I totally understand player caps because of space limitations. I do think if your space is so small that you can't accommodate more than 10 players or so, you probably shouldn't even apply for an SC.

You're not working for FFG making the call about who can and can't host a store championship, are you?

My hypothetical "friends only" SC is extreme, but what's to actually stop a store from doing that? Personally, it wouldn't feel right to offer first pick of all of those spots to league players, no matter how loyal they are to the store, but maybe I shouldn't care.

If I'm in the minority for being bothered by this sort of thing, I won't let it bother me anymore. And next year, if our store gets to host an SC, I'll consider doing something similar to the store in question. That would mean that one of our league players is more likely to win it. So far, some of you seem to feel that that's fine.

I think it's entirely possible you're attributing to malice that which needn't be, and I think it's also in poor taste to go out of your way to be malicious about it in response (with your plans for next year, knowing that doing so would be for selfish reasons, after attributing those selfish reasons to others).

Intent counts for a lot. You're assuming bad intent on the part of a store that can't fit very many people, but then you're showing bad intent with your (joking, I'm sure?) plans to do the same, simply because you can.

I get that it might annoy the heck out of you to see others being given early access to registration.

However, it actually makes a lot of sense to me that the "store championship" would be the culmination of the "store league".

The other question: does a 16 player cap seem reasonable given the size of the store? That's 8 tables, which requires a lot of space. Weird as it may sound, a lot of stores are tiny because paying rent on a bigger space could never be profitable.

I ran a Store Championship exactly like the complaints of the OP. Note that I'm just a volunteer, and not an employee or owner of the store.

Let me tell you why.

First, the cap. I capped the event at 16 players, because that is the all the table space they had. It simply isn't possible to add any more players. Should FFG require stores to run non-capped events? Nope. Dumbest idea ever. FFG OP is centered around growing the player base at each store. The Game Night Kits are there to support casual play. You can use these to promote the game by running "Casual" tournaments open to any skill level. You can also just use them for your store to run a league. Any level of skill in the game is welcome at these events.

Store Championships are the next step up, "Casual/Competitive". These require the players to know the rules, but no necessarily be an expert. There are used to promote the store's player base with a slightly higher level of competitive play. Note that a TO can play in both of these type of events. Not until you hit Regionals do you run into Premier events that demand a higher level of commitment from the store running them.

The systems is set up to promote the player base at the store. It's not there to allow hyper-competitive players who want to attend ten different Store Championships with their dominate meta squad lists.

I opened preregistration to the regular store players about a week before I posted event listings online allowing preregistration from anyone. Why? So those local players who support the store every week and buy their X-Wing product in the store, not online or at another store, can get a spot before they're gobbled up. This is what the intent of the OP program at this level is meant to do. Promote the local player base. If I don't do that, then my limited spots of 16 might get taken by out-of-towners who will never spend a cent in the store, and thereby exclude the player base I'm trying to support and grow.

Finally, I don't think you realize how little money there is to be made on X-Wing in general and on tournament especially. One of the great things about X-Wing is that it really is fairly cheap to buy into for a miniatures game. A couple of hundred dollars retail gets you a really nice start on a collection. Only the most zealous players would spend over grand on this game. Compare this to Game Workshop product, and it's just a pittance. While that's great for players, it means it's not a big money maker for any store. Each single $15 ship is earning your store $4 or less. If a store sells 100 of those a month, not likely for a small store, that's a whopping $400.

Kits cost money. Charging a $5 entry fee for a Game Night Kit tournament is about the most you can get. Some balk at that. Selling out the 16 spots it supports will net your a profit of $55. If, you sell out. Store Champion kits are double the cost. Charging more than $10 is rough. You might make all of $110 on a store championship.

Now compare that to a CCG event. A $10 entry fee that might draw 30 plus in a store that could hold up 60 or so players. The margin is essentially the same, but the pie is bigger. And, these CCG players are spending more money every week, every month, every quarter than X-Wing players will. The opportunity cost of running X-Wing events over other events is a big deal. Margins are thin for Brick & Mortar stores, so choosing to make less money isn't something you want to choose very often.

