Checked descent 2nd wiki, and found that many convetsion kit monsters been slightly rebalanced in Hero and Monsters collection sets. Like Dragons in the Conversion Kit during Act II had a health of 6 instead of 7 for the minion, and all figures lacked the Horrifying ability. Minion beastmen had a health of 2 instead of 4 in Act I, and health 4 instead of 5 in the Act II. Few other monsters got some changes as well.

So I'm wondering, are these changes like official? Should I use them for my Conversion Kit monsters?

Yes, they are official but only so far is as they can replace the old cards from the conversion kit.

There is nothing in any rules documentation that i know of that states that you MUST replace existing profiles with updated ones. No H&M kit? Keep using the conversion kit.

But if you are using any part of an expansion you should use all the parts of that expansion in line with the general expansion rules.

I would agree that you should try to be consistent with what expansions you're using. For example, if you're playing "Oath of the Outcast," you should really use that version of beastmen, bane spiders, and razorwings- that's what the quest was designed for.

I would agree that you should try to be consistent with what expansions you're using. For example, if you're playing "Oath of the Outcast," you should really use that version of beastmen, bane spiders, and razorwings- that's what the quest was designed for.

I can get behind this, as well. Those quests were balanced with specific versions of the monster in mind.

However, with Visions of Dawn coming out, in non-VoD quests I will still use the CK Ogre over the H&M version. The H&M version is pretty darn lousy.. I don't think I'd ever want to take it as an open group.

I see. Anyway, I think it would be nice if devs took some time to rebalance some OP creatures and add some power for the weak ones.

I will still use the CK Ogre over the H&M version

Wiki says that the only difference for Ogre is that Fleshmonger ability replaced Undying for Act 2 Master. Not so critical change IMO.

Wiki says that the only difference for Ogre is that Fleshmonger ability replaced Undying for Act 2 Master. Not so critical change IMO.

No, not just for Act 2 Master. For both Act 1 and Act 2 Master.

That is a critical change. Undying is one of the best monster abilities in the game.

It makes up for the Ogre's poor defenses to allow him to live long enough to be invaluable in certain quests, such as Castle Daerion. What makes Undying so good is it gives far more durability than it appears. Say you get some massive hit on the master Ogre for 12 damage when it has 1 hp left, that 11 hp overkill damage is completely lost and the OL gets a fresh, healthy minion ogre instead. Far better than any amount of bonus health. Furthermore, it has been cleansed of any conditions, hex tokens, bounty hunter marks, etc. that were on it. Better still, if the quest lets you reinforce this group, you get to replace it with another master Ogre next turn that also has Undying and can make yet another Ogre!

Meanwhile, Fleshmonger is nearly useless, especially on a monster with pathetic defenses for a large creature. There is no reason to ever take an H&M Ogre group over a Ynfernael Hulk unless traits forbid it in my view.

Wiki says that the only difference for Ogre is that Fleshmonger ability replaced Undying for Act 2 Master. Not so critical change IMO.

No, not just for Act 2 Master. For both Act 1 and Act 2 Master.

It looks like the wiki page someone created is incorrect then ( http://descent2e.wikia.com/wiki/Ogre ) as it only shows Fleshmonger for Act II (but that does seem silly to have it completely change abilities in the second Act, I can't think of any other monsters that do that).

It looks like the wiki page someone created is incorrect then ( http://descent2e.wikia.com/wiki/Ogre ) as it only shows Fleshmonger for Act II (but that does seem silly to have it completely change abilities in the second Act, I can't think of any other monsters that do that).

Its reasonable that they haven't updated it because the previews have never shown the Act I Ogre monster card. There is no precedent for the Act I monster having an entirely different ability from an Act II monster, however.

Sadly, they will likely be removing Undying and Split from all the re-released monsters, as otherwise they have to include additional minion figures, which is something FFG doesn't want to do (for cost reasons most likely)

Or they could just update those abilities to say "respecting group limits", although that would make 1/0 monsters with Undying pretty dumb, so maybe not.

Or just clarify that you are limited to X figures, group limit or not.

Got my hands on the Crusade of the Forgotten. And there is the rule: "If you use Conversion Kit, remove heroes and monsters with the same names, as in this expansion, and return them to the box". So, it is the rebalance, and I'll try to stick to the new rules.

About ogre, I agree that this nerf is pretty big, but there are already pretty many monsters and heroes that you will never use, specially when you use the Conversion Kit.

By the way, about that Fleshmonger ability, can someone explain to me how it should work when there are 2 ogres in game? Because tokens are placed on the card, not on the figure, so both ogres got additional hp? And if any of them will die they both will lose this boost?

By the way, about that Fleshmonger ability, can someone explain to me how it should work when there are 2 ogres in game? Because tokens are placed on the card, not on the figure, so both ogres got additional hp? And if any of them will die they both will lose this boost?

Only the master Ogre has Fleshmonger, not the minion.

Got my hands on the Crusade of the Forgotten. And there is the rule: "If you use Conversion Kit, remove heroes and monsters with the same names, as in this expansion, and return them to the box". So, it is the rebalance, and I'll try to stick to the new rules.

About ogre, I agree that this nerf is pretty big, but there are already pretty many monsters and heroes that you will never use, specially when you use the Conversion Kit.

Yes, if you choose to play with any of the components of Visions of Dawn in a given campaign, then by RAW you must use the lousy new Ogre, sadly. However, if you opt out of any given expansion at campaign onset you are exempt from its components.

By the way, about that Fleshmonger ability, can someone explain to me how it should work when there are 2 ogres in game? Because tokens are placed on the card, not on the figure, so both ogres got additional hp? And if any of them will die they both will lose this boost?

Only the master Ogre has Fleshmonger, not the minion.

Got my hands on the Crusade of the Forgotten. And there is the rule: "If you use Conversion Kit, remove heroes and monsters with the same names, as in this expansion, and return them to the box". So, it is the rebalance, and I'll try to stick to the new rules.

About ogre, I agree that this nerf is pretty big, but there are already pretty many monsters and heroes that you will never use, specially when you use the Conversion Kit.

Yes, if you choose to play with any of the components of Visions of Dawn in a given campaign, then by RAW you must use the lousy new Ogre, sadly. However, if you opt out of any given expansion at campaign onset you are exempt from its components.

I see your point. Thank you for the answer. It's a shame that all ogres doesn't have this fleshmonger ability, it would much better stuff.