More Rule Clarifications

Yay! Another Rule Clarification thread. Was playing a game the other day and some of these issues came up, so I wanted to get them checked out.

1) Aura. Had some fun with Shiver in my last game (who picked up a Bottle Imp, too!), which of course spawned a ton of Aura-related questions.

a) Aura inflicts damage each time you move into a space that is Aura-ed, yes? i.e., if I move adjacent to Shiver, my baddie takes four wounds. If I then move AGAIN, such that I'm still adjacent to Shiver, I take ANOTHER four wounds, yes? The OL I was playing with thought otherwise (i.e., he interpreted it that since his monster was already inside the Aura, he did not take extra damage for moving around within the aura - similar to pits. Damage was only dealt when you moved into aura from a non-aura location). I advocated for the former, as it was obviously more advantageous to me. But I'd like some official clarification on this. (the specific situation was that I put a bottle imp in a 2-space-wide corridor, thus forcing all monsters chasing after me to take three damage whilst running through it. The OL argued that it should only do 1 damage to each baddie, since they only "enter" the Aura once).

b) Large monsters. Some hazard rules indicate that Large Monsters are only affected if the entirety of them reside in the hazard (i.e., Pits, Ice, et cetera). I'm assuming this is NOT the case with Aura, since, aside from certain Bottle Imp placements, they wouldn't be able to get all the way inside of it. Can someone verify? i.e., any part of the monster can reside in the Aura in order to take damage. Secondly, when a Large Baddie moves next a person with Aura, does he take the damage for every space he occupies (I'm assuming no? Again need more official word), or will he only take damage as if he were only in one square?

c) Not moving. If a baddie starts his turn inside an Aura, and doesn't move OUT of it by the end of his turn, does he take damage? (According to FFG's FAQ, players take damage in this way from monsters' auras, so I just wanted to check that it was the same the other way around). Specifically, in my last game, Shiver and a Naga were battling to the death. The Naga had herself backed up into a corner and could easily hit Shiver with her magic attack from anywhere in the room. Knowing I couldn't protect Shiver from the Naga's attacks anyways, I simply ran right next to the Naga, which would force it to move out of the corner lest it wanted to get hit by 'Aura'. Oh ho! Shiver was even more clever -- he positioned himself such that it prevented the Naga from moving at all, since the Naga was so large and couldn't get around Shiver! Therefore, I thought, boom, you're going to HAVE to take that damage, since you can't move away from my Aura. However, the OL argued that since the Naga didn't herself walk into Aura, she shouldn't take the damage at the end of the turn. We only had the base rules with us and not the FaQ, so couldn't look up this tidbit (which I will surely point out to him in the next game), but I just want to verify I'm interpreting this correctly. Thank you!

d) What happens if a monster is spawned on top of Aura? It didn't "move" into the space, but it "appeared" there. (i.e., if the overlord is forced to spawn on top of a bottle imp because there's no where else to spawn).

e) If Shiver is turned into a monkey, does he still have Aura 4 while in Monkey form? OL said no, I said yes. Both of us were obviously biased, so what's the official word on this?

2) Activating Glyphs

I'm aware that monsters are allowed to chill on inactivated glyphs, thus required them to be killed before getting to the glyph. One of the OLs who I play with likes to rest particularly hard-to-kill baddies on inactivated glyphs. Heck, I do the same, it's a good way of stopping heroes from simply grabbing the Glyph conquest right away and continuing on to the next area. Make 'em fight for the glyphs and treasure to slow the heroes down.

To counteract this strategy, however, I'm considering bringing Runewitch Astarra into the next game. Thus, I want to clarify what happens beforehand: If a monster is chilling on an unactivated glyph when Astarra walks within six spaces of it, first, does it activate? and second, what happens to the monster chilling on top of it if/when it does? (since the rules state monsters cannot reside on activated glyphs). Does it move to the closest legal space for it to occupy? What if there are none? (i.e., it's a large monster in a corridor and there are smaller monsters taking up all other locations the large guy could fit?). How have you dealt with this situation?

The same situation could also potentially arise with a hero's Acrobat ability. If I run through the baddies to activate the glyph and port back into town, then the monster who was sitting on the glyph is now sitting on an activated glyph. What happens to it?

3) Spending Fatigue and Grapple/Web

a) Oftentimes I'll spend a fatigue to chug a potion. However, I'm blurry with how the mechanics are actually working here. Is it:

i) Spend a fatigue to get a movement point which can be spent to chug a potion.

or

ii) Spend a fatigue in order to chug a potion.

Both Grapple and Web prevent the spending of movement points, and I'd like to clarify if I can or cannot drink a potion whilst Grappled or Webbed by spending fatigue to do so.

Thanks guys!

