Question: Alric Farrow's Overpower vs. Nimble

By The_Warlock, in Descent: Journeys in the Dark

Apparently this question should have been already asked and answered, but I'm unable to find anything in this forum.

Scenario: The Man Who Would Be King EN 1. 3 heroes one adjacent to the other in a diagonal line, chasing Splig. Sir Alric is just one space away from the last of them and plans to use Overpower instead of making a normal move action.

Alric moves adjacent to first hero, tests Might and trades spaces with him. Then he moves adjacent to the second (he's already adjacent, but Overpower requires to "move" into an adjacent space) and repeats. He's now adjacent to the third hero, and this hero is a Wildlander with Nimble ability.

Question 1: when Alric trades spaces with a hero, is it treated like he had moved into the hero's space?

If yes, then he could immediately test Might on a second hero without the need to move 1 space.

If not, this implies that the Wildlander is unable to use Nimble when Alric becomes adjacent to him thanks to space trading. This means Alric can attack the Wildlander and he won't use Nimble to flee, provided the lieutenant stops the move action granted by Overpower.

Question 2: if the answer to Question 1 is yes, the Wildlander could use Nimble as soon as Alric enters an adjacent space. Since Nimble and Overpower have the same wording, which one gets precedence and why?

Edited by The_Warlock

This one is tricky. Since it has already been ruled that Alric's trading is not a "move" to trigger overpower again, I would argue that it is not considered "moving" into an adjacent space for "nimble," either (that would seem to be a double standard)- though he is definitely entering a space when he trades.

Were it not for the previous ruling about Overpower, I'd consider the trading of spaces to count as moving, since Alric is leaving a space and entering a new one. However, as I said, allowing it to count for one ability and not another hardly seems fair. It's easier to call this one instance (trading spaces) "not moving."

He cannot interrupt overpower since it's a monster action, he would have to end it to attack.

In the case where Alric does in fact move into a space adjacent to the wildlander, Alric would be able to trade spaces before the wildlander can move away, since it's during the OL's turn. The wildlander would then be able to resolve nimble after trading spaces.

Edited by Zaltyre

Strange that Nimble reads "moves into" and not "enters" but I notice that guard has the same kind of text.

So I guess Guard would not apply in this case either.

Strange that Nimble reads "moves into" and not "enters" but I notice that guard has the same kind of text.

So I guess Guard would not apply in this case either.

Right- like I said- rather than trying to determine in every case which ability does and doesn't work, the simpler solution (consistent with FFG's ruling about Overpower "triggering itself") is to just say that when Alric "trades spaces," that isn't "moving into" a space. All that happens when you do this is you're replacing the effect of Overpower with "...remove Alric from the map and place him in the hero's space. Remove the hero from the map and place him in Alric's space" (which wouldn't be "moving into" a space.) The language gets kind of convoluted.

This one is tricky. Since it has already been ruled that Alric's trading is not a "move" to trigger overpower again, I would argue that it is not considered "moving" into an adjacent space for "nimble," either (that would seem to be a double standard)- though he is definitely entering a space when he trades.

I don't know where this has been ruled, otherwise I would have been sure this is the way to go.

I'm aware of the FAQ and of the unofficial compiled FAQ on BGG, but I could not find anything about Overpower. I've searched a bit more and found this on BGG:

Answer from Nathan after inquiry :

Both Alric and the hero enter the space they trade with the other figure. Alric does not count as moving into the space, this is what prevents the infinite do-si-do. The ability specifically says “moves into a space.” This ruling is consistent with other rulings I have made in the past on the Overpower ability. I try to stay consistent with past rulings, but sometimes things need to be realigned to make sure that they are functioning as clearly as possible.

So for preventing a potentially infinite "trading" that costs the Hero 1 Fatigue (or 1 Health) each time, they have ruled that Alric's trading is not considered as moving. Then it is clear that Nimble cannot be triggered, because it uses the word "moves into an adjacent space".

This should be written in an official FAQ though, as well as many other things. It's so difficult to find clarifications about this game among hundreds of scattered posts.

Thank you guys for your insigh!

I'm pretty sure that's the thread I was thinking of- I didn't realize it hadn't made it to the unofficial FAQ.I'll put in a note about this ability and "moving into a space" when I update my glossary.

Edited by Zaltyre

Glossary?

Glossary! !

WHERE? ?!! I must have.