I am sure it has come up, I just was not around to read or hear about it, is there a link that I can read?

Don't have any links for you, but I believe it's been acknowledged in interviews and there's a trend of newer ordnance costing less and having good control elements, like stress or ion. They definitely seem to be aware of it.

Didn't Alex state that Wave 7 will be a sort of "fix" for ordnance? Does that mean they are changing rules on how ordnance works or something? I can't recall exactly what he said, but it was a recent interview.

I think he stated that the Tie Bomber was going to get some love and acknowledged that ordnance wasn't a hit.

...and didn't state a specific wave.

No he did mention wave 7 specifically. And if I recall, he described it as "bomber love." I hope it's not just a fix specifically for TIE bombers, but a fix to ordinance in general. The TIE bomber would hopefully just profit the most from it.

I would say munitions failsafe was a boost to ordnance users. The Andrasta title costing 0. The btl title costing 0. IG88B, coupled with the IG-2000 title. All of these have a part in trying to get more non-primary attack damage in. So I would say they have at least somewhat addressed the problem. Plus as Hockeyzombie said, new cheaper ordnance with control features helps as well.

When I think of ordnance in Star Wars, I don't think of things like ion or flechette missiles that stun and disorient ships -- I think of Luke's proton torpedoes blowing the Death Star to pieces. I'd really like to see disposable weapons that do real damage, significantly more than what a ship can do with its primary weapon, but priced more affordably than what's currently available. All these things have been repeated ad nauseam, and at this point I trust FFG to use their six waves of experience to bring ordnance back to a balanced power level.

Strong Ordnance would be nice, but it would suck if it was SO strong that It would be stupid NOT to equip it on every ship. I'd all 4 dice Torps were actually 5 dice Torps, this game would suddenly become more "Alpha Strike" oriented, possibly with all ships.

I think fixes for Ordnance should be such that they ramp up damage for ships like the Bomber that were meant to be Ordnance platforms. Maybe anything with like 2 Torp/Missile slots or something like that, idk.

Just not something that works amazing on every ship, such that it makes you feel bad when you DONT use it.

Though can you imagine, if all our Missiles and Torps were actually +1 attack value for the same cost. What a world this would be!

Don't worry - I already solved it

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/137929-simple-ordnance-fix/page-3#entry1494719

We have tried playing where the ordnance shot was used in addition to the normal attack, rather than either/or. Not all secondary weapons, only expendables. It isn't as powerful as it appears at first glance because of the poor action economy (multiple shots, some needing to spend TL just to fire, but no more actions to be accurate). It does however make spending 4 points for a 4 die proton torpedo attack more palatable if you don't have to give up your normal 3 dice attack to perform it.

I expect some sort of reload mechanism

I would say munitions failsafe was a boost to ordnance users.

It was certainly intended as such. Unfortunately it did not have that effect.

Munitions Failsafe is a failed attempt at improving ordnance.

I expect some sort of reload mechanism

If someone gives me something that isn't very good - giving me more of that something won't be of much help.

I'd be perfectly happy with one-shot missiles if that one-shot had a chance of being a good one.

Actually, Homing Missiles are pretty good barring the price tag. You get a modified shot that negates evade tokens, which is nice.

Due to some odd league rules, I've been getting really good use out of ordnance, though that's only because they're one point a piece.

Actually, Homing Missiles are pretty good barring the price tag. You get a modified shot that negates evade tokens, which is nice.

Due to some odd league rules, I've been getting really good use out of ordnance, though that's only because they're one point a piece.

I dunno about this one. It may just be my play area, but almost no one uses evades if they have a chance to shoot someone. homing missiles seem too situational

I expect some sort of reload mechanism

If someone gives me something that isn't very good - giving me more of that something won't be of much help.

I'd be perfectly happy with one-shot missiles if that one-shot had a chance of being a good one.

I disagree. When they meet the criteria for triggering, munitions like concussions and proton torpedoes are quite good. The problem is that they are A) moderately difficult to trigger and B) one shot only. There is a ton of lost potential later in a game when a missile or torpedo carrier could potentially get another shot off.

Removing either one of these barriers would make ordinance better, but I think a mod to re-arm and re-use them would be the easier fix.

I would say munitions failsafe was a boost to ordnance users.

It was certainly intended as such. Unfortunately it did not have that effect.

Munitions Failsafe is a failed attempt at improving ordnance.

I think this is an inaccurate statement. It failed to improve ordnance ENOUGH to be widespread, but I think it factually improves ordnance pretty substantially.

I disagree. When they meet the criteria for triggering, munitions like concussions and proton torpedoes are quite good. The problem is that they are A) moderately difficult to trigger and B) one shot only. There is a ton of lost potential later in a game when a missile or torpedo carrier could potentially get another shot off.

Removing either one of these barriers would make ordinance better, but I think a mod to re-arm and re-use them would be the easier fix.

I think you're right that a reload mechanism could and should be a part of it - and I also think you're right that relaxing the barriers to triggering the shot might be another.

I'm more inclined towards the argument that making it easier to get the shot off, and making it a successful one in the first place is the best starting point.

But that's going to work better for MissileMooks and elite pilots who can stack actions.

