Hello folks,

I am completly new to this rpg. Just read a bit of the rules and trying to the some players.

But after reading throught the equipment I wondered about the red-dot laser sight weapon upgrade. I mean, to properly use the upgrade you should be able to see the red spot at your enemy.

So is there a limited range where you can use it? A range after which you do not receive the +10 bonus any longer?

Or does this belong to the house rules section?

Cheers, TechVoid

In the RAW there's no range limit. I suspect that it might not actually be a laser-pointer but a red-dot reflex sight.

http://www.airsoftretreat.com/images/reviews/TSD%20MP5N/5.jpg

That said, it is called a laser sight, so it'd be reasonable to assume that it is a pointer and houserule that it's ineffective at anything over long (or perhaps even normal) range. There's also the chance of the target spotting the red-dot if the shooter spends too long aiming.

That would explain a lot.

Thank you!

If you assume it's a Laser sight than it's still effective regardless of range. The zero will be off the further away or closer the target is from you. You could say that it's effective at the max range of the gun, but loses a bit of accuracy the further away the shot. You could zero it at a longer range than the gun can shoot, but lose some of the accuracy thye closer the target.

I think it was Necromunda (although it might have been something else) that had a "Spot The Dot" rule for laser sights.

And since the Imperium's war factories create laser weaponry capable of beheading or immolating a man with a single well-placed shot, I would not be surprised to learn that their targeting lasers happen to have very, very long ranges.

I don't think the range of the laser itself is the issue, but whether the shooter can see his own laser flickering across the target or not.

Ah. Gotcha. I don't have an answer for that then.

Well I'm still looking for the spotting/hearing distance rules that seem to have been omitted. We get silencers which halve the distance all gunshots can be heard... but we aren't told how far away they can be heard in the first place.

I think they leave that down the the GM. Hearing a handcannon being fired a block away would probably be made at +20 or so. Hearing a single hunting rifle shot from the middle of the crowd might be -10. A silencer just makes those checks more difficult.

Laser sights should also have other drawbacks, such as air conditions(smoke, fog, rain) and target defensives measures such as laser detectors(although they are very rare in DH, there no reason they can't exist)

The rarity of technology becomes a non-issue when dealing with anything on Adeptus Mechanicus territory. I imagine the number of techno-arcane tricks they'd have up their sleeve would be a real shock to most groups. Good points about visibility, too.

If it was a standered laser sight it wouldn't help you with aiming, it'd be used for firing from the hip. Also, red dot sight another name for reflex sight.

The limit of range and visibility in a scifi setting can be nullified with bionics and technology improvements. The problem is wether prolonging the time that the dot is on a target would make it easier for them to dodge.

It would also be well considered that all las and laser technologies should have damage and/or range modifiers added for atmospheric conditions. (ie water vapor, smoke, rain, etc.)

Headhanger said:

That was indeed necromunda.

You got a +1 to hit when you used it but the target got a roll to dodge it after you had taken your shot.

Action_Carl said:

This is interesting. Does this mean that TV shows and films that show snipers (i.e. not shooting from the hip) using red dot sights are actually bunk?

Cardinalsin said:

I definitly don't know much about real world snippers and all that, but I don't think any snapper would use a laser site. They usualy want to get their shot off without risking the target knowing they've been targeted in most casses I can think of, so, ya, it probably is just more Movie Magic... like just about everything else you see on television or the movies ;-)

Cardinalsin said:

The only laser a sniper would use isnt visible to the human eye, and is just used for distance. A sniper would always be aiming with his sight anyway, so the red dot would be useless to him, it might actually be a hindrance, because you adjust your sight for wind and distance, and the laser wouldnt be affected by that. And like graver said, it would give away your position, so its only used like that in TV and movies

There are laser sights that are used on other guns, but they tend only to help with low light aiming, or if you are firing one handed or at an odd angle (where you cant reliably use the ironsight) which includes hip shooting. They have also found that red dot sights are very hard to see in daylight, so quite a few have started switching to green, that has better visiblity.

There are also sights that use infrared light, and can only be seen with night vision.

But yeah, a red dot sight is also called a reflex scope, and is actually a gun sight that uses a red dot instead of a crosshair.

It sounds as though a good house rule would be for the red dot sight to provide a bonus only on an unaimed shot. On an aimed shot it would not only not provide a bonus, but give a +10 to dodge attempts due to the lingering red dot.

What I think we have been trying to say is that a red dot laser sight isnt a laser pointer, its one of these

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflex_sight

Which has a red dot on the sight instead of a crosshair

I blame Hollywood for this confusion. The guns that have laser pointers aren't using 'sights' - its usually an addition added underneath the barrel. In this case the wording is clearly specifying that its a scope.

That being said, I think its clear that as there are no 'laser scopes' (not saying there couldn't be in 40k), it is very easy to understand they meant it as a reflex sight like the military uses on their rifles.

Noone competant would combine a scope and a laser at the same time. Why? Simple ballistics. Bullets drop as they travel, so lasers are useful at only short ranges regardless of how far you can see it, except on actual las weapons. Considering the sight is not limited to just las weapons, it follows that the 'red-dot sight' is the real identifier, and that the 'laser' is a bit of a misnomer and nod to pop culture references rather than actually being something concrete.

Well todays new military "laser" sights are about 75 yard in daylight anywhere up to 250 in the dusk/night time.