Long time player/first time GM - advice please.

By QuinnDx, in Star Wars: Edge of the Empire RPG

Hello! Long timer player reporting, but hopefully soon first time GM too.

Some friends and I picked this game up last year and we've had a lot of fun playing both the Beginner's Adventure and some of the official add-ons, but recently some of the magic has gone out of the experience and half of the the group decided it just wasn't as much fun anymore. Without going into too much detail, I think the problem lies somewhere between us glossing over the rules too much (and I'm a stickler) and/or treating the whole thing as a 'game' rather than a story/narrative and it just sort of became unimaginative and grindy.

So now I'm keen to step up as GM for some of the remaining players and try a few things differently, but I wanted some advice:

1. Is three players in a group too little?

2. Something the players always did in our last group did was too much 'perception checking' - everytime someone walked into a room/changed environment/spotted a character/whenever really, someone would yell PERCEPTION CHECK and it really killed the pacing. Is there something I can do to counteract this? Maybe make perception checks more passive? (ie, one roll for the session to determine how alert a character is for the 'day'?)

3. How do other GMs handle looting? Almost always after defeating something/someone in combat, one player in particular would always interject with "I loot the corpse" straight away and it frustrated the other players. Suitable for a dungeon crawler sure, but I'm not fond of that mentality for this kind of community game. Should NPCs even drop stuff not specific to the story? (At the end of any given encounter, we always had a teeny tiny teenage Twi'lek in the party carrying a metric fuckton of blaster rifles/pistols and armour without penalty to sell at a vendor.)

4. More in line with the previous question: players are greedy! Should I let that slide, even though it bugs me? Because I don't want players getting discouraged from exploring a scene just because someone else speaks first. For example: almost always, a container would be looted by just one person in the party and, even though the players knew what happened, the GM always endorsed a 'first come first take' policy. If a character can get away with taking something without the other characters 'noticing', you couldn't do squat about it and this had all the players rushing for corpses/containers first rather than seeing how the rest of the scenes plays out.

Are these valid concerns? Or am I trying the 'Play School' the experience a little too much? I just really want to keep the game as fun as possible without anyone getting discouraged/frustrated with other players.

Any insight from experienced GMs would be appreciated!

For me three players is almost ideal! Each player gets more of the spotlight.

As far as looting, excessive perception checks, etc, it might be worth having an out-of-character conversation about the TONE of your game.

If your players are nervous or afraid that something terrible might happen to them if they don't do a perception check, or if they think that it's worth doing such un-Star-Warsy things as looting the bodies of every enemy they kill and trying to sell armfuls of Imperial rifles, etc...

...you might just have a chat with them about the tone of a heroic adventure story. If that's what you're going for, the more or less standard tone of Star Wars is heroic adventure, where altruistic people put themselves in great danger in order to accomplish something great or to defeat a terrible enemy.

You might just tell them, GM to players, "You don't NEED to volunteer a Perception check in every room. If there's something significant or dangerous enough to call for it, I'll ask you to make one."

You might also just talk to them about whether it's appropriate or worthwhile to loot every enemy.

This won't necessarily 'solve' your problem but it's a start!

Hello! Long timer player reporting, but hopefully soon first time GM too.

Some friends and I picked this game up last year and we've had a lot of fun playing both the Beginner's Adventure and some of the official add-ons, but recently some of the magic has gone out of the experience and half of the the group decided it just wasn't as much fun anymore. Without going into too much detail, I think the problem lies somewhere between us glossing over the rules too much (and I'm a stickler) and/or treating the whole thing as a 'game' rather than a story/narrative and it just sort of became unimaginative and grindy.

So now I'm keen to step up as GM for some of the remaining players and try a few things differently, but I wanted some advice:

1. Is three players in a group too little?

2. Something the players always did in our last group did was too much 'perception checking' - everytime someone walked into a room/changed environment/spotted a character/whenever really, someone would yell PERCEPTION CHECK and it really killed the pacing. Is there something I can do to counteract this? Maybe make perception checks more passive? (ie, one roll for the session to determine how alert a character is for the 'day'?)

