It's funny, my buddy and I came up with almost that exact build coincidentally. Currently he's running with manglers and hot shots instead of HLCs though. Manglers fit with B better against most things than HLCs I think (phantoms being the exception).

He's rocking hot shots right now because the FCS works well there. If you get a shot one turn, but nothing the next, use the TL and blast em anyway! It also works to set up FCS for the following turn too. If you clear a ship one turn and are now lockless, hotshot whoever you plan to shoot next to get set for real damage.

I'm trying to get him to switch to prox mines though because with the versatility of that dial, being able to dump a prox on some poor arc-dodger's head is a very real possibility. But we've got another SC coming up this Sunday so he's gonna stick to the hotties since that's what he's been practicing with.

I think that is in the flightdeck perhaps? I think that is the squad you discussed there. So check the show notes for the time stamps on the Flightdeck.

I hope that helps

When are any of you on vassal. I've been trying to find someone to help me play my first online game for weeks now.

I watched the videos, and created squads. Also used the interface offline, but still a rookie.

I'll be on tonight looking for a game at about 8PM central. It's been a bit a few weeks since I've been on Vassal, but I'd be glad to help out.

I think that is in the flightdeck perhaps? I think that is the squad you discussed there. So check the show notes for the time stamps on the Flightdeck.

I hope that helps

I just checked. The Flight Deck section with IG88BD is obviously right in the start. The Outmaneuver talk is around 67:17.

I have the same name on Vassal, EvilEd209, and I am usually on pretty regally. I have had some family functions as of late that have kept me off but I am making my return!

Regarding that IG-BD Terminator squad. Do you find yourself missing Advanced Sensors all that much? My general impression is that by jumping around the board the way that IGs do, it can be problematic to dwell on a target multiple turns in a row. Advanced Sensor also gives you the boost->hard S-loop move that lets you drift sideways, which is pretty stylish (and useful). Of course, AS over FCS means someone loses an Autothrusters or gets their HLC downgraded. There's really not an obvious choice, which is great.

Regarding that IG-BD Terminator squad. Do you find yourself missing Advanced Sensors all that much? My general impression is that by jumping around the board the way that IGs do, it can be problematic to dwell on a target multiple turns in a row. Advanced Sensor also gives you the boost->hard S-loop move that lets you drift sideways, which is pretty stylish (and useful). Of course, AS over FCS means someone loses an Autothrusters or gets their HLC downgraded. There's really not an obvious choice, which is great.

No. I would much rather have FCS for my playstyle. The ship is already plenty maneuverable against the lower PS ships, it doesn't need Advanced Sensors. Against higher PS ships like Fel, they can react to your boost / loop shenanigans anyway, so I would rather have a Buzzsaw FCS HLC shot against Fel, and just spread my arcs a little more for the initial engagement to make sure that I catch him in my net somewhere.

Regarding that IG-BD Terminator squad. Do you find yourself missing Advanced Sensors all that much? My general impression is that by jumping around the board the way that IGs do, it can be problematic to dwell on a target multiple turns in a row. Advanced Sensor also gives you the boost->hard S-loop move that lets you drift sideways, which is pretty stylish (and useful). Of course, AS over FCS means someone loses an Autothrusters or gets their HLC downgraded. There's really not an obvious choice, which is great.

No. I would much rather have FCS for my playstyle. The ship is already plenty maneuverable against the lower PS ships, it doesn't need Advanced Sensors. Against higher PS ships like Fel, they can react to your boost / loop shenanigans anyway, so I would rather have a Buzzsaw FCS HLC shot against Fel, and just spread my arcs a little more for the initial engagement to make sure that I catch him in my net somewhere.

Yeah, I guess I wasn't thinking about stuff like Fel, where B's ability is going to go off almost every shot. That increases the value of FCS pretty substantially.

Really loving the show guys, and this was an outstanding episode!

Corran seems like such a powerful threat. I'm a bit surprised that FCS is the primary sensor upgrade that gets taken on him (macker has it at 90% FCS to 10% AdvSens in the last 30 days). Could you guys help me understand why? It may be as simple as 58 Dash made him a thing.

