilot ability only lets you "treat" a 5 or 3 k as a 1-k; it does not actually create a 1-k option on your interceptor dial. So you only get some of the options of the stacked pilot ability and talent by triggering Stay on Target before Tetran's ability.

Thus, if not stressed, picking a 5 or 3-k on your dial leaves you the most flexibility. The subsequent move is going to be red anyway, and you can change it to a 5-straight, any of the 3 maneuvers, or a 1-turn or k. I'm going to have to try this out.

I don't believe this is accurate. The scenario of reveling a K-turn and triggering both Tetran's ability and SoT works because you fulfilled both the requirements for Tetran's ability ("Revealing a K-turn") and SoTs requirement (Revealing a maneuver), and thus you get to choose the order to resolve them. If you revealed a straight maneuver you would fulfill the requirements of SoT, but since you did not reveal a K-turn Tetran's requirement was not fulfilled and does not trigger. So you only get to use SoT in that instance.

Edit: to elaborate, "when you reveal a dial" is not a phase, but a one-time instance. You can't trigger SoT, change your dial, then act like you just revealed that new maneuver.

Actually that is exactly what you can. Otherwise Fettigator would never have worked. Changing the dial counts as a new revealed maneuver. It is in the FAQ

And this is why it would be really nice if the FAQ explained the rules foundation for things, rather than just giving the final answer.

We actually don't know why Fettigator works the way it does. There are at least two possible ways you can explain why Fettigator works, and each has a different answer for Tetran.

Option 1: Both trigger from one reveal, but resolve based on what is visible on the dial when they resolve. In this case, Tetran's ability doesn't trigger unless your initial reveal is a K-turn.

Option 2: You resolve them based on what is on the dial when the ability triggers, but each rotation to a new maneuver counts as revealing a maneuver, so the abilities trigger again. In this case, the new reveal will trigger Tetran's ability when you rotate the dial to a K-turn.

So we really don't know. There's nothing in the rules to explain it either way, and the Fettigator ruling itself provides no insight to the why of it all.

<shrug> The only thing you can really draw from the Fettigator ruling is that FFG has historically been very permissive when it comes to combining maneuver change abilities, and it would be consistent to let this work with Tetran as well.

Buhallin, I share your thoughts on the Fettigator and it is what led me to the same conclusion with Tetran. It is going to give you great flexibility due to similar logic.

Cptnhalfbeard, I appreciate you laying out a counter theory, but Fettigator makes me lean toward that as a good precedent to model this after. Your discussion on "reveal" is a very good point. The need to reveal is why I don't think a 1-turn can turn into a 1-k, since there is no such maneuver to reveal on the dial, however a 1-k derived from a 3 or 5-k can become a 1-turn. Nonetheless, I agree with you and Buhallin that more detail and a final ruling are needed in a future FAQ.

Thanks guys!

Fettigator only works when you reveal a bank maneuver. It still holds true with what I stated above. Revealing a bank maneuver satisfies both "when you reveal a bank maneuver" and "when you reveal a maneuver" so both trigger and you get to choose the order. The thing about navigator is it only affects the speed of the maneuver, not the bearing. There is no ruling on whether SoT and fett would would work when revealing a non-bank maneuver.

I'm sending this over to FFG again, they never replied when I asked last time.

Edit: my reasoning for this is that "when you reveal a maneuver" is not a phase where you can re-trigger things. At the moment this event happens sometimes 1 or more things may trigger. If more than 1 thing triggers you get to choose the order, that's why Fettigator works.

I'll use "before revealing a dial" as an example, this is a one-time trigger, not a phase. This is why you can't use Advanced Sensors to cloak and then immediately decloak. You didn't have the cloak token when "before you reveal your dial" happened, so you don't get to trigger it. So likewise, if you didn't reveal a k-turn when "when you reveal a dial" happened, then you don't get to use tetran. It's the same thing.

I am of the opinion that it doesn't work, and that's based on very specific language that is different on Tetran's ability vs. Fett, Navigator, and SoT. Let's go step by step. Note: SoT -> Tetran works, just not Tetran -> SoT.

