So, I got roped into a tournament game of Star Trek Attack Wing yesterday using a borrowed ship, a booster, and having bought the Defiant on a whim. The rules are very similar to X-wing, but they have a key difference when it comes to ordnance. In Attack Wing, when you shoot your photon torpedoes (essentially the same thing as proton torpedoes) you don't discard the card, you just "disable" it. Then, you have to use your action to re-enable it. So, for most ships, this is a two-turn cool down on the ordnance. You have to spend your lock and disable the weapon, and then re-enable the weapon and acquire a new lock, but the ordnance itself doesn't get discarded. This gives a reasonable cool-down, while permitting the card to be much more valuable because you can continue to re-use it. Given that X-wings carry something like 10 proton torpedoes and Y-wings and B-wings 12, with 12 concussion missiles for A-wings, this seems like it fits best with how ordnance was intended, and it wouldn't take any major new cards, just a quick change in errata or FAQ.

Seems like a good, simple fix.

But ... how to get that into the game without errata, since the cards read "discard"? Do new torpedoes, missiles, and bombs need to be introduced with this mechanic?

(You can get there with an astromech that provides this ability ... but then you're using an astromech slot even if the 'mech is free, and it doesn't help non-'mech ships.)

In X-wing, some ships do not live long enough to warrant spending an action to re-enable the upgrade.

A major problem is the inability of low-PS pilots to acquire the required TL. Weapons being single use only is a minor detail

In X-wing, some ships do not live long enough to warrant spending an action to re-enable the upgrade.

A major problem is the inability of low-PS pilots to acquire the required TL. Weapons being single use only is a minor detail

STAW has the same difficulty regarding low-PS pilots and target lock, and the ships aren't necessarily more durable. However, I've always advocated for TL being something that can be done at any range, but that's a whole other ball of wax.

In X-wing, some ships do not live long enough to warrant spending an action to re-enable the upgrade.

A major problem is the inability of low-PS pilots to acquire the required TL. Weapons being single use only is a minor detail

Exactly - it's the poor movement and action economy of ordnance that's the real problem - it can take several turns to get a good firing solution (i.e correct range, TL and Focus) with a missile or torp, and your potentially sacrificing more useful moves and actions to get there.

Why go through all that when you can just take a focus and use your primary each turn - it's far more efficient.

Adding more shots just adds to the action-movement burden, it doesn't alleviate it

The idea of a rearm action has been brought up before, but usually comes down to a question of action efficiency. Putting a Torpedo on Wedge, for instance, means that he must spend 2 turns with low quality (he's not taking any focus/target lock actions to make his attacks better) primary attacks if he wants to reuse his torpedo. If the torpedo were so much better than the primary that it would make up for this lack of action, it would become an interesting decision. But as it stands, I don't think it is.

The lack of reusability is only one issue, I think (and combining the target lock/rearm step into one action would help). For me, a lot of the problem is simply the low amount of expected damage.

For me, at least, it's the 2 problems. Give me munitions worth taking, and I'll want to use them twice.

(And then I remember A-Wing Prockets, a PTL and think...)

Maybe a whole new action would help.

Something like this.

Equip this card to add the "Arm" action to your action bar

(not sure what slot it would fit into - maybe a generic title card or a mod slot)

The Arm Action.

When performing an Arm action the player places a red Arm token next to his ship.

This token may be spent in place of a target lock when using any secondary weapon with the Attack:Target Lock header.

Arm tokens are not removed at the end of a turn.

Maybe a whole new action would help.

Something like this.

Equip this card to add the "Arm" action to your action bar

(not sure what slot it would fit into - maybe a generic title card or a mod slot)

The Arm Action.

When performing an Arm action the player places a red Arm token next to his ship.

This token may be spent in place of a target lock when using any secondary weapon with the Attack:Target Lock header.

Arm tokens are not removed at the end of a turn.

This is REALLY good.

