Why would you say this? The Target Lock isn't spent when you fire it. So, you get to use your TL for rerolls. Also, the enemy can't spend an evade token for defense. All that for one point over a Concussion Missile. To me, it's a great missile. I always use one on Jonus.

http://miniwarroom.blogspot.ca/2014/11/darkhorses-strange-love-or-how-i.html

I think they do quite well. Tough as nails and they they just keep coming.

I was looking at Tie Bombers as an oddball option for all the big, turreted ships in the local meta. I read Darkhorse659's excellent article and was really inspired. I practiced and tried it out. I went to the best local Store Championship in my area. I was the only one to go undefeated into the Final Four.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/135555-4-tie-bombers-store-champion-report/

Tie Bombers have a terrible time vs. Phantoms. I haven't figured out how to deal with them yet. Well, maybe one, but 3 got the best of me.

I'll admit that the meta for that store event was odd as I expected the big, turreted ships. I think I would've done better to face more of them, though. Still, it was a fun event. If you are experienced against the list (like all my regular friends) then it's not too hard to beat. If you don't know what to watch out for, you fall into the traps easily.

I think Tie Bombers do great against a lot of things, except Tie Phantoms.

IF you want to use just one bomber in a list I suggest a Scimitar armed with a Proximity Mine. With the Low Pilot skill you can use it before most ships move or better drop it right on top of a ship you dislike.

Munition Bombers do better in numbers as as interesting as Rhymer is he does far better in epic games as you can have him slam something with a Push the Limit Advance Proton Torpedo or snipe with range three Clusters. You can also spare the few extra points for him unlike normal 100 point squads were he becomes an easy target if he's loaded up.

For Phantom's the Bomber's only real possible answer is Bombs. They'll barely ever let you have a line of sight and you could try having Proxy mines on a few Bombers. Nothing likes having them dropped on top of them.

Why would you say this? The Target Lock isn't spent when you fire it. So, you get to use your TL for rerolls. Also, the enemy can't spend an evade token for defense. All that for one point over a Concussion Missile. To me, it's a great missile. I always use one on Jonus.

I'm glad you like it. Math says it's pretty terrible.

For that matter, with Deadeye and Munitions Failsafe, you're basically paying 6 points a missile, except you can now fire at PS>6 ships on the first round of combat, and in the unlikely event that you miss, you get to keep your missile.

Definitely not worth the points.

_**_* Edit: Elucidating on the "Math says it's pretty terrible" bit _**_*

Homing Missiles vs Concussion Missiles

HM allows the maintenance of the TL through the attack, and cannot be blocked by Evade Tokens.

CM costs 1 point less, and converts a Blank to a [boom].

HM's damage is pretty easy to calculate. It has an expected damage rate of 3 if you spend the TL, or 2 if you don't.

CM's damage is also pretty easy to calculate. 4 dice with no modifier has an expected damage rate of 2, but of the two misses, the odds are 50/50 that at least one is Blank, and so actually be an expected damage rate of 3.

So, now the difference at face-value is that the HM costs 1 point more and can't be blocked by Evade Tokens.

This attack not being blockable by Evade Tokens only matters if your fleet is not expecting to deal any more damage to that enemy this turn, or if the enemy is Laetin Ashera. Otherwise, they'll still get to spend that evade token this turn anyway.

Is 1 point worth the slightly higher chance of being the ship that deals the deathblow? Not when we look at what that 1 point can buy you in your fleet.

I recommended replacing both Homing Missiles with Concussion Missiles, and using the two salvaged points to change Deadeye to Push the Limit.

Deadeye would actually lead you to dealing slightly less damage with HM, as you lose the chance to get extra Criticals out of your modifier. In exchange, you get to shoot at PS>6 pilots who would otherwise run out of the range in that one turn. Excuse me, PS>8, as you could have picked up Veteran's Instincts instead.

It's not the greatest Elite Talent.

With PtL, your damage with CM is suddenly expected to be 4, excepting only the times in which you've rolled more than 1 blank result, the odds of which are bloody rare.