3. How do other GMs handle looting? Almost always after defeating something/someone in combat, one player in particular would always interject with "I loot the corpse" straight away and it frustrated the other players. Suitable for a dungeon crawler sure, but I'm not fond of that mentality for this kind of community game. Should NPCs even drop stuff not specific to the story? (At the end of any given encounter, we always had a teeny tiny teenage Twi'lek in the party carrying a metric fuckton of blaster rifles/pistols and armour without penalty to sell at a vendor.)

4. More in line with the previous question: players are greedy! Should I let that slide, even though it bugs me? Because I don't want players getting discouraged from exploring a scene just because someone else speaks first. For example: almost always, a container would be looted by just one person in the party and, even though the players knew what happened, the GM always endorsed a 'first come first take' policy. If a character can get away with taking something without the other characters 'noticing', you couldn't do squat about it and this had all the players rushing for corpses/containers first rather than seeing how the rest of the scenes plays out.

Are these valid concerns? Or am I trying the 'Play School' the experience a little too much? I just really want to keep the game as fun as possible without anyone getting discouraged/frustrated with other players.

Any insight from experienced GMs would be appreciated!

1. The game was set up for optimally running 4 char. You can run more or you can run less it's all up to you.

2. Perception checks, when they say they want to do that and there is nothing simply say you don't perceive anything if nothing is there. (an old D&D trick) if there is nothing there there is nothing there, say this before they roll. If something is there let them roll and if they are not successful, then they will start to cut down on their rolls.

3. There are a lot of threads about looting in this forum, if you do a search for RebelDave, you will find his posts about the same issue and lots of help to slow that down. One thing that was suggested to him to stymie this was to force the party members to have to spend all the loot they found to repair ships.

4. See number 3 and don't let it slide, fringers should be barely getting by.

progressions probably put the links I was talking about

Hope this helps get you started.

Edited by Osprey

What are they trying to perceive? Some of your players may be stuck in D&D mode. It's not like there are secret doors around every corner. I get why it's a problem though as they're continually asking for these checks can hold up the game all for you to just say "you perceive nothing out of the ordinary" and then everyone else jumping on the bandwagon.

Have a conversation with them and explain this.

As to looting, it takes time and this is something the players may not have. Also, looting may also raise the ire of either the people that sent the now dead bodies or the cops who discover them looting them. Doesn't look good, especially when there are crowds around. And do not forget encumbrance rules if they continue to do so.

Number 4 is just bad GMing if he was promoting such action. And it fosters negative game play. It is one of the reasons why having characters at odds is rarely a good thing.

Agree about having "the conversation" with your group before you start. Explain it's a different style of game and you will be GMing it differently from what they might be used to. Player habits are hard to break, so in the beginning you might have to be patient. Find ways to discourage them from their old behaviour without it looking like you're doing it on purpose...as mouthymerc suggested, find ways to use the environment: gathering crowds, a second (larger) wave of stormtroopers, etc. Keep them on the move and they won't have enough time to think about looting and claiming possession.

3 players + 1 GM? or three total, 2 players + 1 GM? Not that it matters. Small groups are fine. This isn't 4e D&D where you needed a 4 man team, one of each character type. This is a narrative system where players can figure things out. If they don't have the skills to accomplish the task, then finding someone who can do it for them is always a reasonable side quest.

Perception check in every room? Show me on this doll where the bad GM hurt you. This sounds like past GMs surprised them with gotcha moments. "You didn't say you were looking so the badguys are ambushing you. HAHA!" As said above, chat with the players about your expectations in how you'll run. If you don't plan on doing gotcha surprises then tell them so and follow the above tips to reinforce this in game.

The only tips I can give for looting are to keep track of encumbrance, keep the clocking ticking, and remind players how hard it is to sell stuff for a decent profit. Resale values are low and selling Imperial Stormtrooper weapons and armor might get them into trouble. Also, have a session zero conversation with them about these expectations.