1. a. Aura inflicts damage for every space moved, not just the first space. It also inflicts damage if you start your turn within an affected space and don't move (thus you cannot avoid damage by never moving).

However, technically , Aura doesn't affect enemies in the same space as yourself, only in adjacent spaces. Monsters can stand directly on top of the bottle imp without taking damage, and thus can get past the bottle imp in a corridor suffering only 2 wounds. It's weird, and I don't like it, but it's pretty clear in the FAQ:

Q: If a flying monster passes through a hero that has Holy Aura, does the monster suffer a wound for the space it “shares” with the hero?
A: No.

b) Aura inflicts damage each time a movement results in being in an affected space. Thus, large monsters are affected if any space they occupy is adjacent to an enemy with Aura , but only suffer the damage once per move, regardless of the number of spaces they occupy (though they might take damage from two non-overlapping Auras on the same move if they intersect both).

c) Yes, damage is taken if you start within an Aura and don't move.

d) Interesting question. As far as I can tell, the monster wouldn't take damage when spawned, but would take damage during its activation if it didn't move. And, as noted above, the bottle imp doesn't actually harm monsters in its own space, just adjacent spaces.

e) I see nothing in the rules for the monkey transformation that would remove this ability, and monkeys have been confirmed (FAQ p.4) to still have skills and abilities if they can use them without attacking or declaring an action (e.g. Acrobat, Telekinesis), so I definitely think monkey-Shiver would still project Aura 4 (during the overlord's turn).

2. The glyph is activated as normal, and the monster must move off on the first turn that it can legally do so (see FAQ p.5).

3. Drinking a potion costs a movement point. If you are webbed or grappled, you can spend fatigue to gain movement points, but you cannot spend the movement points, and thus cannot drink potions.

The only ways you can spend fatigue (without a card that says otherwise, such as Knight or Ghost Armor) are to gain movement points or to add power dice to an attack (or upgrade power dice in RtL).

We can always rely on Antistone for rule clarifications. Awesome, thank you! (and thanks for citing where to find various rulings as well!)

It is much appreciated.

Are there any rules indications for 1c/d (damage after not moving)? I know this is valid for damage dealing props and obstacles, but for Aura?

Page 7 of the F.A.Q:

Q: What happens if you are on a lava space at the beginning of your turn and you don’t move?

A: If you begin your turn on a damaging effect, such as lava or a monster’s aura , and do not move off of it, you are damaged by it at the end of your turn.

Ah, but Shiver and the Bottle Imp are no monsters

Lava and monsters' auras are only examples of damaging effects, not an all-inclusive list. By logical extension any aura effect would fall under the same category and rule.

Parathion said:

Abilities behave the same whether they're on a Monster or a Hero. It effects the "Enemy", and "Enemy" in this sense is perception based. Heroes are enemies to Monsters, and Monsters are enemies to Heroes.

Furthermore, it is not specified anywhere that any abilities work differently when applied to Monsters than when applied to Heroes, and if the intention was that they worked differently, I'd imagine this would be more clearly presented, so the logical conclusion from the printed ruling in the FAQ is that, yes, Aura works the same way when it's a Monster walking through a Hero's Aura as it does when a Hero walks through a Monster's aura.

Aura is Aura.

Just like Reach is Reach: i.e., Lord Hawthorne has Reach, as do Giants. They both behave exactly the same way.

Just like Ghost is Ghost: i.e., Zyla has Ghost, as do Shades. They both behave exactly the same way.

Why should Aura behave any differently? Shiver has Aura, as do hellhounds. They both behave exactly the same way.

Actually, there are a couple of abilities that are worded to only affect heroes, but they're abilities where affecting monsters wouldn't make sense. Frost , for example.

The real answer is what Lord Foul said: the ruling says "a damaging effect, such as ". That means that the listed effects are examples and all similar effects are included by default.

Antistone said:

With regards to the above: Let's say I've got a monster, "Monster A", on an unactivated glyph. That monster is surrounded by a bunch of other monsters in some corridor such that I cannot move 'Monster A' off of the glyph without moving the other Monsters away, since Monster A has a low speed.

On the heroes' turn, they manage to activate the glyph while I'm still standing on it.

Thus, on my (the OL's) turn:

1) If I activate 'Monster A' first, it does not have enough speed to move off of the glyph to another space. It remains where it is.

2) If I activate the other Monsters first, however, I can move them away, and then I can activate 'Monster A' in order to move it off of the glyph.

Do I need to try to attain a situation in which I can legally move this Monster away, or can I choose to activate 'Monster A' first, in order to keep him on the glyph (since he cannot legally move away at the time of his activation), or MUST I activate my OTHER Monsters first, in order to allow 'Monster A' to move off of the glyph?