Should a store just rent out a bigger space for the events? Bad idea for two reasons. One, FFG want events like these to be held in retail stores that support the product. Moving them is frowned up. I know, I've tried. Second, this adds to the cost of the event that already isn't making enough money. That would have to be passed on.

So, what would you pay to attend a Store Championship event. $25? $30? More? You'd need to charge at least this to even consider that option.

The moral of the story is buy where you play to help support your store, and stop complaining there isn't enough room or enough events for you to play in.

Assuming that the Store Championship is anything more than a glorified local tournament is folly. I don't like closed off tournaments, period. Keeping any tournament to a small select few, with no outsiders is pathetic elitism. But, if space is a limitation, I don't see why it is wrong to allow the locals first at reserving their spot.

A group of people got togeather and bought some prize support for their gathering. Someone outside the group wants in. The group lets them, if they have space. Where is the problem? How entitled to you have to be to demand strangers accommodate you? To insist they have a moral imperative to make space for you.

Seriously?

All right, the growing consensus is that a bit of in-group favoritism is fine in this case. Good to know. I truly appreciate the responses.

All right, the growing consensus is that a bit of in-group favoritism is fine in this case. Good to know. I truly appreciate the responses.

If they were hoarding food, or denying medical help to those in need, I would be on the other side of this one.

I don't have any problem with a store capping the number of players they can support. If they were dissalowed from running the even then you are in the same boat is if you missed the player cap so it doesn't effect you in any way actually. For Store Champs I think we as a community should do our best to get "EVERY" and I do mean "EVERY" store to apply and host them to help grow the community. It's not really a huge event in the grander scheme of things and the more opportunity for players to play the merrier.

Secondly when you apply (as we did at GameCafe in KC) for a regional you are required to announce the number of players you can accomodate on the application. I imagine if a store tried to change that they would be dissallowed from hosting further event. Our shop is actually even going so far to suspend other events going on that day to ensure that the space will be solely available for the event which is a tough move for some shops as regular business is usually what keeps the lights on. We are just blessed with having one of the greatest player general player bases ever so most of the the regulars totally understand.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is as long as a store is being up front and honest about everything the more Store Champs the merrier. I know I'll be looking at getting every FLGS in KC next year to apply for Store Champs that can.

The application for Store Championships also asked how many players the venue could accommodate, but I have no idea what FFG's standards are when it comes to accommodations for SCs and Regionals. If we assume that store X was honest about its capacity when it applied for an SC, that gives me some idea of the standards, though. I won't hesitate to apply next year, knowing that we meet that requirement (with room for about 24).

Honestly FFG should let clubs host tornemens rather than trying to cram them into shops. My LGS hasn't a hope of running a decent sized tornement, but the club where I play could easily fit 32+ players.

"The politics in academia are so vicious because the stakes are so small."

Really, the amount of drama that can spring from a couple of cheap acrylic shinies and an opportunity to play less X-wing is astonishing.

There's a Store Championship in my area that has a 16 player limit, presumably because of gaming space. Also, they gave their store league members a couple of days to pre-register before allowing anyone else to.

I can't find anything in the SC literature that forbids that sort of thing, but it doesn't seem right. Could you cap it at 12 players? 6 players? Could you just prohibit non-league players from attending entirely?

I saw the application form for SCs this year and one of the questions was about how many players the venue could accommodate. I'm surprised FFG approved this particular store's application if the store answered honestly about its capacity, considering the number of prizes in the kit.

However, they are "store championships" and maybe it's totally in the spirit of the event to do something like reward a store's league players with early exclusive access to them. But it kind of feels like favoritism, and it could be taken to extremes. I wish I knew what FFG intended.

Which store is this? I am going to one this coming Saturday in Cincinnati and don't want to make a 3 hour trip to have this happen to me. I would be really mad.

It's nowhere near Cincinnati.

Registration for store X is already closed and they did a good job of keeping people in the loop.

I attended a SC this past weekend, it was my first ever. I've been playing for about a year and a half and my local gaming group convinced me to go.