As for the last question, eh. That sounds like a play group thing and would need a conversation with the players to change this. My group always assumes that we all see everything that is being "looted". The only exceptions are when a player wants to be sneaky about it (usually when something that could be dangerous is found and the player wants to keep it, such as hiding an evil weapon from a Paladin in D&D) and the GM calls for a Stealth check or something to keep the others from noticing. This really seems to be a fair play issue and if the players are happy playing characters who are greedy like that, then so be it. However, if someone doesn't think that this is fun then it's worth having a group conversation about it.

1. Is three players in a group too little?

Small but serviceable. There may be a gap or two in the skills category is all. Just remember what the party is capable of when you plan your adventures and you'll be fine. If you're really worried, toss em 10-30 XP after character creation for use to buy non career skill ranks in skills they notice a gap in.

Something the players always did in our last group did was too much 'perception checking' - everytime someone walked into a room/changed environment/spotted a character/whenever really, someone would yell PERCEPTION CHECK and it really killed the pacing. Is there something I can do to counteract this? Maybe make perception checks more passive? (ie, one roll for the session to determine how alert a character is for the 'day'?)

If they're just doing it out of paranoia, just kill it. "There's nothing critical that I haven't mentioned. Don't bother rolling, there will be no results. Moving on you enter the room and...."

I'm guessing D&D and fear of excessive double crosses and traps....

How do other GMs handle looting? Almost always after defeating something/someone in combat, one player in particular would always interject with "I loot the corpse" straight away and it frustrated the other players. Suitable for a dungeon crawler sure, but I'm not fond of that mentality for this kind of community game. Should NPCs even drop stuff not specific to the story? (At the end of any given encounter, we always had a teeny tiny teenage Twi'lek in the party carrying a metric fuckton of blaster rifles/pistols and armour without penalty to sell at a vendor.)

Lots of solutions but core:

Before even starting, remind them it's star wars and while they are welcome to search everything, not to go overboard because:

1) Encumbrance will be tracked (this will fix a lot of problems, just follow the rules, stuff, especially armor not actively being worn, gets heavy)

2) This isn't an X-box game with bad AI. If you walk around wearing Stormtrooper armor (without actually trying to pass yourself off as a stormtrooper), someone's going to notice and not be happy about it. Likewise showing up at a pawn shop with a bunch of Imperial issue blaster rifles is going to go about as well as showing up at a real pawn shop with a bunch of Army issue M-16 rifles.

3) When you do vendor stuff, follow the rules for selling stuff. You'll find most items aren't worth their enc, and some items will likely get you shot.

4) Just tell the players beyond what you wanted them to find the rest is junk or unsellable. Jabba the Hutt's goons didn't seem like the kind of guys to carry high end well maintained stuff, and as we mentioned stormtrooper hardware isn't exactly gonna fly off the shelves.

More in line with the previous question: players are greedy! Should I let that slide, even though it bugs me? Because I don't want players getting discouraged from exploring a scene just because someone else speaks first. For example: almost always, a container would be looted by just one person in the party and, even though the players knew what happened, the GM always endorsed a 'first come first take' policy. If a character can get away with taking something without the other characters 'noticing', you couldn't do squat about it and this had all the players rushing for corpses/containers first rather than seeing how the rest of the scenes plays out.

Again....D&D?

That sounds like a green (or a-hole) GM. How the players divide up loot is indeed up to them, but if a player is intentionally hording loot that he knows wasn't "for him" then just give him a warning that the GM may not tolerate that very long. And then follow through. 10 Points of obligation here, 5 points there... it's all fun and games till no one is allowed to level up because one player couldn't keep it in his pants.

Also, to avoid the BS "But that's what my character would do!" response, review all characters prior to play. (this is just good practice across the board). Anyone with Obligation, Motivation, or something else that looks like it will be a problem, require it to be changed. Obligation:Kleptomania is a big red flag for me unless I know the player is mature enough to handle it.

1. Is three players in a group too little?

Small but serviceable. There may be a gap or two in the skills category is all. Just remember what the party is capable of when you plan your adventures and you'll be fine. If you're really worried, toss em 10-30 XP after character creation for use to buy non career skill ranks in skills they notice a gap in.