Most ships will only need a single Arm token, so they can get it on the first turn when all their non-positional actions are useless. Ships that load multiples will only need as many tokens as they have munitions, so they can slow-move at the start. Interesting tactically since vs, say, a loaded-to-the-gills Bomber list crazy rushes become a viable opening since you'd want to break into combat before they can fully arm.

Maybe a whole new action would help.

Something like this.

Equip this card to add the "Arm" action to your action bar

(not sure what slot it would fit into - maybe a generic title card or a mod slot)

The Arm Action.

When performing an Arm action the player places a red Arm token next to his ship.

This token may be spent in place of a target lock when using any secondary weapon with the Attack:Target Lock header.

Arm tokens are not removed at the end of a turn.

This is REALLY good.

Most ships will only need a single Arm token, so they can get it on the first turn when all their non-positional actions are useless. Ships that load multiples will only need as many tokens as they have munitions, so they can slow-move at the start. Interesting tactically since vs, say, a loaded-to-the-gills Bomber list crazy rushes become a viable opening since you'd want to break into combat before they can fully arm.

Thanks

perhaps adding a condition that you can't perform a secondary weapon in the same round that you perform an Arm action might add to that kind of tactical element - but I wouldn't want to overburden it with too many conditions

Wouldn't it be simpler to make a modification that allows you to complete your target lock action at the end of the activation phase? That way any ship could take it and you don't need a new action.

Wouldn't it be simpler to make a modification that allows you to complete your target lock action at the end of the activation phase? That way any ship could take it and you don't need a new action.

No - changing the order of play would not simplify anything - more likely the opposite would be the case

plus it would do nothing to improve the reliability of missiles and torps that require you to spend the TL before you fire.

Being able to spend a different token instead of a TL allows you to stack actions making ordnance much more reliable

Being able to "arm" your ordnance in the opening turn(s) when you are out of TL range, makes low PS ordnance carriers more viable

I like this arm action idea. Very nice. Then you can also use focus and target lock for their intended purposes. Of course, I still want it coupled with the ability to spend arm tokens in place of discarding ordnance cards.

I like this arm action idea. Very nice. Then you can also use focus and target lock for their intended purposes. Of course, I still want it coupled with the ability to spend arm tokens in place of discarding ordnance cards.

Well you deserve a little credit - your suggestion got me thinking "it's not rearming the things that's the problem - it's arming the buggers in the first place that's so frustrating.

So I just took your suggestion and flipped it on its head.

I like this arm action idea. Very nice. Then you can also use focus and target lock for their intended purposes. Of course, I still want it coupled with the ability to spend arm tokens in place of discarding ordnance cards.

It might be as simple as adding "secondary weapons attacks which use an Arm token are not discarded when fired" to the Arm text. Keep the Arm card as a 2 point modification (for example) and it still fits around Munitions Failsafe, but it's good enough to be worth the extra point.

We'll call the card "Master Arm", which is the modification adding the Arm action to the action bar.

I like this -- it would allow creation of future ships that already have the Arm action native (like the Assault Shuttle), and it would also allow things like the creation of an X-wing Title card that grants the Arm action strictly to X-wings, which might help their costing.

I don't like the addition of a new action. I like the idea of keeping the target locks as they are as this is a benefit to the higher PS pilots. I think the discard should just be a "discard" where the card is turned over and an action must be used to reload, turn it back over. This benefits ships like the bombers that would be able to carry multiple shots in a row and also give fighters like A-wings an advantage with PTL. Although I could also see this getting out of hand with more A-wing only lists with PTL and proton rockets. Still you would only get 4 a-wings with proton rockets and PTL in a list, and only range 1 shots would be a concern. I don't feel like this is overpowered but makes them a real threat.

I like this arm action idea. Very nice. Then you can also use focus and target lock for their intended purposes. Of course, I still want it coupled with the ability to spend arm tokens in place of discarding ordnance cards.

