You know why there's no female rebel pilots in the movies? Originally there was suppose to be a few in RotJ, but it was decided (by the studio or distributers iirc) that the movie going public couldn't handle the idea of seeing them die in battle.

You know why there's no female rebel pilots in the movies? Originally there was suppose to be a few in RotJ, but it was decided (by the studio or distributers iirc) that the movie going public couldn't handle the idea of seeing them die in battle.

I'm going to walk away from this one.

Isn't it a functionally irrelevant distinction for the purposes of the game? I mean, as far as my headcanon goes all generics and unspecified pilots might as well be women, but it's not bloody necessary for my enjoyment of the game. And if it was, I think I'd be judging the game on merits other than its own, like trying to take Scrambler morality into the modern justice system or something.

I rather thought that was my point.

idk, I was responding to the thread/argument as a whole?

-

inclusivity quotas, diversity only for its own sake, etc, I'd rather see work put into making /good/ characters regardless of gender/skin/pseudopods than that same work put into "how many real or imaginary demographics can we cozy up to".

You know why there's no female rebel pilots in the movies? Originally there was suppose to be a few in RotJ, but it was decided (by the studio or distributers iirc) that the movie going public couldn't handle the idea of seeing them die in battle.

Once again demonstrating ivory-tower sociopathy, bleh

The gender/race of the rebel pilots sort of plays into my theory about the origins of the rebel alliance and how it changed over time.

Initially it was a dispute between the landed elite of the old republic and the central government, like a medieval baronial revolt. If you look at the founding members they were senators from the most powerful core worlds who rejected Palpatine taking away their political power. Therefore many of the important early figures in the rebellion were male humans, Bail Organa, Garm Bel Iblis, Jan Dodonna. Even the important female figures were also humans, and people in positions of power. The early pilots would have been humans from those worlds or imperial defectors, either way there were career soldiers from large human dominated worlds, by and large. (Tycho Celchu, Biggs, Hobbie, Jan Dodonna, etc)

After the destruction of Alderaan however the rebellion changed into more of a popular revolt. It was an act that targeted all levels of society and wasn't able to be explained away or hidden. And so the galactic civil war changed from a war between the upper classes and into a true revolution. By ROTJ we see many more aliens in rebel service and I think this is why.

Sir Emil,

It is entirely possible that you've put more thought into this that Lucas ever did, but I love it and am absolutely stealing your theory. That makes a whole lot of sense. It's also worth noting that Luke, as farm boy hero (who wanted to join the Empire, iirc), helps the transition by becoming the face of the new Rebellion. He's still a white male human which appeals to those in power, but a moisture farmer on Tattoine has to have a certain amount of working class appeal.

Yeah, it's a bit confusing how Luke begs his family to go to the academy, but then tells Kenobi "I don't like the Empire, I hate it, but there's nothing I can do about it right now." You hate it but were signing up to be a TIE Pilot? Maybe originally, Lucas had a rebel academy in mind? That, or Luke was like "Genocide is awful, but if it means flying a starfighter, I guess I'll do anything." I could respect that logic...

I've always reconciled that by just figuring that Luke supports the troops, even if he doesn't support Imperial policy. I certainly don't think he knew about a lot of Imperial crimes. He probably just didn't like their taxes and presence on Tattoine, but was willing to put up with that a.) to fly a starfighter and b.) get off of the desert planet whose economy literally relies on farming water.

Going back on topic: It's interesting to see the breakdown in the waves. It looks like FFG is increasing diversity now that they've worked through the main characters.

I've always reconciled that by just figuring that Luke supports the troops, even if he doesn't support Imperial policy. I certainly don't think he knew about a lot of Imperial crimes. He probably just didn't like their taxes and presence on Tattoine, but was willing to put up with that a.) to fly a starfighter and b.) get off of the desert planet whose economy literally relies on farming water.

Going back on topic: It's interesting to see the breakdown in the waves. It looks like FFG is increasing diversity now that they've worked through the main characters.

I agree with that latter statement and am really jazzed to see it. Though, I think they did their best in the initial waves too, but the original movies didn't have a lot to offer when it came to diversity is all.