Something the players always did in our last group did was too much 'perception checking' - everytime someone walked into a room/changed environment/spotted a character/whenever really, someone would yell PERCEPTION CHECK and it really killed the pacing. Is there something I can do to counteract this? Maybe make perception checks more passive? (ie, one roll for the session to determine how alert a character is for the 'day'?)

If they're just doing it out of paranoia, just kill it. "There's nothing critical that I haven't mentioned. Don't bother rolling, there will be no results. Moving on you enter the room and...."

I'm guessing D&D and fear of excessive double crosses and traps....

How do other GMs handle looting? Almost always after defeating something/someone in combat, one player in particular would always interject with "I loot the corpse" straight away and it frustrated the other players. Suitable for a dungeon crawler sure, but I'm not fond of that mentality for this kind of community game. Should NPCs even drop stuff not specific to the story? (At the end of any given encounter, we always had a teeny tiny teenage Twi'lek in the party carrying a metric fuckton of blaster rifles/pistols and armour without penalty to sell at a vendor.)

Lots of solutions but core:

Before even starting, remind them it's star wars and while they are welcome to search everything, not to go overboard because:

1) Encumbrance will be tracked (this will fix a lot of problems, just follow the rules, stuff, especially armor not actively being worn, gets heavy)

2) This isn't an X-box game with bad AI. If you walk around wearing Stormtrooper armor (without actually trying to pass yourself off as a stormtrooper), someone's going to notice and not be happy about it. Likewise showing up at a pawn shop with a bunch of Imperial issue blaster rifles is going to go about as well as showing up at a real pawn shop with a bunch of Army issue M-16 rifles.

3) When you do vendor stuff, follow the rules for selling stuff. You'll find most items aren't worth their enc, and some items will likely get you shot.

4) Just tell the players beyond what you wanted them to find the rest is junk or unsellable. Jabba the Hutt's goons didn't seem like the kind of guys to carry high end well maintained stuff, and as we mentioned stormtrooper hardware isn't exactly gonna fly off the shelves.

More in line with the previous question: players are greedy! Should I let that slide, even though it bugs me? Because I don't want players getting discouraged from exploring a scene just because someone else speaks first. For example: almost always, a container would be looted by just one person in the party and, even though the players knew what happened, the GM always endorsed a 'first come first take' policy. If a character can get away with taking something without the other characters 'noticing', you couldn't do squat about it and this had all the players rushing for corpses/containers first rather than seeing how the rest of the scenes plays out.

Again....D&D?

That sounds like a green (or a-hole) GM. How the players divide up loot is indeed up to them, but if a player is intentionally hording loot that he knows wasn't "for him" then just give him a warning that the GM may not tolerate that very long. And then follow through. 10 Points of obligation here, 5 points there... it's all fun and games till no one is allowed to level up because one player couldn't keep it in his pants.

Also, to avoid the BS "But that's what my character would do!" response, review all characters prior to play. (this is just good practice across the board). Anyone with Obligation, Motivation, or something else that looks like it will be a problem, require it to be changed. Obligation:Kleptomania is a big red flag for me unless I know the player is mature enough to handle it.

Exactly...what I think, they were programed for this in other games, that programing is hard to break, don't let them roll perception unless there is something to perceive, and follow all these guys are saying cause I know RebelDave did and he and his group are happier for it.

Remind them at the beginning of the game you're here to run game for them, not play a game against them.

They should be declaring actions, not die rolls. "I make a perception check" does not mean they looked for traps, it means the character just took out his chance cubes and threw them on the floor. "I look around for traps" is the correct statement.

1. Is three players in a group too little?

I frequently play with just a single player and single GM, and can make it work. I would say three players is almost perfect. Note with fewer players, when things go wrong, they'll have fewer resources to pull on to recover.