It might be as simple as adding "secondary weapons attacks which use an Arm token are not discarded when fired" to the Arm text. Keep the Arm card as a 2 point modification (for example) and it still fits around Munitions Failsafe, but it's good enough to be worth the extra point.

We'll call the card "Master Arm", which is the modification adding the Arm action to the action bar.

I like this -- it would allow creation of future ships that already have the Arm action native (like the Assault Shuttle), and it would also allow things like the creation of an X-wing Title card that grants the Arm action strictly to X-wings, which might help their costing.

It still doesn't help the Homing Missile a great deal though

Ok you could use an "Armed" HM as kind of a dumb-fire missile without a TL - but why would you do that with a 5 point missile?

That wouldn't bother me too much though - if you could improve every bit of ordnance just by doing something as simple as adding a new action to the game via an upgrade card - with the exception of 1 missile that just sort of stays about as good as it ever was - then I'll take it.

Except that completing the target lock action at the end ogfactivation WOULD make getting ordance off far more reliable for low PS ships. Giving low PS ships the chance to acquire target locks on ships that would have been out of range during their own movement, or keep them from locking ships that will move out.

As for complexity my suggesting requires a mod card that says when you use the target lock action place the red target lock token at the end of the activation phase.

Yours will require a mod card to add the action, a card explaining the new action (as all new actions get) and enough red tokens to use the action.

I don't like the addition of a new action. I like the idea of keeping the target locks as they are as this is a benefit to the higher PS pilots. I think the discard should just be a "discard" where the card is turned over and an action must be used to reload, turn it back over. This benefits ships like the bombers that would be able to carry multiple shots in a row and also give fighters like A-wings an advantage with PTL. Although I could also see this getting out of hand with more A-wing only lists with PTL and proton rockets. Still you would only get 4 a-wings with proton rockets and PTL in a list, and only range 1 shots would be a concern. I don't feel like this is overpowered but makes them a real threat.

There have been plenty of new actions added to the game since it began.

The Boost action and the Cloak action are both examples of actions that were not present in the original game - plus the Huge ships have a whole bunch of unique actions too - so the addition of a new one is hardly a revolutionary idea.

Except that completing the target lock action at the end ogfactivation WOULD make getting ordance off far more reliable for low PS ships. Giving low PS ships the chance to acquire target locks on ships that would have been out of range during their own movement, or keep them from locking ships that will move out.

As for complexity my suggesting requires a mod card that says when you use the target lock action place the red target lock token at the end of the activation phase.

Yours will require a mod card to add the action, a card explaining the new action (as all new actions get) and enough red tokens to use the action.

This makes very good sense. It's always been a bit frustrating that you can't target lock even though you know the enemy WILL be in range when the time comes.

Except that completing the target lock action at the end ogfactivation WOULD make getting ordance off far more reliable for low PS ships. Giving low PS ships the chance to acquire target locks on ships that would have been out of range during their own movement, or keep them from locking ships that will move out.

As for complexity my suggesting requires a mod card that says when you use the target lock action place the red target lock token at the end of the activation phase.

Yours will require a mod card to add the action, a card explaining the new action (as all new actions get) and enough red tokens to use the action.

It's not a bad solution I'll grant you - but it fails to address the other main shortcoming of ordnance, and that is its rather disappointing damage potential.

Why would anyone put 2 proton torps on a B-Wing when they can get a HLC for a point less that will keep shooting with 4 red dice throughout the game? especially when the HLC can get the benefit of stacked actions.

If you were actually rewarded for gaining a target lock by actually being able to use it for a reroll then that would go a long way to making it worthwhile.

That's why I think ordnance should be unlimited target lock and unlimited range, generally speaking. It gives a huge advantage over a cannon, so even if you do discard the card, there's a reason to take it. Of course, since the game doesn't take into account the ability to crank to get beyond the missile's gimbal limits, or to pop chaff and flares, maybe that's not the best call.

