Hi !

I am the GM of a very high XP group (around 1000xp), whom I like to challenge in new and exciting ways. Obviously, I want them to both feel ambiguously powerful and yet still vulnerable, and this has been my philosophy since the start. I like seeing their horrified eye stares when they are aboard their freighter and detect the looming triangular silhouette of an Imperial capital ship distant on the radars, the fridge logic seeping in that the cold void of space offers little respite when your ship has scattered back into parts... that individual power is not going to make you any less than sweet peas in a tin can if you ever get caught in space...

Anyhow, next week I'm having a ground based encounter with Imperials. I'll be using vehicles in personal combat for the first time (an AT-ST and swoop bikes to start with), as well as fortified positions to add challenge. It is going to be a set piece in our campaign, spanning 3-4 encounters and I want it to be as memorable as possible, with the players having to think fast on their feet and come up with creative solutions rather than simply wade in, guns blazing with Autofire madness/Move power insanity, feeling invincible and unthreatened. I want them to feel both powerful and yet still vulnerable.

The point is, I want to have a solid ground encounter, reminiscent of a smaller scale Battle of Endor, and I want to spice things up a bit.

The second and third encounters are my focus, at the moment. Here's my initial plan:

Encounter #2: Patrol

1x AT-ST

10x swoops (rivals) (one/two escapes to bring news to base camp)

Location: deep in a jungle forest, the PCs are attacked by patrolling scouts; they may be able to use the AT-ST/swoops later on if they don't destroy them

Encounter #3: Imperial outpost

3x AT-ST

8x Lieutenant rivals giving maneuvers and Boosts to troopers (Tricked out HBR, AugSB + BanthaEye)

4x Stromtrooper minion groups of SIX (cccddb) (Blaster Rifles, standard issue 8x) Stromtrooper minion groups of FIVE gunners (cccdb) (E-Web HRB)

1x Captain in Sentinel-class (he has an escape plan)

Location: an outpost surrounded with a garrison providing good cover, several gun emplacements, etc. the captain leading the defense would remain in the back and depart if things go sour, heading for orbit, where another encounter (with a Vigil-class corvette) may take place if the players wish...

For those worrying, the conversion scale between planetary and vehicle damage is 5-to-1, not 10-to-1. So those AT-STs are not completely invulnerable, and a PC could possibly take one hit and still stand in one piece.

Apart from general tips on how to handle such encounter, I was curious about the possibility of using squad rules from the AoR GM Kit make those troopers less squishy. My worry is that when faces with an army like this, the PCs will be very tempted to get rid of the minion groups first, and then focus on the vehicles, which is not super cinematic. I'd like to be able to use normal stormtrooper squads and make them scary in their own rights while using simple tactics taken from the rulebooks, thus without entering house-rule territory.

I've read the Squad and Squadron rules, and found them to my linking, but I have a few questions, both rule-related and advice:

• Legality: Can the minions of a squad be allowed to act in place of the leader, while still acting as the "meat shield"? For example, a Stormtrooper Lieutenant foregoing his action and instead directing the 6 minions of his squad to shoot at a target?
• The obvious use for this is Squad Formations, allowing for tactics like the Skirmish squad formation, which adds +1 to the Advantage cost of activating Autofire or Blast. Very useful to prolong the life expectancy of troopers on a battlefield.
• Legality: If the above is not backed by RAW, what would be the best way to emulate it without going into house-rule territory? (I wouldn't ask that question if I thought house ruling was the only option.) I'm thinking that if squad members can't shoot on the same round they act as meatshield, I could have a Stormtrooper Lieutenant attack, dismiss his squad on his turn as an incidental, give them an extra move action, have part of the minions form into an attack group, acting right after the Lt's Initiative slot, then use the other minions to use their round to form a "new" squad afterwards (costing two maneuvers). A kind of "leapfrogging" squad work-around to be able to get the defensive bonuses and the minion group's skill bonus.
• Can squads of minions be formed by other minions? Like having minion gunners protect an E-Web emplacement by forming a minion group around a minion "lead gunning team"?

I know this may sound convoluted (why not just house rule it? It's my game after all), and I don't always adhere to RAW so strongly, but since I want to demonstrate the squad rules, and I eventually plan on the PCs using them with their own troops in the longer term, I want to get the rules right and see how far they go. It's a bit of a tutorial for battle tactics and squad rules. I also want them to understand that soldiers are not like warriors: their strength is not solely in their raw stats, it's in their teamwork.