2. Something the players always did in our last group did was too much 'perception checking' - everytime someone walked into a room/changed environment/spotted a character/whenever really, someone would yell PERCEPTION CHECK and it really killed the pacing. Is there something I can do to counteract this? Maybe make perception checks more passive? (ie, one roll for the session to determine how alert a character is for the 'day'?)

3. How do other GMs handle looting? Almost always after defeating something/someone in combat, one player in particular would always interject with "I loot the corpse" straight away and it frustrated the other players. Suitable for a dungeon crawler sure, but I'm not fond of that mentality for this kind of community game. Should NPCs even drop stuff not specific to the story? (At the end of any given encounter, we always had a teeny tiny teenage Twi'lek in the party carrying a metric fuckton of blaster rifles/pistols and armour without penalty to sell at a vendor.)

Remember, it is the GM who calls for Perception checks, not the group (though they can ask for one if they think it appropriate). The group should describe their actions and then you decide if a roll is appropriate. For example, if a group wants to be ready and prepared, instead of calling for Perception checks they can instead narrate being vigilant:

Covering their bases Vex and Rwarrl enter the building, weapons at the ready and watching all angles, Davik follows behind covering their backs. Through the doors they find a lobby with a couple rows of benches and four public comm terminals lining the side walls. They are alert and ask for a check (knowing there is nothing of interest in the room you tell them so), finding nothing they proceed through the doors at the back of the room, again moving cautiously.

Here they encounter a reception desk with a security officer, face lit up from the monitor holding his attention. Not immediately obvious is four guards sitting behind a pair of blinds bracketing the entry door (You call for a Vigilance check, Easy difficulty adding one Setback die because of the blinds and adding two Boost dice because of the group's posture; Vex has the best Vigilance so she makes the roll for the group).

After dealing with the guards and officer the practical Vex drops her drained pistol and grabs another off a guard. The covetous Davik eyes the rest of the guards' gear (you quickly tell his player that without the time to bypass the middlemen, selling on the black market would net them very little and it is unlikely to be worth the blood, sweat, and tears of talking Rwarrl into acting as party pack-mule).

Realizing the door to the right is the janitor's closet, the group proceeds through the large doors to the left entering the warehouse's storeroom lined with stacks of crates, some four meters high. Maintaining formation, they quickly clear the room, confirming there are no threats. Thinking these crates might contain what they're looking for Davik starts reading labels and Rwarrl starts ripping some open (You call for a Perception check, Average difficulty, add two Setback for the sheer number of crates and one boost die as they assist each other in their search; Rwarrl has the best Perception so he makes the roll), all while Vex keeps an eye open for trouble. Their hopes begin to fall as they find crate after crate contains worthless stem-bolts just as the labels say, until Rwarrl discovers some of the crates are hiding Vidium ingots under the stembolts. Loading the ingots onto a hover sledge they realize a fight will be inevitable the moment they open the cargo doors...

This way the players can get what they want, they're prepared and vigilant without slowing things down, and they can better suit their actions to their surroundings and situation... being prepared at a ball should likely be described differently. It also makes it easy to adjudicate when they take a narrative approach.

I find this approach works for most actions that may call for a roll, but are particularly suited Perception, Vigilance, and stealth rolls. The one big exception for my group has been combat checks, where the bulk of the description comes after the roll.

As far as looting goes, remember you form the foundation for the character perceptions; in the example above we curtail the looting by letting the player know what that time and effort is worth to them, Vex gained immediate reward for her simple desires, Davik finds little value for his extended desires, and they all see the value in finding and collecting the ingots, presumably this is why they're here.

I'd also note you can tailor these methods to your group, for instance I might turn the Vigilance rolls in to individual rolls (versus group rolls) and use them in place of Initiative as well. While dealing with looting may not be dealt with so simply, sometime you just have sit down and discuss the tone of the game that best suits the group and whether certain actions and choices are appropriate.

It might be worth having an out-of-character conversation about the TONE of your game.

I think this probably nails it. Thank you!

Thanks, I'll read these over. That first one in particular sounds like exactly what I'm expecting to deal with.