I had to arrange for sitters for my kids ( my casual competition to whom I tend to lose to keep them interested) spend the money for a tank of gas, spend the money on food. And pay to enter a tourney that with those in attendance more than payed for the kit that was delved out. My group comprised of 5 players in attendance. Another group drove 30-40 min in, bringing two cars (roughly bout 10) people and we had about 22 in total. The owner even admitted that his own X-wing group had been MIA for quite some time.

now you talk about caps, you talk about limits. And you talk about how yeah your local group shouldn't piss on its local players and piss on your traveling players.

But consider this. I was starting my second match when a mother brought her two children into the store. They were lightly and I mean lightly greeted by a busy owner who was in the process of setting our timer. The two boys one a teen who seemed to know something about gaming, and a preteen. The preteen stopped at my matches table, and my opponent and I both from out side the local group. As the owner called start, we were in the middle of explaining Star Wars X-wing Miniatures to this family. Cultivating a local potential for local groups and sales. We not only had the interest of the littlest person listening but also the mother and her other boy. We spent our game time to actually sell product out of the store to this family.

The response from the owner was basically Eh what ever piss off you are travelers. But he made X amount of profit selling a starter, a recently stocked falcon cause hey every kid's gottta have the millennium falcon and a couple of single ships.

Yet in this case our groups arrived early, knew exactly what to expect in a store championship, and even TO'ed the event (His was out of town). the store was unprepared for anything above 8 players. The locals were so enthralled with the game they couldn't be troubled to do what travelers did, that is promote the LGS and even the owners didn't seem to overly care.

It sounds like the OP had genuine concerns and my store didn't have a fracken clue what to do with 22 people. In fact the owners seemed rather pissed off that they had to cancel the Saturday Poke`mon tourney. That could be arguably founded as lost of profit. Yet single shops make more on snacks than on cards. (and this owner was adamant, no outside food or drinks! however the store windows were nicely clear so most of us stood outside drinking watching the final 4 go to town one another.)

You can't discredit every traveler, nor should you piss on them. Specially in Rural areas where it's a choice Go 30 min for a crappy store that treats you like dirt cause you can't afford daily time/money to live in a store. or go an hour away to some place else or worse. places like online or barnes & noble.

Couple posts added inbetween mine.

The SC I attended was listed in the states X-wing face book, promoted by the store owner.

We even offered to bring mats just in case, and got a response of Yes do it.

Hmm Travelers and their atrocious ways of not helping out.

I need to stay something about this if the store puts on Facebook that they are having the SC and sends out invites to 18-20 people and all the people show up to the store and the store starts bitching about it well that is on the store. I do not have a Local Store that dose SC right so I do go to other stores but only the ones I get invites to and if a buddy of mine or two want to go I message the store and if they say ok we all go. Now when we get to the store we are looking to play and have a good time the store is in the wrong for treating the people like crap because they did not know that many people where showing up after they put out the invites. If a store only can fit so many people only said that many invites out and tell people about the cap before not as they are walking in the door and been told to come play.

Couple posts added inbetween mine.

The SC I attended was listed in the states X-wing face book, promoted by the store owner.

We even offered to bring mats just in case, and got a response of Yes do it.

Hmm Travelers and their atrocious ways of not helping out.

Shocking, a game/comic store run by someone with little to no customer service skills.

Look, there is nothing wrong with traveling to play. But to force the Store Championships to have requirements to cater to those that like to travel to play and to make them some big deal tournament is not the reality and a terrible thing to do. Store Championships are glorified locals. And with all locals, the amount that show up or travel to them varies by region. It is wrong to limit Store Championships to those stores that can only space for x or more players. And I see nothing wrong with letting the locals have the chance to reserve their spot first.

This has nothing to do with traveling players being bad. This is about small stores having limits, and they shouldn't be left out because of them.

Couple posts added inbetween mine.

The SC I attended was listed in the states X-wing face book, promoted by the store owner.

We even offered to bring mats just in case, and got a response of Yes do it.

Hmm Travelers and their atrocious ways of not helping out.