With PtL, your EPT is no longer rendered useless after you've launched your missiles, which is a huge bonus.

I think you mean Concussion Missiles, but I understand what you are saying.

What I am hearing is that the averages for the two missiles are the same, but what I'm thinking is that the outliers are the key to the equation. On those off chances that you roll crap, you can pick up all those dice and roll it again. If you look at the chances for the amount of hits you generate and percentages you will see the Homing Missile has the greater chance of doing more damage more often. If you pick it up and roll all blanks and eyeballs, you get the chance to pick them all up again and roll them all. If it were a Concussion Missile, it is just one hit. I'd rather have the Homing Missile.

Also, I don't mind keeping that Evade token there. Not every turn am I even firing on the same target with everyone. Sometimes I'm only able to get at TL with the PS6 guy and if he shunts the Evade, I'm OK. There are a lot of reasons for Evade tokens these days with Falcons, Yssane, and Lando.

I was one dice roll away from going undefeated into the Final match, with my 4x Bomber list this past Sunday.

Fuggin' 3PO.

They do need love though, as it constantly felt like playing Tekken with max handicap.

I really like the homing missle over the concussion. For only 1 more point you get to use your target lock, so you are usually attacking with TL and focus. the fact that you can ignore the evade token is icing on the cake. If I am going to take a missle that's not prockets or clusters, I'm probably going to bring a homing missle. concussion is not bad, but I think 1 more point for homing is worth it, especially for high agilty targets.

I ran the following on Vassal, and was just able to pull out the win in the end against soontir/RAC. One-shotting a stealthed/autothruster Fel with a proxy mine is just so satisfying.

Vader+X1+ATC+Pred+Engine

3xSchimitar+flechette torp+proxy mine

The Idea is that for those smaller ships, the auto-stress threat at range, and the proxy mine threat up close will really deter those scary end-game ships. Then you have your single endgame ship (could switch Vader for Soontir easy) to clean up whatever ship is left at the end. I like Vader since he can (ideally) lock a big ship and try to slowly drag it down with crits since the bombers don't deal with the big ships well.

Is it competitive? Maybe. Unfortunately you are still at the mercy of 3 naked red dice. But it was pretty fun to fly.

I would like to see a bomber with a emon - like ability, maybe with the range 2 template instead of range 3. I'd also like to see a mod which is tie bomber only which allows you to replace up to 2 ordnance slots with bombs.

Or a modification that let's you fire two missles in 1 turn. Wreaking havoc in a single turn

Or a modification that let's you fire two missles in 1 turn. Wreaking havoc in a single turn

unfortunately impossible unless you can guarantee two target-locks or two-focus (or mix and match I suppose) because of the asinine restrictions on most one-shot weapons

At this point, what the Bomber needs most is either an errata to how ordinance works or the release of ordinance that doesn't completely suck. Ion Pulse missiles and Flechette torps were a step in the right direction (and the prox mine errata was huge), but it's not enough.

The B-wing is a masterpiece of a ship because its various upgrade slots give it a wealth of options in addition to excellent base stats. The Bomber has the base stats down, but the variety of upgrade slots is diminished by the variety of crap we get to fill them with.

Or a modification that let's you fire two missles in 1 turn. Wreaking havoc in a single turn

unfortunately impossible unless you can guarantee two target-locks or two-focus (or mix and match I suppose) because of the asinine restrictions on most one-shot weapons.

Or a modification that let's you fire two missles in 1 turn. Wreaking havoc in a single turn

unfortunately impossible unless you can guarantee two target-locks or two-focus (or mix and match I suppose) because of the asinine restrictions on most one-shot weapons.

Offcourse both missles can be fired on a single TL or focus.

Alternatively, it's a massive buff to Homings, Ion Pulses, and Flechettes

I agree that Bombers are fine, but it's Ordnance that is not very competitive. My list (which is really Darkhorse's list) minimalizes the problems with ordnance, which is why it works. Well, that and people just don't know how to fly against Bombers. I really hate flying against Phantoms, though. I haven't figured out how to beat them.