What are they trying to perceive? Some of your players may be stuck in D&D mode. It's not like there are secret doors around every corner. I get why it's a problem though as they're continually asking for these checks can hold up the game all for you to just say "you perceive nothing out of the ordinary" and then everyone else jumping on the bandwagon.

Number 4 is just bad GMing if he was promoting such action. And it fosters negative game play. It is one of the reasons why having characters at odds is rarely a good thing.

Just anything that the adventure specified they should be keeping an eye out for. Or yeah, I guess hidden caches or loot or whatever. The beginner's game had a lot of this hidden loot and I think that set the expectation for our future adventures.

I should clarify that none of us (I think) have ever played D&D before but we've all been heavily influenced by video games. Typical dungeon crawlers and MMOs come to mind. I've always kept a seperate mentality for tabletop gaming but for other people, some habits or hard to break.

And whilst our GM was perfectly adequate while we were learning all the ins and outs of the game, he was pretty green. And as time went on, we clashed a lot because I'm generally a stickler for rules but he wasn't so much (I read the rule book back to front twice, he apparently only ever skimmed it for the basics). It got frustrating to a point, because we'd end up ditching basic game mechanics entirely like obligations rolls, force die and even encumbrance. It's one of the main things I intend to do properly.

3 players + 1 GM? or three total, 2 players + 1 GM? Not that it matters. Small groups are fine. This isn't 4e D&D where you needed a 4 man team, one of each character type. This is a narrative system where players can figure things out. If they don't have the skills to accomplish the task, then finding someone who can do it for them is always a reasonable side quest.

Perception check in every room? Show me on this doll where the bad GM hurt you. This sounds like past GMs surprised them with gotcha moments. "You didn't say you were looking so the badguys are ambushing you. HAHA!" As said above, chat with the players about your expectations in how you'll run. If you don't plan on doing gotcha surprises then tell them so and follow the above tips to reinforce this in game.

3 players + 1 GM.

Our GM actually wasn't too bad, but he pulled a few dicks moves. Example: "the restrained droid you have with you in the party's vehicle slipped away unnoticed because none of you explicity said you were keeping an eye on it hah hah no bounty for you!" What sucked though is that I actually did say I had my weapon drawn and was keeping an eye on him, but with a large group like ours (it got to 6 players at one point) a lot of what gets said is drowned out and if the GM doesn't hear it, apparently it doesn't happen.

This isn't an X-box game with bad AI. If you walk around wearing Stormtrooper armor (without actually trying to pass yourself off as a stormtrooper), someone's going to notice and not be happy about it.

Haha, this made me laugh! :) I remember you could actually do this in the first Knights of the Old Republic game, confused the hell out of a lot of NPCs...

That sounds like a green (or a-hole) GM. How the players divide up loot is indeed up to them, but if a player is intentionally hording loot that he knows wasn't "for him" then just give him a warning that the GM may not tolerate that very long. And then follow through. 10 Points of obligation here, 5 points there... it's all fun and games till no one is allowed to level up because one player couldn't keep it in his pants.

Our GM had a very 'video game' attitude. It was good in theory, but it frustrated a lot of the players. Even when someone else was GMing and he played a character. When the group collectively found a bunch of stuff, he'd write everything down on his own sheet. The other GM let it slide because he assumed he was keeping track of the inventory for the group, but later on he became very adamant that everything we found was "his stuff" and no one else could use it without his permission.

I like your idea a lot though. I'll use that as a ceiling if I noticed it running rampant.

Remind them at the beginning of the game you're here to run game for them, not play a game against them.

They should be declaring actions, not die rolls. "I make a perception check" does not mean they looked for traps, it means the character just took out his chance cubes and threw them on the floor. "I look around for traps" is the correct statement.

Very good point.

Also, I think "I make a perception check" was probably the most commonly said phrase during our sessions. Even I did it a lot. Guilty!

Remember, it is the GM who calls for Perception checks, not the group (though they can ask for one if they think it appropriate). The group should describe their actions and then you decide if a roll is appropriate.

Good advice, thank you. This is something our GM really didn't do much, so the group kind of had to take over the prompts.