One thing to keep in mind, the Imperial Academy's about the only chance a kid from Tatooine would have, period, at uni-level education.

Yeah, it's a bit confusing how Luke begs his family to go to the academy, but then tells Kenobi "I don't like the Empire, I hate it, but there's nothing I can do about it right now." You hate it but were signing up to be a TIE Pilot? Maybe originally, Lucas had a rebel academy in mind? That, or Luke was like "Genocide is awful, but if it means flying a starfighter, I guess I'll do anything." I could respect that logic...

I always took it as step 1 to becoming a rebel star fighter pilot. Remember Biggs went to the academy. Tycho, and I hear Han also, went to imp school. I always took it that Luke intended to learn star fightering at the academy and then run off to the rebellion with Biggs.

Yeah, it's a bit confusing how Luke begs his family to go to the academy, but then tells Kenobi "I don't like the Empire, I hate it, but there's nothing I can do about it right now." You hate it but were signing up to be a TIE Pilot? Maybe originally, Lucas had a rebel academy in mind? That, or Luke was like "Genocide is awful, but if it means flying a starfighter, I guess I'll do anything." I could respect that logic...

I always took it as step 1 to becoming a rebel star fighter pilot. Remember Biggs went to the academy. Tycho, and I hear Han also, went to imp school. I always took it that Luke intended to learn star fightering at the academy and then run off to the rebellion with Biggs.

That's fair enough, though it's shocking the Empire is so willing to train its adversaries. Did they want to give the Rebels a sporting chance?

I've always reconciled that by just figuring that Luke supports the troops, even if he doesn't support Imperial policy. I certainly don't think he knew about a lot of Imperial crimes. He probably just didn't like their taxes and presence on Tattoine, but was willing to put up with that a.) to fly a starfighter and b.) get off of the desert planet whose economy literally relies on farming water.

Going back on topic: It's interesting to see the breakdown in the waves. It looks like FFG is increasing diversity now that they've worked through the main characters.

One thing to keep in mind, the Imperial Academy's about the only chance a kid from Tatooine would have, period, at uni-level education.

2 maybe 3 things.

1) the first three movies (4,5,6) were made in a period where women in movies were less emancipated than today. I mean take a look at the last star fighter Female aliens flying, that looked nothing like a human, the one human female that was in military was at a desk job (applying the translator)

2) Luke if you go back through cannon (Dangerous territory) was like his father on Tatooine, bullied and basically with few friends.

Leading to 3

3) Re watch the first section. Where you first hear good ole squirmy (Luke) whine about not going into Tosche station to get the power converters. Notice the utter loss in his voice when he tells the droids to move their butts. Notice the change instantly when the droid pops the motivator, Luke at this point is back to being a moisture farmer. Fast forward a little, he's not even working, he's PLAYING with a Model skyhopper He's not there he's not working. he's not being a farm boy. He's anywhere but there. Then he finally brought back to reality by c-3po, and what does he say? It just isn't fair, oh Biggs is right I'm never gonna get out of here. He even goes on to describe Tatooine as the planet farthest from the bright center of the universe. Fast forward a bit more, and you find him at the dinner table where he talks to his uncle about transferring his application to the academy to this year. While the commentary is carefully approached he looses. He even admits when two of his friends left for the academy he was left behind. And lastly watch the commentary by Beru his aunt.

Summary, Luke "Squirmy" Skywalker is a pouty brat who is just not a farmer, he's got too much of his father in him. He's anything but a farm boy on a one way track to being a farmer. He's looking for an escape.

Now to the comment

Nightshrike

Posted Today, 10:28 PM

Yeah, it's a bit confusing how Luke begs his family to go to the academy, but then tells Kenobi "I don't like the Empire, I hate it, but there's nothing I can do about it right now." You hate it but were signing up to be a TIE Pilot?

When you are desperate to escape your situation and you are naive about a totalitarian government, getting the heck out of BFE, anywhere is better than on Owen Lar's farm.

Now when he meets Obi-wan, mind you he's no longer crazy old ben, he's a man shrouded in the mysteries of the force who fought in the clone wars along side Anikin Skywalker. Who was the best star fighter pilot in the galaxy and a cunning warrior. The propaganda of the empire was smashed by the statement from Ben.