I'm tempted to go to Regionals with my Tie Bomber list, but I'm sure to see a lot of Phantoms.

I think a big thing TIE Bombers are missing is a Bomber pilot that doesn't pay a bunch of points for his/her piloting ability.

Jonus pays 2 points on top of the PS progression for his ability, which is probably because they didn't want to accidentally make a 6 HP Howlrunner.

Rhymer pays 5! points on top of the PS progression for his ability. I guess the designers were terrified of APTs that were range 2 (still costing 6 points each).

A PS 5 pilot, with a modest (or no) ability and an EPT that costs 20 points would really give you some good options for the Bomber.

Even better would be some range 2-3 Ordnance that was like Proton Rockets in that it used Focus (held or spent, either way). That would let the low PS pilots take part in an alpha strike, which feels right to me. You could limit such a weapon to 3 dice so you wouldn't have 4 or 5 4-dice opening shots.

Generic Bomber pilots ala the Royal Guard for Interceptors would be very much welcome, if only because you'd have somewhere to slap Deadeye on

Or a modification that let's you fire two missles in 1 turn. Wreaking havoc in a single turn

unfortunately impossible unless you can guarantee two target-locks or two-focus (or mix and match I suppose) because of the asinine restrictions on most one-shot weapons.

Offcourse both missles can be fired on a single TL or focus.

Alternatively, it's a massive buff to Homings, Ion Pulses, and Flechettes

Aye, you can destroy most ships in a single turn. Making the threat of the bomber much bigger and a force to be reckoned with.

I'd be thrilled if they made a Jonus who was able to adjust his own dice only. I'd be fine with just taking one Tie Bomber in a list and giving him 2-3 missiles and torps.

I will happily point out that not all ordnance is terrible.

Flechette Torpedoes, for instance, are quite lovely.

Consider the following for a 99 point Alpha-Strike / Control fleet

4x Scimitar Squadron Pilots

+ Flechette Torpedoes

+ Munitions Failsafe

._{-=19 Each=-}.

Captain Jonus

+ Determination

._-=23=-.

Each of those Flechettes is getting 3 dice with the better part of a Target Lock, so you're expecting 2-3 damage whenever one is launched. Woo!

However, this is also a Control fleet. You've got 30 bloody hull for your opponent to chew through, and each of those bloody Flechettes will stress someone out when you launch them.

Even better, if you're firing at someone with bloody high damage mitigation (Hello, Whisper!), you get to keep your flechette to stress them again the following turn.

Similarly, if you decide that the damage you threw out wasn't enough to warrant you discarding the flechettes, you can use the Jonus bonus to re-roll the damage results instead of the whiffs.

Whisper isn't that much of a threat when you've buried the ship under a mountain of stress tokens.

Also, by raw stats, the Bomber is probably the best ship for Determination. It has good mitigation (2 agility) and 6-7 hull, so you'll be receiving a greater-than-normal proportion of your incoming damage as crits (because Hits are blocked first), and have a lot of hull to accumulate them on.

Ergo, you should find a good number of Pilot crits to laugh at.

Pity that Jonus is the only Bomber with an EPT slot worth taking, but his ability is definitely one worth protecting thusly, so it works out.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Imperial Aces II, featuring Bombers (and possibly Defenders?).

I'd be thrilled if they made a Jonus who was able to adjust his own dice only. I'd be fine with just taking one Tie Bomber in a list and giving him 2-3 missiles and torps.

y'mean Horton Salm?

I've wanted to use him for a torpedo platform often...

Still, not the same as a Tie Bomber version of him in an Imperial list.

I will happily point out that not all ordnance is terrible.

Flechette Torpedoes, for instance, are quite lovely.

Consider the following for a 99 point Alpha-Strike / Control fleet

4x Scimitar Squadron Pilots

+ Flechette Torpedoes

+ Munitions Failsafe

._{-=19 Each=-}.

Captain Jonus

+ Determination

._-=23=-.