That sounds like a green (or a-hole) GM. How the players divide up loot is indeed up to them, but if a player is intentionally hording loot that he knows wasn't "for him" then just give him a warning that the GM may not tolerate that very long. And then follow through. 10 Points of obligation here, 5 points there... it's all fun and games till no one is allowed to level up because one player couldn't keep it in his pants.

Our GM had a very 'video game' attitude. It was good in theory, but it frustrated a lot of the players. Even when someone else was GMing and he played a character. When the group collectively found a bunch of stuff, he'd write everything down on his own sheet. The other GM let it slide because he assumed he was keeping track of the inventory for the group, but later on he became very adamant that everything we found was "his stuff" and no one else could use it without his permission.

I like your idea a lot though. I'll use that as a ceiling if I noticed it running rampant.

You may want to try what I usually do. Everyone has their character sheet that lists their personal belongings, and there's a separate inventory sheet. it's still maintained by a player, but it's intentionally kept separate from his character sheet to help drive home that it's all the random useful junk they've accumulated, but don't actually need on a regular basis and isn't claimed by any one player..

Seriously though just go back to the bad AI comment and don't be afraid to talk to your players. Always keep a mental picture (or if you have a talented artist in the group, an actual picture) of what each player looks like at any given time. So when you have the Heavy walking around with heavy battle armor and a repeating blaster and grenade launcher slung across his back, have everyone they encounter act like it. Modify the dice rolls to match. Have them get followed by cops, or barred from entering stores. Han Solo didn't wear what he wore because it had the best soak and defense rating...

This game actually runs a smidgen smoother if the players really design and run the character as appropriate. So the smuggler should wear a flight suit or catch vest or something, but probably not a suit of powered armor.

And if the smuggler does decide he needs to to look like a steel plated hydrocephalic gorilla, don't be afraid to say "Hey, that's your call, but I'll have to add more and harder enemies to match. And remember guys, XP is awarded for story completion, not by Challenge Rating, so a quick shoot out with 5 Stormtroopers and a long battle with 50 stormtroopers will give you the same loot rewards and XP..."

It's his decision, but as the GM it's ok to give him fair warning if he's doing something silly. And that's actually true on a lot of things the players will do.

Edited by Ghostofman

Generally, I find players develop bad habits because they want the game to be easier/safer/richer. The easiest way to blanket stop these behaviours is to have an out of game conversation about what they're doing, what they're trying to avoid, and state that you're willing to work with them, not against them, to accomplish those ends in a way that is more thematic and fun for everyone.

They perception check all the time? Are they afraid of traps? Reassure them that you won't spring things on then without asking them to roll perception if needed. Afraid they'll miss something like hidden loot? Tell them you'll describe their surroundings, and give them the chance to roll if there are hidden things they might have missed. They won't be deprived of a chance to see something, but don't have to slow the story down.

Always looting? Do they just want more cash? I always try to cut micro-managing from my games as much as possible, since I'm not here to run an economy simulator. I maintain a party "petty cash fund", contributing to it like another player, and then pay small transactions like food, docking fees, etc. from it unless its expense is story important. This way, players don't have to worry always about exactly how many credits they have. If looting one blaster or the entire room provides a few credits that go into the petty fund, where they make no real discernible difference, then there's no reward for players doing so. At the same time, they already have a petty fund that provides the service of paying small bills, so they're no longer concerned about squeezing every credit out of every transaction. I'm up-front about the fact that I'm fudging numbers, and don't want to have to track minutiae, and am willing to waive small fees they'd otherwise have to pay if they'll stop worrying about it.

In short, if your players are doing undesirable behaviour, you can penalize them for it if its disruptive, which is sometimes appropriate. However, you can also choose to reward them for not doing it, which could be open to abuse if exploited, but if their behaviour comes from actual fears about missing out on things, there's no harm in giving them the result they want, or close to it, and skipping the middle section where they have to disrupt the game to get it. After all, this system is about collaborating on a mutually-enjoyed narrative.