A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine before he turned to evil, helped the empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi knights. He betrayed and murdered your father.

I mean a young man who learned the "Truth" about his fathers death from an old man and how Darth Vader mudered him. That's a life altering moment.

Then you have this message from his to be announced sister that confirms Kenobi being General who served with her adopted "Father" in the clone wars, and who is begging to aid him in the struggle against the empire. And both of them are in a rebellion against the empire?

He's still a boy stuck being a farmer with a desperate way out. Kenobi who's using the force to see the future perhaps? Says If you are to come with me to Alderaan.

This catches Luke in a bind he's conflicted He's not sure exactly what to think He's just learned his father was murdered by the loved empire recipient of academy pilots and that the hot looking chick is first off a princess, and a rebel? In today's age that kid is going to need therapy for what happened in the process of an hour or two conversation! He's panicking. He's not sure what to think.

I mean even the scene is musicless as says if you are to come with me. Kenobi tries to reason with him and you watch Luke deal with this internal conflict and then he says

I can't get involved I have work to do, it's not that I like the empire I hate it but there's nothing I can do about it right now.

and Kenobi says "That's your uncle talking"

And then Luke still conflicted goes off about his Uncle and the trouble he's going to be in.

He's fighting that conflict as he figures the old expression In for a penny in for a pound, and says I can take you as far as Anchorhead.

He is a boy who goes from wanting to escape to Holy crap my life just exploded in the process of a conversation.

Yeah, it's a bit confusing how Luke begs his family to go to the academy, but then tells Kenobi "I don't like the Empire, I hate it, but there's nothing I can do about it right now." You hate it but were signing up to be a TIE Pilot? Maybe originally, Lucas had a rebel academy in mind? That, or Luke was like "Genocide is awful, but if it means flying a starfighter, I guess I'll do anything." I could respect that logic...

I always took it as step 1 to becoming a rebel star fighter pilot. Remember Biggs went to the academy. Tycho, and I hear Han also, went to imp school. I always took it that Luke intended to learn star fightering at the academy and then run off to the rebellion with Biggs.

That's fair enough, though it's shocking the Empire is so willing to train its adversaries. Did they want to give the Rebels a sporting chance?

Actually its not shocking at all.

Take military training in middle eastern countries. The governments train troops to defend their borders and there's a rebellion and those who were trained leave the militia's/armies.

Yet the government still trains on.

Yeah, it's a bit confusing how Luke begs his family to go to the academy, but then tells Kenobi "I don't like the Empire, I hate it, but there's nothing I can do about it right now." You hate it but were signing up to be a TIE Pilot? Maybe originally, Lucas had a rebel academy in mind? That, or Luke was like "Genocide is awful, but if it means flying a starfighter, I guess I'll do anything." I could respect that logic...

I always took it as step 1 to becoming a rebel star fighter pilot. Remember Biggs went to the academy. Tycho, and I hear Han also, went to imp school. I always took it that Luke intended to learn star fightering at the academy and then run off to the rebellion with Biggs.

That's fair enough, though it's shocking the Empire is so willing to train its adversaries. Did they want to give the Rebels a sporting chance?

Actually its not shocking at all.

Take military training in middle eastern countries. The governments train troops to defend their borders and there's a rebellion and those who were trained leave the militia's/armies.

Yet the government still trains on.

Except in the quoted view of things, the Empire doesn't make any efforts to sift out those likely to defect from those unlikely to defect. You look at those Middle Eastern countries and I promise you they have hard core secret police who are vetting every single academy applicant, particularly for flying fighter jets (which is what the TIE fighter is the equivalent of). You're not going to give a very expensive jet to someone whose loyalty is in question. You're also not going to sink all that money in training a pilot, which is even more expensive, if there is even a whiff of disloyalty about them.

That's why defections (which did occur in the cold war) were so rare and so high profile. Pilots are the only soldiers who can, quite easily, switch sides in a war, and governments are well aware of this. The Empire should be too.

For all the sci-fi I have inhaled over the decades, I don't ever recall seeing a Starwars Star map? I assume there is one?

Behold....

Pilots are the only soldiers who can, quite easily, switch sides in a war, and governments are well aware of this. The Empire should be too.