If you're going to go by a strict reading, I think it's #1, you can deliberately use your other monsters to trap a monster on top of the glyph and lock the heroes out. I'm not terribly concerned by that, though, as I think that's rather unlikely to come up much in actual play; monsters tend to die very fast, and the onus is already on the heroes not to let the game stall out.

it sounds like you're playing your OL role rather well, rather than catering to rule-hounds' interests of "legal" timing issues. I say, if your party goes for it, play that song and dance all you want. However, if you find yourself up against frustrated players, they did "technically" activate that glyph. I would say a hardcore rule guru would go for the spawn-related rule where you just lose your extra paid-for monster if it doesn't fit (again, legally) on the board. But if it keeps the fun going, do it. Don't get too bogged down with the ins-and-outs to lose the fun.

With the exception of Runewitch Astarra, there isn't a way for the Heroes to activate an unactivated glyph unless they kill the monster standing on it.

So if she activates it, and there is no where for your monster to go then it stays there. Nothing says you must under all circumstances move it off, you move if off if you are able to.

Big Remy said:

Wouldn't someone with Acrobat (can run through monsters) be able to do it as well?

In any case, the situation of being unable to move the monster away is likely a rare one, but I appreciate the confirmation on this ruling!

iConjuro said:

Yes.

Confirmation:
GLoAQ
Acrobat
A) Can a Hero with Acrobat activate Glyphs, or take treasures (gold, keys) from under a creature that is occupying the same square as the item.
B) Can a Hero with Acrobat open a door in which both spaces in front of the door are occupied by creatures, as long as he does not end his turn in one of those spaces?

A) Yes and B) yes and b1) yes. If this causes a hero to become paralyzed or something due to a trap, simply have the Overlord move the hero to the nearest empty space of the overlord's choice.

Oh yeah, totally forgot about Acrobat.

Big Remy said:

... and Fly.

Lord Foul said:

I hate (or have?) to contradict a little here. Flying figures can end their movement on or fly over a damaging effect without being harmed (basic rules) but are still affected by Aura (or does anyone suggest that a flyer isn´t harmed on an Aura space if it happened to be his final position?).

How would you handle a flyer that doesn´t move off a damaging effect or an Aura space?

That clearly indicates that the two (damage dealing props and Aura) are not 100% identical. Thus the logical extension of the FAQ answer smells a little faulty.

Of course I can see your logic and it seems to be like just another not-well-thought-out example of a FAQ answer.

In addition, the FAQ answer is clearly related to a hero figure, indicated by the use of "turn" - which a monster simply doesn´t have. But that´s just my strict reading

Parathion said:

This, I don't know off the top of my head and would need to look up. As such I'll second the request for confirmation: Are flyers affected by Aura?

Parathion said:

This actually a valid point.

Monsters have Activations, while Overlords have Turns. If a Monster is sitting inside an Aura and doesn't move during its activation, does it take the damage immediately after his activation, or does he take damage at the end of the Overlord's turn? (or, as Parathion suggests, neither - since Monsters don't have Turns).

Obviously if it's at the end of the Overlord's turn, then I can use my other monsters to kill the Aura emitting figure before its damage can affect the Monster who cannot move away from it.

On the other hand, if it's at the end of a Monster's activation, I could choose NOT to activate that monster within the Aura, and just not take that damage.

I'm inclined to argue that the damage would take effect at the end of the Overlord's turn, if any monsters who started his turn in the Aura still reside inside of it. However, I really have no way to cite this claim --> it just makes the most sense in my mind. Thoughts?

I'm not sure if this is an alternate wording that I actually read somewhere else, or just how I conceptualized that answer, but I believe the intention is that a figure that doesn't move is damaged at the end of its turn as if it had just entered the space it occupies. Thus, the figure is still immune to any damaging effects it would normally be immune to, but you can't stand in the middle of a deadly hazard and remain safe by keeping perfectly still. (Standing in a pit doesn't cause additional damage because entering a pit space from a pit space doesn't cause damage.)

Regarding monsters and turns vs. activations, the rules do a poor job with that terminology all over the place. Technically, hero figures don't have turns either, hero players do (the rulebook specifically refers to them as hero player turns, not just hero turns), so you just have to decide whether you're going to read "figure's turn" as "figure's activation" or "figure's owner's turn". I prefer activation, as I think it's more conceptually clean and logistically easier, and there's one passage (in the Stun rules) that suggests to me that was the intent, but if you want to go by the owner's turn I don't have a solid RAW argument against that.

Antistone said:

Well, it´s better not the hero player that is meant, because the question is related to being on a lava space - which won´t do a player any good

iConjuro said:

As far as I'm aware, yes, unless they are soaring at the time.