Also, lastly, about ordnance and Blast on a battlefield. I'm facing a peculiar issue:

• If one attacks a large area with a planetary scale Blast weapon, large range explosives or even a missile with many many characters engaged together, which defensive dice pool do you use to go against the Blast weapon's check? I know of the strange "the grenade didn't work" problem, when the Blast quality fails to activate against an adversary, despite there being little space to run from the explosion, or reason the blast didn't occur, but this is even more extreme: when triggering the Blast quality of a spaceship (say, a Concussion missile shot on the ground), everything in Close range is affected on the planetary scale; thus an entire battleground can be hit at once. Thus, how do you deal with that? Do you even roll a dice pool? If yes, against who? Would you roll more than one?

Enough questions, and thanks in advance for all your excellent advice!

I want to talk about all this, but for now...

Also, lastly, about ordnance and Blast on a battlefield. I'm facing a peculiar issue:

• If one attacks a large area with a planetary scale Blast weapon, large range explosives or even a missile with many many characters engaged together, which defensive dice pool do you use to go against the Blast weapon's check? I know of the strange "the grenade didn't work" problem, when the Blast quality fails to activate against an adversary, despite there being little space to run from the explosion, or reason the blast didn't occur, but this is even more extreme: when triggering the Blast quality of a spaceship (say, a Concussion missile shot on the ground), everything in Close range is affected on the planetary scale; thus an entire battleground can be hit at once. Thus, how do you deal with that? Do you even roll a dice pool? If yes, against who? Would you roll more than one?

I actually think this is easier to explain then grenades tbh. If you're in any kind of terrain at all you can do neat stuff where the missile hits a nearby tree or building and is a "near miss" with the shrapnel and debris causing damage to the original target. It's hard to argue that while the missile hit the building, that flying dumpster did damage, if only to the guy it landed on, while bouncing over the two dudes next to him. Or you can have the missile be a dud... that still hit.

Also, unless you know of something I don't, or have a house rule, you do have an error. Even a concussion missile Blast is Engaged only. Remember engaged is a subset of short, but it's not the old D&D "adjacent" so it's actually pretty big.

Not 100% sure what happens to a squad targeted by a blast weapon though. Offhand I'd expect it to be.... not good for the squad...

You're right, I didn't read the Blast radius of missiles correctly. I assumed that since Blast affected everything "Engaged" at personal range (the shortest range band) it would affect everything in "Close" range at the planetary scale, which translated to just over Extreme range (basically an entire base). No wonder I was confused on how to apply it!

A sidebar in the book says: Against ground targets, starship blast weapons hit their primary target and every additional target within short range (at personal scale), instead of just every target engaged with the original target. [...] This can also be one of the rare cases where it makes narrative sense that a starship weapon with Blast, such as a proton torpedo, would hit multiple vehicles at once.

Now, a roughly 12 meter radius is much, much more manageable.

Good catch! What's the page number that's on?

One sidebar on page 224, the other from page 225, of the EotE CRB.

Coowell!

now...

• Legality: Can the minions of a squad be allowed to act in place of the leader, while still acting as the "meat shield"? For example, a Stormtrooper Lieutenant foregoing his action and instead directing the 6 minions of his squad to shoot at a target?

Tough call. Offhand I'd assume no simply because the final option on 1-2 says you spend a triumph to allow your minions to take an attack.

In the case of a combat capable character like the Stormtrooper Lt. having him direct the fight would actually potentially result in a better attack roll then he'd otherwise have...

On the other hand since that Triumph doesn't seem to be specified as needing to be generated by an attack, a politico making a Scathing Tirade, a Commander making a Field Commander check, a Squadron leader making a piloting check, or any number of other things would allow you to generate a Triumph to make it happen... so there's that.

.....so a Pilot with Master Pilot leading a squadron could conceivably kick out 3 attacks in a single turn... that would actually help explain a few things....

Legality: If the above is not backed by RAW, what would be the best way to emulate it without going into house-rule territory? (I wouldn't ask that question if I thought house ruling was the only option.) I'm thinking that if squad members can't shoot on the same round they act as meatshield, I could have a Stormtrooper Lieutenant attack, dismiss his squad on his turn as an incidental, give them an extra move action, have part of the minions form into an attack group, acting right after the Lt's Initiative slot, then use the other minions to use their round to form a "new" squad afterwards (costing two maneuvers). A kind of "leapfrogging" squad work-around to be able to get the defensive bonuses and the minion group's skill bonus.

Well see above for one. So a typical "squad attack" would probably see the Lt. making a check (probably an attack of his own, but it could be anything else requiring a roll) and spending a triumph to allow the squad to make a separate free attack as well.

If however you want to kick out lots of attacks it might make more sense to go more conventional, Stat the Lt. by taking a Sgt. rejiggering his equipment a little, and adding Imperial Valor and perhaps Overwhelming Fire. If you wanted to get fancy you could add something akin to Uncanny Reactions or Situational Awareness, or perhaps an "Improved Tactical Direction" that adds 2 Boost and/or works on Rivals as well as minions....