Should be.. but... Pride... Politics.. dead Jedi order ... A death star.

You are also forgetting the now non-cannon aspect of how biggs actually defected. How people dissapeared for voicing anti-Imperial sentiments I mean if you are willing to go on the old books Look at Rogue squadron, guy got captured and put in a super star destroyer that was if I recall correctly kept the lower decks gravity turned upside down, so that when you went up to escape you just went into the dirt. Don't forget the spice mines of Kessel or any other penal colony. They knew.

But pride....

Still quoting

Moff/officer seated at briefing table (sure he's gotta name) "Untill this battle station is fully operational we are vulnerable. The rebel alliance is too well equipped and more dangerous than you realize"

Shortly after another moff/officer "Any attack made by the rebels against this station would be a useless gesture, no matter what technical data they have obtained. This station is now the ultimate power in the universe. I suggest we use it.

Finally you have Grand moff Tarken

"This bickering is pointless. Lord Vader will provide us with the location of the rebel fortress by the time this station is operational. We will then crush the rebellion with one swift stroke"

You know why there's no female rebel pilots in the movies? Originally there was suppose to be a few in RotJ, but it was decided (by the studio or distributers iirc) that the movie going public couldn't handle the idea of seeing them die in battle.

I'm going to walk away from this one.

Well that's studio executives for you. We've come a long way since the 70's & 80's.

You can even buy miniatures for all of these named pilots too. I have a suitable miniature for just about everyone on that list in the OP.

See the entire Outrider crew? There are many of the S&V too. Evil Wookie Gunner, and random fun Firespray-31 and Z-95 Pilots and so forth... it is fun!

I just set 'em with their cards and stuff and smile when I look at 'em!

Come with the rest of the Bounty Hunters FFG!

For all the sci-fi I have inhaled over the decades, I don't ever recall seeing a Starwars Star map? I assume there is one?

Behold....

[map]

Indeed, it's from the Essential Atlas, IMO one of the most awesome details books out there.

I just hope that the Lucasfilm Story Group doesn't toss it in the trash.

Yeah, it's a bit confusing how Luke begs his family to go to the academy, but then tells Kenobi "I don't like the Empire, I hate it, but there's nothing I can do about it right now." You hate it but were signing up to be a TIE Pilot? Maybe originally, Lucas had a rebel academy in mind? That, or Luke was like "Genocide is awful, but if it means flying a starfighter, I guess I'll do anything." I could respect that logic...

I believe the way it worked is they trained you for nothing or next to nothing, you did your time as a TIE pilot and then you were free to go and had a starship licence and qualifications.

Summary, Luke "Squirmy" Skywalker is a pouty brat who is just not a farmer, he's got too much of his father in him. He's anything but a farm boy on a one way track to being a farmer. He's looking for an escape.

Luke's nickname was Wormie, not Squirmy.

I always thought the 'academy' in ep. IV was still an independent institution that trained pilots for many different purposes, not just the imperial fleet. In my mind, if fate had not intervened and Luke would have been able to apply, he'd be flying commercially or for a local authority.

You can also take the prequels in account. The term 'academy' suggest it is an old institution, but the old republic did not have an army. So it stand to reason that the academy did not train only pilots for the republic. A planet like Naboo did have fighters and pilots, in spite of its peaceful reputation.

In short, when Luke said he wanted to go to the academy, I don't think he had in mind becoming a TIE fighter pilot.

For all the sci-fi I have inhaled over the decades, I don't ever recall seeing a Starwars Star map? I assume there is one?

EDIT: And FYI for people saying Legends ain't canon anymore, X-wing IS Legends. X-wing falls into the category of EU. Anything that is canon in the EU is canon in X-wing.

Whisper has been confirmed by FFG to be female so you can correct her gender to female.

When did they do that? I don't remember seeing it and would like to know what else I may of missed.

Today I thought I'd put together a list of all the named pilots along with their Gender, race, Ship flown, faction & a link to addition data from Wookieepedia for my small group of social X-Wingers as a quick fire argument stopper.

If you are curious, it looks like this

I'm just curious why you phonetically spelled out Wes Janson in the pronounciation column. Was his name difficult to sound out?