Advanced Sensors - When combined with PTL, I think this is the best upgrade for the E-Wing. 3 evade dice in front of only 5 health (8-9 points per health) means that an actionless E-Wing is a huge risk. AS protects you from that at the cost of forcing more judicious use of his double tap.

Sensor Jammer - After watching an IG-88 with Sensor Jammer save himself an obscene amount of damage from this card at a recent store championship, I'm rethinking it. Suddenly you have action-less defense, and can either bump Corran up to PS10 with VI instead of PTL, or focus your PTL on focus/lock. Perhaps the Agressor's success with SJ was just because of how that ship flies, but could it be worthwhile on Corran?

FCS dovetails perfectly with Corran Horn's ability. When you double-tap in the same round on the same target, you are guaranteed a Target Lock on the defender. Better yet, since it is at the end of the round, the defender is very likely to have spent all his tokens, so you are getting a 3 or 4 dice attack with Target Lock (and possibly focus) vs most likely unmodified defender green dice.

Advanced Sensors is always nice, and is probably the preferred loadout for Etahn if you want to take him. Advanced Sensors + PtL focus evade + green move = focus/evade, and no stress.

Sensor Jammer is a very mixed bag. Many times your opponent has focus and already rolled an eyeball on attack anyway, so it has zero effect. I think SJ works best in niche lists like Carnor Jax and Kagi with Sensor Jammer.

FCS dovetails perfectly with Corran Horn's ability. When you double-tap in the same round on the same target, you are guaranteed a Target Lock on the defender. Better yet, since it is at the end of the round, the defender is very likely to have spent all his tokens, so you are getting a 3 or 4 dice attack with Target Lock (and possibly focus) vs most likely unmodified defender green dice.

Advanced Sensors is always nice, and is probably the preferred loadout for Etahn if you want to take him. Advanced Sensors + PtL focus evade + green move = focus/evade, and no stress.

Sensor Jammer is a very mixed bag. Many times your opponent has focus and already rolled an eyeball on attack anyway, so it has zero effect. I think SJ works best in niche lists like Carnor Jax and Kagi with Sensor Jammer.

The combination of FCS and PTL is also very strong on Corran due to its effect on his durability. Between the two, he can have a TL, Focus and Evade available to him ever round. You basically have to focus on him early, because allowing him to survive to endgame means you probably won't have the firepower to kill him.

I have the same name on Vassal, EvilEd209, and I am usually on pretty regally. I have had some family functions as of late that have kept me off but I am making my return!

I should get on Vassal and see if I can have the privilege of playing his Royal Highness.

FCS dovetails perfectly with Corran Horn's ability. When you double-tap in the same round on the same target, you are guaranteed a Target Lock on the defender. Better yet, since it is at the end of the round, the defender is very likely to have spent all his tokens, so you are getting a 3 or 4 dice attack with Target Lock (and possibly focus) vs most likely unmodified defender green dice.

Advanced Sensors is always nice, and is probably the preferred loadout for Etahn if you want to take him. Advanced Sensors + PtL focus evade + green move = focus/evade, and no stress.

Sensor Jammer is a very mixed bag. Many times your opponent has focus and already rolled an eyeball on attack anyway, so it has zero effect. I think SJ works best in niche lists like Carnor Jax and Kagi with Sensor Jammer.

The combination of FCS and PTL is also very strong on Corran due to its effect on his durability. Between the two, he can have a TL, Focus and Evade available to him ever round. You basically have to focus on him early, because allowing him to survive to endgame means you probably won't have the firepower to kill him.

That's true, but I see Coran generally as the "what if I encounter a phantom" inclusion. So VI tends to be his starting point for most players. While I respect the power oof that combo, that's a 44 point E-wing with a very limited dial. That's the advantage of advanced sensors, you clear the stress before the move so you have your whole dial available again at the start of the next turn.

Honestly though, given the rise of control builds (at least here in WA), I'm scared to take PtL or advanced sensors at all right now. If you face the wrong list, that's 6 points you can't use.

Its the same reason I've stopped advocating those on IGs for the time being too. With only 2 ships, you've got to be consistently utilizing every precious point and FCS is much harder to counter.