Shocking, a game/comic store run by someone with little to no customer service skills.

Look, there is nothing wrong with traveling to play. But to force the Store Championships to have requirements to cater to those that like to travel to play and to make them some big deal tournament is not the reality and a terrible thing to do. Store Championships are glorified locals. And with all locals, the amount that show up or travel to them varies by region. It is wrong to limit Store Championships to those stores that can only space for x or more players. And I see nothing wrong with letting the locals have the chance to reserve their spot first.

This has nothing to do with traveling players being bad. This is about small stores having limits, and they shouldn't be left out because of them.

SC's were known about since December 2014. Scheduled according to how a store could fit it in.

Dave's statement was.

There's a Store Championship in my area that has a 16 player limit, presumably because of gaming space. Also, they gave their store league members a couple of days to pre-register before allowing anyone else to.

I can't find anything in the SC literature that forbids that sort of thing, but it doesn't seem right. Could you cap it at 12 players? 6 players? Could you just prohibit non-league players from attending entirely?

I saw the application form for SCs this year and one of the questions was about how many players the venue could accommodate. I'm surprised FFG approved this particular store's application if the store answered honestly about its capacity, considering the number of prizes in the kit.

However, they are "store championships" and maybe it's totally in the spirit of the event to do something like reward a store's league players with early exclusive access to them. But it kind of feels like favoritism, and it could be taken to extremes. I wish I knew what FFG intended.

I'd say at this point we both can cite extreme points in all of the conversations. with Arguments for both sides the pro travelers the pro locals the guys like me who are on both sides.

You said Store champion ships are glorified locals.

What if you live in North Platte, Nebraska and you no store what so ever. You have to travel an hour and half to get to Kerney, Nebraska and your 1 of the 1-5 players who want to learn even if they are doing things right? Are these not the places to do it? Are you going to spend money on a tank of gas to just get in a casual game? No you are going to go play for the gold, even if you suck even you are a world champion. It's not terrible to ask a store to not limit themselves and you are right, it will never happen.

Your average local goes into a game shop.

Your average shop owner decides to host a SC

Your average local is going to know in advance dates even times. Because he's there and usually is told Hey I applied for a SC and got approved we are going to host this! People are going to tell their friends and tell their friends (business rule of thumb, a bad experiance is multiplied by several thousand, cause one person tells ten, those ten each tell ten, and those hundred individuals tell ten. Only its different as gamers crave news of SC's)

Your average traveler (group or no) is going to find out "Some time" that your average shop is going to host a SC, cause it takes the FLGS time to get into social advertising on the subject.

Your average local is still greater than the traveler.

Small stores or not. The person is paying to play one way or the other.

Again you can go to extremes I was sharing an Extreme that I experienced in response to extremes.

Right or wrong? That's debateable

You can't discredit every traveler, nor should you piss on them. Specially in Rural areas where it's a choice Go 30 min for a crappy store that treats you like dirt cause you can't afford daily time/money to live in a store. or go an hour away to some place else or worse. places like online or barnes & noble.

Very true. I think I'm pretty blessed living smack in the middle of the Midwest and having so many opportunities to travel to play within reasonable distance for Store Championship/Regional season, and also that all the events that were traveled to so far this year were fantastic. Looking forward to Regional season for the next round of it.

Within my metro area (Kansas City) this year we had 2 stores hosting a Store Championship event out of a possible 5 that I know of that sell X-Wing product and were open at the time of applications. A 6th has opened up in the last six months, and the owner has been very engaging of the local community and getting people playing in their store. Now, this 6th store doesn't have the space that the two that hosted this year does (my LGS is prepping to host what we hope is 64+ regional in June, and the other store had a sizable Yugioh tournament along with a 30ish person SC at once), it could probably only fit a max of 20 people. It's within an hour of my house, but I've only played there once for a game for the city wide league (I love the store though, it's just more of a drive than I usually want to make). Next year, when it comes time for SCs I am going to have zero issue with them capping attendance and offering first dibs on spots to the players that actually play regularly in that store, even if it means that I can't play in a SC event in my metro area. It's not that the owner wouldn't like to have room for unlimited people, it's just that you can only fit so many into some stores.