Reloads are going to work best on the dedicated torpedo and missile boats - B-Wing - Y-Wing and Bomber

A comprehensive solution needs to address both sides

We have tried playing where the ordnance shot was used in addition to the normal attack, rather than either/or. Not all secondary weapons, only expendables. It isn't as powerful as it appears at first glance because of the poor action economy (multiple shots, some needing to spend TL just to fire, but no more actions to be accurate). It does however make spending 4 points for a 4 die proton torpedo attack more palatable if you don't have to give up your normal 3 dice attack to perform it.

Did you specify the order attacks happen in? Primary w/ focus -> FCS -> Torpedo would be a pretty effective volley. Or Primary -> ICT (via BTL-A4) -> Flechette from Drea... all with re-rolls and R4-B11 just because... gotta love stress

I disagree. When they meet the criteria for triggering, munitions like concussions and proton torpedoes are quite good. The problem is that they are A) moderately difficult to trigger and B) one shot only. There is a ton of lost potential later in a game when a missile or torpedo carrier could potentially get another shot off.

Removing either one of these barriers would make ordinance better, but I think a mod to re-arm and re-use them would be the easier fix.

I think you're right that a reload mechanism could and should be a part of it - and I also think you're right that relaxing the barriers to triggering the shot might be another.

I'm more inclined towards the argument that making it easier to get the shot off, and making it a successful one in the first place is the best starting point.

But that's going to work better for MissileMooks and elite pilots who can stack actions.

Reloads are going to work best on the dedicated torpedo and missile boats - B-Wing - Y-Wing and Bomber

A comprehensive solution needs to address both sides

Reloads are rough unless you have free actions aplenty. Attack Wing has many secondaries that you can reload with an action, and many of them still aren't great since they also require TLs most of the time. Two actions required per shot = nope. An that allows you to discard it instead of the missile/torpedo would be helpful, whether it's a mod or something that fills a second missile/torpedo slot. Basically a 2-for-1 card.

Or a slightly more expensive card that says you don't discard missiles/torps when firing them. Basically a big, full magazine. Trouble is that in the fluff, munitions are hugely expensive so ships were rarely packed to the gills with infinite munitions. It would need to be pretty expensive.

The biggest issue IMO is getting a range 2-3 TL with a low PS mook. With all the hoops you need to jump through to make secondaries reliable, you're often better off with modified primary attacks. Proton Rockets were a great mechanic to patch the Agility 3 ships with missile slots, as they needed a damage spike option, but I don't expect other torps or missiles to use similar mechanics.

I feel like most ordinance would be a lot better if there weren't so many restrictions on it- the Arm ability is interesting, but it seems like a lot of little additions to improve ordinance, where I'd like to see a single, fluid change. Honestly, most of the basic ordinance like proton torpedoes, would be a lot more usable if they didn't require you to SPEND your target lock, just have one. Then you could still modify your dice, and have a single shot with a decent chance of slipping in some damage. Add on some reusability in some fashion or cheaper ordinance (Like if the X-wings got an Advanced style Title, only it makes torpedoes 4 points less) and they'd at least be a more palatable choice.

Reloads are rough unless you have free actions aplenty. Attack Wing has many secondaries that you can reload with an action, and many of them still aren't great since they also require TLs most of the time. Two actions required per shot = nope. An that allows you to discard it instead of the missile/torpedo would be helpful, whether it's a mod or something that fills a second missile/torpedo slot. Basically a 2-for-1 card.

The biggest issue IMO is getting a range 2-3 TL with a low PS mook. With all the hoops you need to jump through to make secondaries reliable, you're often better off with modified primary attacks. Proton Rockets were a great mechanic to patch the Agility 3 ships with missile slots, as they needed a damage spike option, but I don't expect other torps or missiles to use similar mechanics.

Like I said - don't worry - I solved it

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/137929-simple-ordnance-fix/page-3#entry1494719

lack of ordinance

probably leads to chaos.

I say YAY to Imperial order.

I feel like most ordinance would be a lot better if there weren't so many restrictions on it- the Arm ability is interesting, but it seems like a lot of little additions to improve ordinance, where I'd like to see a single, fluid change. Honestly, most of the basic ordinance like proton torpedoes, would be a lot more usable if they didn't require you to SPEND your target lock, just have one. Then you could still modify your dice, and have a single shot with a decent chance of slipping in some damage. Add on some reusability in some fashion or cheaper ordinance (Like if the X-wings got an Advanced style Title, only it makes torpedoes 4 points less) and they'd at least be a more palatable choice.

The problem with this is that you end up having to change the rules wholesale to reduce the restrictions - that's fine for house rules and is a perfectly acceptible way to house-rule this issue - but not so much for an official solution

Any solution needs to work within the existing ruleset and the existing suite of upgrades that we already have.

I would say munitions failsafe was a boost to ordnance users.

It was certainly intended as such. Unfortunately it did not have that effect.

Munitions Failsafe is a failed attempt at improving ordnance.

I think this is an inaccurate statement. It failed to improve ordnance ENOUGH to be widespread, but I think it factually improves ordnance pretty substantially.

I actually happen to think it was a fairly accurate description. He clearly was implying the usage of single use ordnance in competitive play, and even if he was referring to the wider game in a casual sense in my own experience at least MF has not at all had a “substantial” impact.

In fact I would say that from the results I have seen as well as anecdotal evidence MF has had an inconsequential impact and quite fairly described as a failed remedy for single use ordnance.