The concept of awarding partial MOV points for damaged ships is a bad one. Would it seem reasonable to proponents that a basketball team should be awarded 1 point for hitting the backboard 'cause they 'nearly' scored?

A large part of why X-Wing is a great is the simplicity of the rules and depth of the resulting gameplay. I feel the podcast is getting mired in the mathwing side of things at the expense of discussing an excellent tactical and thematic game. The partial MOV idea seems to be a result of this way of thinking. From inside the mathwing bubble I can see how the partial MOV idea does make sense. Outside of that bubble it is counter intuative, counter thematic and overly complicated.

Don't get me wrong. I love the work done by Major Juggler and have spent considerable time looking over the Jousting value charts, for example. It is fantastic stuff but only one way of looking at a fraction of what the game actually is. 'Unlearn what you have learned' etc.

On the partial MoV, I don't think there is a right answer to it. It certainly is frustrating to come across a situation where you've outflown your opponent and the game is as good as yours. Only you've run out of time before you can finish off that big, fat whatever and you lose. It's hard to define, much less prove slow play so that's really not a road you want to go down.

So I can see the appeal of partial MoV but I err on the side of too complex as well. It also would solve the problem of obese ships, but it would also punish expensive arc-dodgers. Hit Soontir 35 point soontir once and you've killed a TIE fighter in MOV.

Interestingly, it would also push people towards hull and shield upgrades and away from pretty much any other mod. For instance, giving Soontir a shield upgrade instead of a stealth device, and a single hit would only award you 9 points instead of 12.

Instead of BBBBZ we'd see BBBB all with hull upgrades. Basically, cheap ships, especially durable ones would be all the rage. Then people would be bitching about wave 3 being back.

Anyway, I think it's probably best to just resign ourselves to the fact that there isn't a perfect system, and whatever system they choose will only select a new set of powerful squads, rather than level the playing field.

The concept of awarding partial MOV points for damaged ships is a bad one. Would it seem reasonable to proponents that a basketball team should be awarded 1 point for hitting the backboard 'cause they 'nearly' scored?

That exact point was actually brought up in the episode #19 thread. To quote myself:

So I can see the appeal of partial MoV but I err on the side of too complex as well. It also would solve the problem of obese ships, but it would also punish expensive arc-dodgers. Hit Soontir 35 point soontir once and you've killed a TIE fighter in MOV.

I'm actually very OK with that, considering that it is easier to kill a TIE than it is to get a single hit on Soontir. I think that is actually much more fair than the current system.

I have the same name on Vassal, EvilEd209, and I am usually on pretty regally. I have had some family functions as of late that have kept me off but I am making my return!

I should get on Vassal and see if I can have the privilege of playing his Royal Highness.

I am in no way X-Wing Royalty, believe me... but I would love to play you some time! If you see me online some night, IM me and we'll get a game on!

I have the same name on Vassal, EvilEd209, and I am usually on pretty regally. I have had some family functions as of late that have kept me off but I am making my return!

I should get on Vassal and see if I can have the privilege of playing his Royal Highness.

I am in no way X-Wing Royalty, believe me... but I would love to play you some time! If you see me online some night, IM me and we'll get a game on!

Hey, you have to play that up.

For the sake of the podcast, of course.

We can have a coronation ceremony next episode.

OK, that's funny!

Original analogy was going to be 'football' and 'hitting the crossbar' (which works much better) but I decided to flip it in case the point was lost crossing the Atlantic.

Guess that backfired.

OK, that's funny!

Original analogy was going to be 'football' and 'hitting the crossbar' (which works much better) but I decided to flip it in case the point was lost crossing the Atlantic.

Guess that backfired.

Well, it is pretty hard to come up with a reasonable sports analogy to X-wing. You need a low-scoring game that also has a concept of separate "field positions" for each team, that is cumulative and can only progress one way.

Maybe like racing Womp Rats. That's the best I've got.

OK, that's funny!

Original analogy was going to be 'football' and 'hitting the crossbar' (which works much better) but I decided to flip it in case the point was lost crossing the Atlantic.

Guess that backfired.

There are crossbars in both footballs that can lead to disappointingly close (but no cigar) goals. So whichever side of the Atlantic you're on, the other side gets it