Maybe a whole new action would help.

Something like this.

Equip this card to add the "Arm" action to your action bar

(not sure what slot it would fit into - maybe a generic title card or a mod slot)

The Arm Action.

When performing an Arm action the player places a red Arm token next to his ship.

This token may be spent in place of a target lock when using any secondary weapon with the Attack:Target Lock header.

Arm tokens are not removed at the end of a turn.

I'll throw my vote behind this idea. Seems like there are "Fix Ordnance" threads on here every week, but this idea is by far the most elegant I've read. I tip my hat to you sir.

I like the idea of creating a new "Arm" action and token. I'd suggest a torpedo slot upgrade that gives the new action for 1 point, making it accessible to the B-wing, Y-wing, and TIE Bomber. I don't expect the B-wings would take it too often, but the TIE bomber would love this thing. They Y-wings fall into either the Turret/Warthog or Torpedo carrier, but probably not both (too expensive).

You could make a 2pt modification that does the same thing for the remaining missile/torpedo carriers, but now you're building your ship to make that ordnance more effective and using a modification slot to do it.

While we're at it, may as well give the X-wing a Rogue Squadron title that gives it a free Arm action for that little boost everyone seems to think the X-wing needs.

That's why I think ordnance should be unlimited target lock and unlimited range, generally speaking. It gives a huge advantage over a cannon, so even if you do discard the card, there's a reason to take it. Of course, since the game doesn't take into account the ability to crank to get beyond the missile's gimbal limits, or to pop chaff and flares, maybe that's not the best call.

I really wish they would bump up ordnance ranges by one or two! It would match there BVR roll in the sims better. They would become much more attractive for first strike lists, and would be easier to target look and focus someone because of the extra range.

The problem is introducing it to the game... Would it be a straight errata, a mod? Both have their pros and cons and you still have to release an expansion so people can get the extra long range stick without buying an epic ship.

Maybe a whole new action would help.

Something like this.

Equip this card to add the "Arm" action to your action bar

(not sure what slot it would fit into - maybe a generic title card or a mod slot)

The Arm Action.

When performing an Arm action the player places a red Arm token next to his ship.

This token may be spent in place of a target lock when using any secondary weapon with the Attack:Target Lock header.

Arm tokens are not removed at the end of a turn.

I'll throw my vote behind this idea. Seems like there are "Fix Ordnance" threads on here every week, but this idea is by far the most elegant I've read. I tip my hat to you sir.

I like the idea of creating a new "Arm" action and token. I'd suggest a torpedo slot upgrade that gives the new action for 1 point, making it accessible to the B-wing, Y-wing, and TIE Bomber. I don't expect the B-wings would take it too often, but the TIE bomber would love this thing. They Y-wings fall into either the Turret/Warthog or Torpedo carrier, but probably not both (too expensive).

You could make a 2pt modification that does the same thing for the remaining missile/torpedo carriers, but now you're building your ship to make that ordnance more effective and using a modification slot to do it.

While we're at it, may as well give the X-wing a Rogue Squadron title that gives it a free Arm action for that little boost everyone seems to think the X-wing needs.

I think it would work better if it wasn't in the mod slot, as I think it should be able to work in conjunction with Failsafe - so you can equip a cheap missile or torp, "dumb-fire" it with Arm, but mitigate the risk with MF

Not sure how you'd do that though - a title that you can put on any ship seems a little weak

Arming .. great idea.

I can't help but think that range is also a big issue for ordnance. In the PC games (and in the real world) missiles have far greater range.

As a suggestion, if there was a card that said "All friendly ships within range 3 may pass their own target locks to you" (this happens in Stackpole's X-wing books) and all ordnance was increased to R5 it could make for a more interesting game.

Bombers would linger on the edge of the battle and maneouvre to stay within R5 while opponents would want to rush the bombers and take them out of action quickly. It breathes a lot of life into the bombers and gives them a unique ability and place in the lists.