1) Select a 3K

2) Reveal a 3K

3a) Tetran's ability kicks in, at this point, you may TREAT the 3k as a 1k. Note, the dial still shows 3K.

3b) SoT ability kicks in, and you can rotate your dial (which is still showing 3K) to any maneuver of speed 3.

So, since Tetran doesn't have you actually rotate the dial, like Fett, Navigator, and SoT all have you do, it doesn't physically change the dial to allow SoT to modify the dial again. Now, as for why the language on Tetran is different than the other abilities, my guess would be because that you cannot rotate to a 1K or 5K since it's not on the dial. As such, in the spirit of being able to stack SoT with Tetran, FFG may FAQ it such that you can use the two. However, the wording as it currently stands is very clear, and Tetran -> SoT does NOT work.

Fettigator only works when you reveal a bank maneuver. It still holds true with what I stated above. Revealing a bank maneuver satisfies both "when you reveal a bank maneuver" and "when you reveal a maneuver" so both trigger and you get to choose the order. The thing about navigator is it only affects the speed of the maneuver, not the bearing. There is no ruling on whether SoT and fett would would work when revealing a non-bank maneuver.

I'm sending this over to FFG again, they never replied when I asked last time.

Thanks for sending over. The bank limitation is another potentially key difference, perhaps counterbalanced by the red maneuver per Stay on Target granting more flexibility but with consequences, but I look forward to FFG's response.

I am of the opinion that it doesn't work, and that's based on very specific language that is different on Tetran's ability vs. Fett, Navigator, and SoT. Let's go step by step. Note: SoT -> Tetran works, just not Tetran -> SoT.

1) Select a 3K

2) Reveal a 3K

3a) Tetran's ability kicks in, at this point, you may TREAT the 3k as a 1k. Note, the dial still shows 3K.

3b) SoT ability kicks in, and you can rotate your dial (which is still showing 3K) to any maneuver of speed 3.

So, since Tetran doesn't have you actually rotate the dial, like Fett, Navigator, and SoT all have you do, it doesn't physically change the dial to allow SoT to modify the dial again. Now, as for why the language on Tetran is different than the other abilities, my guess would be because that you cannot rotate to a 1K or 5K since it's not on the dial. As such, in the spirit of being able to stack SoT with Tetran, FFG may FAQ it such that you can use the two. However, the wording as it currently stands is very clear, and Tetran -> SoT does NOT work.

Apparently Alex answered this question today.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/138495-tetran-cowall-is-now-awesome/

Thanks all for the answers, and glad to see the official one!

Now, off to build some lists....

Edit: official answer is

"If Tetran Cowall is equipped with the Stay On Target Upgrade card and reveals a [k-turn] maneuver, he may first treat the speed of that maneuver as "1," "3," or "5", then use Stay on Target rotate his dial to another maneuver of that chosen speed. He may also reveal a maneuver, use Stay On Target to rotate his dial to a [k-turn] maneuver, then treat the speed of that maneuver as "1," "3," or "5."

Even better than I thought might come back fro FFG, and consistent with my second post, that is fantastic! I've got a new 3 squint list to try!

Soontir, PTL, RGT, SU, AT

Turr, VI, RGT, SU, AT

Tetran, SoT, RGT, SU, AT

Arc dodger awesomeness!

Even better than I thought might come back fro FFG, and consistent with my second post, that is fantastic! I've got a new 3 squint list to try!

Soontir, PTL, RGT, SU, AT

Turr, VI, RGT, SU, AT

Tetran, SoT, RGT, SU, AT

Arc dodger awesomeness!

I honestly feel a bit sad that I completely and totally understand every one of those abbreviations

_{I believe it will work one way but not so well the other way.}

_{When you reveal your K-turn you can change the speed and then the maneuver. There certainly can be questions about how it works but it should work in some ways even if not all ways. Tetran's trigger allows you treat the speed as 1, 3, or 5 but it does NOT actually change the dial. SoT allows you to rotate the dial to another maneuver of the revealed speed.}

_{If you do NOT reveal a K-turn then Tetran's ability never triggers. I guess if you then set a K-turn at the revealed speed, assuming you have one, you could change that turns speed but it isn't as powerful.}