Frankly if they want to loot you are under no obligation to provide a market interested in buying those items or offering any kind of decent price for them. This isn't a video game. Blasters are pretty omnipresent; few vendors are going to be very interested in buying a few used blaster rifles (if they sell Blasters they probably buy them in bulk from the manufacturer or a retailer). What's their incentive to buy? And why would they pay more than like 10%? At that point they're doing the characters a favor taking it off their hands - it's not something they really need or want and if it's pretty clear by inference that its evidence of theft or murder, what's the NPC's incentive to get entangled in that?

Sounds like you've got a gorup of old school D&D players!

Point by point:

1. 3 players is not too few. Three is actualy my preferred number of players, but I'm currently running a one-on-one campaign. So three is definitely not too few.

2. Maybe introduce the idea of Passive Perception, and assure them that anything important will be pointed out to them, they are not going fall into a pit trap because they forgot to roll perception that one time they entered a room wiithout rolling.

3. I tend to run that most items killed NPCs were carrying are destroyed during the fight, besides maybe a blaster and other such mostly unimportant things

4. I've havd had experiance with greedy players in a SW game before, not as a GM but as a player in a SAGA edition group, our GM got around it by setting up a massive payoff, somethingtruly huge! it gave them something to work towards and focus on and at the end they got their payday.

EDIT: regarding the players hiding things from each other, not great stuff at the table, but maybe make them roll to convince every other player that they are not lying, they are bound to fail one of them and then they have to share!

hope that is of some help :)

Edited by Eridan

Frankly if they want to loot you are under no obligation to provide a market interested in buying those items or offering any kind of decent price for them. This isn't a video game. Blasters are pretty omnipresent; few vendors are going to be very interested in buying a few used blaster rifles (if they sell Blasters they probably buy them in bulk from the manufacturer or a retailer). What's their incentive to buy? And why would they pay more than like 10%? At that point they're doing the characters a favor taking it off their hands - it's not something they really need or want and if it's pretty clear by inference that its evidence of theft or murder, what's the NPC's incentive to get entangled in that?

On the subject if reselling, check out the Cargo Payout table in Fly Casual. You are dead on about 10%, or even less...

My two cents:

1) I've been GMing over twenty years, starting with WEG Star Wars. Most of my best games have been smaller groups, two players plus me. You have to write your encounters a little more carefully, and sometimes add an NPC to the group to fill the more glaring skill gaps. Droids are hand for this. A tech savant or slicer that socially is one stepped removed from Rainman works too.

2) You call perception checks, not them. Alternately, in game, how do NPCs react to a group of presumably heavily armed hombres constantly jumping around corners while pulling blasters and screaming 'AH HAH!'. A lot of failed social rolls due to the characters obviously out of control paranoia. Play it for a touch of humor, but they should get the idea.

3) Encumberance is your friend. Fences that won't deal with imperial goods or are affiliated with the underworld crowd you were fighting are your friends. Trying to sell slightly bloody blaster burned gear to, well, anyone is your friend. And don't forget the painful reality of carrying extra gear. Real life example: My father is one of the toughest, strongest men I know. On an elk hunt a couple years ago, his hunting buddy broke a couple ribs a few days before the hunt. Still insisted on going. When he fired his .50 black powder rifle, well, don't do that with broken ribs. My father had to carry his rifle, his gear, his buddy's rife and gear, haul his kill, and help his buddy back to the truck. Extra gear, extra weapons, loot, and injured party member. Pretty much wrecked my old man. Now imagine if he would have had to defend them from anything. Bear, thief, pissed off girl scout, whatever. Would not have gone well.

But uncooperative venders is probably the best in game option.

4) Greedy players. Well, that stuff they looted is expensive. Someone with money paid for it. Someone with money wants it back. People with money and a grudge often hire bounty hunters. They're now gunning for the whole group because of the greedy player. Who can't make a buck off the loot due to the uncooperative venders. Who are tipping off the bounty hunters. Plus, as GM, they only find stuff worth boosting if you say so.

I'm not an evil GM. I just believe in entertaining consequences.