Each of those Flechettes is getting 3 dice with the better part of a Target Lock, so you're expecting 2-3 damage whenever one is launched. Woo!

However, this is also a Control fleet. You've got 30 bloody hull for your opponent to chew through, and each of those bloody Flechettes will stress someone out when you launch them.

Even better, if you're firing at someone with bloody high damage mitigation (Hello, Whisper!), you get to keep your flechette to stress them again the following turn.

Similarly, if you decide that the damage you threw out wasn't enough to warrant you discarding the flechettes, you can use the Jonus bonus to re-roll the damage results instead of the whiffs.

Whisper isn't that much of a threat when you've buried the ship under a mountain of stress tokens.

Also, by raw stats, the Bomber is probably the best ship for Determination. It has good mitigation (2 agility) and 6-7 hull, so you'll be receiving a greater-than-normal proportion of your incoming damage as crits (because Hits are blocked first), and have a lot of hull to accumulate them on.

Ergo, you should find a good number of Pilot crits to laugh at.

Pity that Jonus is the only Bomber with an EPT slot worth taking, but his ability is definitely one worth protecting thusly, so it works out.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Imperial Aces II, featuring Bombers (and possibly Defenders?).

This is a very intriguing list. You can knock out the arc dodging ability of fat turrets with EU. You can kill Soontir's stacks of tokens (well, aside from the pile of Focus you give him initially), you can stop Whisper from re-cloaking, you can stop Rebel Swarms from K-turning on you. All with 30 hit points behind AGI 2. I don't know that I'd call it an alpha strike squad, though. You're not very likely to get a TL on anyone in the opening engagement, so you're initially only getting a bunch of 2-dice shots. Is it worth dropping one of the Flechettes and Munitions Failsafes for an Ion Pulse Missile?

Consider the following for a 99 point Alpha-Strike / Control fleet

4x Scimitar Squadron Pilots

+ Flechette Torpedoes

+ Munitions Failsafe

._{-=19 Each=-}.

Captain Jonus

+ Determination

._-=23=-.

This is a very intriguing list. You can knock out the arc dodging ability of fat turrets with EU. You can kill Soontir's stacks of tokens (well, aside from the pile of Focus you give him initially), you can stop Whisper from re-cloaking, you can stop Rebel Swarms from K-turning on you. All with 30 hit points behind AGI 2. I don't know that I'd call it an alpha strike squad, though. You're not very likely to get a TL on anyone in the opening engagement, so you're initially only getting a bunch of 2-dice shots. Is it worth dropping one of the Flechettes and Munitions Failsafes for an Ion Pulse Missile?

First off, Flechettes only work if the enemy has a hull value of 4 or fewer, so it doesn't work on the Fat Turrets. Still works on the rest of it, though .

As for its Alpha-Strike capability being suspect, the TIE-Bomber can slow-play like nobody's business, so you'll have more than just 1 turn in Range 2-3.

New damage deck mechanics make them invulnrable as your deck runs out of cards.

I'm confused. The rulebook is pretty clear on that:

Page 21

In the unlikely event that there are no Damage cards remaining in the deck or discard pile, change all [unfilled explosion] results rolled to [filled explosion] results. Use a suitable replacement to track additional damage until the deck is replenished.

Also, even a full swarm of 6 is only 36 hull, 37 with the one Hull Upgrade you have room for. That means that you can take a maximum of 31 hull points before a ship explodes, sending the cards to the Discard, ready to be reshuffled after the last 2 cards are drawn.

"Each of those Flechettes is getting 3 dice with the better part of a Target Lock, so you're expecting 2-3 damage whenever one is launched. Woo!"

you know Flechettes only do one damage right?

"Each of those Flechettes is getting 3 dice with the better part of a Target Lock, so you're expecting 2-3 damage whenever one is launched. Woo!"

you know Flechettes only do one damage right?

Flechette Torpedoes don't cancel their own damage.

Flechette Cannons do, and Ion Pulse Missiles do, so I can see your confusion.

Do what the card says, and don't do what the card doesn't say