I know the 'Store X' that DagobahDave is talking about and I was eligible for one of those first-option tickets for the league members. (I'll be out of town for that event, and so won't be attending.)

Honestly, I don't think you'd want to attend an event there with a lot more people than they have spots for. It's a back room with cramped space. I have liked going because there is a nice group of people there to play with, but it's not the most comfortable. Also, I'm not sure if the MtG players will be asked not to crowd out the X-Wing players, which is usually the case. Given that MtG is more of their bread & butter, I wouldn't count on it.

Further, the fact that they encourage league play means that they are the kind of store that tries to create community with 'their' players (and customers). I don't blame them for this, or for their giving first dibs to their players. I think promoting customer loyalty and community is entirely worth it.

In addition, I'd like to congratulate Dave's crew from his store league on their successes at 'our' store championship this last weekend. (Our local denizens had paltry winnings, due to the absence of our star players, but we were happy to have had the guests come up and give us a friendly thrashing .) It serves us right as we've done the same to his store for a couple of tournaments. (I say this, looking at my hard-won summer kit medal.)

In all, there's plenty of tournaments and championships going around in this area, and the Regional will be quite close by as well. I don't begrudge Store X their protected Championship.

This might seem simple but if the kits come with 16 participation prizes or whatever, then it seems that the venue should allow 16 participants. If the store doesn't have room for that many then that's probably not going to happen. It seems that FFG wants you to be able to host that many participants or they would give more or less of them? Maybe not, just my opinion.

This might seem simple but if the kits come with 16 participation prizes or whatever, then it seems that the venue should allow 16 participants. If the store doesn't have room for that many then that's probably not going to happen. It seems that FFG wants you to be able to host that many participants or they would give more or less of them? Maybe not, just my opinion.

The Store Championship kits come with 32, acknowledging that people will travel for Store Championships. I think leaving out smaller stores that are unable to accomodate that many people is wrong. And while all attempts should be made to allow any one who wants to wander in to play, that is just not the reality for many stores. I don't see what is wrong with giving the locals first shot at reserving their spots. As long as their limits are posted for all to see, and a chance is given for out of towners to get a spot, I don't see what is wrong with that.

Just up and traveling to a tournament with out looking at the details (like limits) is a foolish endeavor.

One potential solution that might appeal to both sides just use a good old fashion paper sheet signup at the register. Those that regularly attend the store will see the sheet and be able to sign up whenever they are there gaming/shopping/hanging out and would probably be there when the store puts the sheet up so they get first crack at it, and there is no stopping an "out of towner" from driving to the store and signing up early either or people who just bought a core set in-store from knowing about the tournament. Granted those with long drives may be a bit turned off but the option of p

To those concerned by a 14:00 start my LGS is running it's 16 place tornement on a Thursday night starting at 19:00. Pretty frustrating given the time it'll finish.

I say some need to lighten up Tbh

A lot of hobby stores have limited space.

If they can only hold 12-16 players they are not going to run out and rent a space for a couple extra people to show up.

If I was a store owner, had limited space why wouldn't i reserve the right to my loyal customers?

They are the ones bringing me business, and I want to continue getting their business.

I'm not going to go rent a hall because someone that doesn't bring me business feels as though the world should revolve around them

As for saying these stores shouldn't be allowed to run the event why not?

As far as I'm aware every store within a 4-6 hour drive from where I live that applied before the deadline received a sc kit.

What's next?

People complaining that it's not fair that some people have 2-3 stores running sc kits within a few min drive and they only have 1?

it's not like they are a rare commodity.

Go to a different store.

If there is only one in your area then maybe become part of their gaming group, and support your local business instead of acting like a spoiled child who doesn't get his way saying it's not fair I can't play with the others

I really can't believe grown men would have to complain about such things.

First world problems at its finest folks

Edit

They hand out sc kits like candy.

The only time I'd say there is a problem is a regional or national event as these are extremely limited.

I'm pretty sure the stores receive them are required to have a specific amount of space