Can squads of minions be formed by other minions? Like having minion gunners protect an E-Web emplacement by forming a minion group around a minion "lead gunning team"?

So like... say 2 Imperial Army Soldier in a minion group manning an E-web, squadding up with up to 11 engaged minion Imperial Army Soldiers so that they players have to meatgrind through the other soldiers before they can engage the gun team?

I suppose so, but I think you're also pushing the limits of sanity and suspension of disbelief here.

I think what would make more sense, be more flexible, AND still render similar results would be:

Make the typical Gunnery team composed of a Gunnery Sgt. (Rival) and 1-3 Troopers (Minions, usually grouped) with the Sgt. typically manning the gun and Squadding with the gunnery team. That would allow for "Dig in" and other squad maneuvers and limited gunnery team meat shielding when they start taking fire without changing the skill dice of the gun.

Toss in a portable shield generator or place the gun in hard cover (2 Ranged defense) which would stack with Dig in for 3 Defense.

If you want to be an A-hole GM, give the Gunny the Covering Fire ability for a cover bonus to any supporting infantry.

If you want to be a complete A-hole GM, put two of these gun positions within Short Range of each other (4 ranged Defense! LOL)

If you want to be a total and complete A-hole GM have the Gunny Squad up with a supporting infantry squad instead of his gun team and work his way back for maximized meatshielding...

EDIT: PS: If you TPK and get punched in the face, I'm not responsible.

I tend to think that interspersing extremely dangerous encounters from time to time is beneficial for immersion and dramatic tension. Players who feel invulnerable and gun bunny tend, in my experience, to stop taking in world threats seriously, they just don't seem to "care" anymore, and this ends up ruining their own enjoyment. So, yes, I'm going to use your ideas, that's the crux of it.

The party is composed of five 1000xp players and a NPC assassin droid follower. One of the PCs has 8 yellow dice from his ranks in True Aim and other crazy stuff, and he carries an E-Web using Burly from the Heavy specialization. Oh, and he has a fraggin' personal stealth field, optical camouflage armor and his Stealth skill is stratospheric. I'm not at all afraid to put his skills to the test by making him the dedicated artillery platform of the encounter. Other PCs include a 12 Soak / 30 WT / 30 ST defensive-focused force user with ranks in Reflect (the "Tank"), a Misdirect using dark jedi (can make herself unseen by Presence x 2 for each force pip, and she has 6 Presence and Force Rating 5), a mastermind scientist (who has the Assassin droid follower) and a smuggler/slicer/mechanic/pilot droid.

If all goes well, and they plan in advance, they could very well win. But I want their first *real* (military) encounter with the Empire to be memorable, and to instill fear of force rather than force itself! (plus force itself, on top! just in case) If I fail, and they win too easily, they may start to ridicule the universe and it will break their suspension of disbelief; "why is the Galaxy afraid of these weak Imperial troops?", they will start to wonder. And I don't want to have to point the 150 guns of an ISD in their direction to have them figure out, I'd much rather start small with a feel of an Empire filled with clever and ruthless officers and troopers who can use tactics and teamwork to overwhelm their foes.

Sounds like a typical Rifts campaign...

Seriously though, it sounds like you're proving some power level testing I did a while back. My result had PCs hitting the "done" level around +500-700XP unless they were especially broadly built. So at +1000XP I would agree you probably don't need to pull any punches, especially with the kind of builds you're talking about. At that point I'd probably start lobbing Chrysalis Rancors and Palpy-clones at them.

Results from tonight's game:

They were scared, as expected, by the imperial garrison. They were so scared in fact, that instead of facing them, they decided to use the riskiest and most convoluted tactic they had in store: Mesonics Proton Grenades. Explosives, from Dangerous Covenants. Using 8 charges, for a total of 7 purple and 1 red (I did flip a Destiny to upgrade a die), they managed to score enough successes and advantages to get the explosives to work with no backfire. The team's pilot, using the fastest speed he could obtain, and with the player's making very hard calculations for the bomb's lauch vector, managed to throw the explosives and detonate them at the right height. The ship was supposed to be attacked while flying overhead, but again, my crafty players disabled the only AA-guns the Imperials had.

Result: my PCs nuked the entire garrison, everything in its neighborhood, creating a 150+ damage sphere of destruction of Extreme radius. The earth shook as they annihilated every Imperial soldier on the field, with only the Sentinel landing craft making it out in one piece (after taking a huge amount of hull damage). Had the PCs not used Bad Motivator, I was going to make the shuttle chase them, to no avail.

Once again, an epic game. 38th session for the PCs involved.