First off, you folks blow my mind, so many of you have really taken this game to a level I am sure the folks at FFG did not expect, this game has reached a chess like level of strategic game play that amazes me, my hats off to all of you, ok on to my question

I have been playing extreme casual rebels for 6 months I would prefer to play Imperial on a purely thematic basis, some of my games will be against player with far more skill than myself.

Do Imperial list require a higher skill set than rebels, such factors a larger number of ships (swarm) raising the risk for collisions, or tricky flying of the Phantoms, seem to suggest the need for better skill.

I figure I will learn a lot more by losing to high level players than I will by winning against lower level players.

But I really prefer the dark side, is there a way for me to figure out what will work as a good list to use to learn with my lower skill set?

Please help me find a good learning list.

generally speaking, yes imperial lists require a higher skill cap as one wrong movement can cost you the game

rebel armies can tend to make a few mistakes and still come out on top due to their hardy ships

that being said though, in top end competitive play, one wrong misplay can cost you the game no matter which faction you're flying (assuming your opponent is able to capitalize on your mistake)

generally speaking, yes imperial lists require a higher skill cap as one wrong movement can cost you the game

rebel armies can tend to make a few mistakes and still come out on top due to their hardy ships

that being said though, in top end competitive play, one wrong misplay can cost you the game no matter which faction you're flying (assuming your opponent is able to capitalize on your mistake)

So what would you build if you were teaching someone to be a better player

You'll learn from your defeat only if you are able to understand your mistakes, so make sure your opponent is willing to give you you a "de-briefing" session so you both can talk about it (better with a couple of beers in front of you, too).

Imperials are harder to master (with a few exceptions) because less forgiving but more deadly if played well, but if you are a good player you'll be good whatever you'll decide to fly.

I think it sort of comes down to finding a ship you like and building around it. I personally love defenders, so many of my builds focus on them. You will learn to fly with any list really, and you will enjoy it the most with a list you love.

depends on what you're using and what you like. You're going to be more dedicated to learning what you want to play, obviously.

overall, sure imps are less forgiving but there is very little difference in how easy a decimator is to use compared to a falcon. Whisper is also very forgiving and incredibly powerful.

You generally want to start with a lower ship count to manage less stuff and work your way up from there. To that end, the cancerous and repetitive two ship Whisper + Chiraneau build is one of the easiest to use and win with in the game because you have much less to worry about (Two ships, only one arc, very little consequence for skipping action phase, plenty of course-corrections via de-cloak/roll/boost, luxury of only moving after opponent etc.)

If you don't want to bore your opponents to death, though, a simple Whisper + mini-swarm is a great starting point. The Ties take some getting used to, be even flown as a lump of dice they can do some surprising damage, and the two extremes (the PS 9 arc-dodging whisper and the PS 1 blocking Ties) will teach you both sides of the game pretty well.

I agree with all the Lads, thats how I learned. I started playing jan 1st 2014. I spent about 6 weeks getting my arse shot off by my Jedi Master.( A friend who was already taken over by the Darkside.) I learned from my blunders.( there were many LOL!, flying into rocks, ships, rocks...off the map!!) But mainly getting my arse shot off. Thankyou verymuch ! After acquiring several maps and more Xwing stuff, I set up games and lists to play against solitaire kinda sorta. OK! I was playing with myself! OK? anyway, its a great way to learn all the dials, opening moves, rock placement, etc. The rules? learn them and read this site my friend. You are right, there is mucho talent to be found in these posts and replies! For it twas here that I learned much....after getting my arse shot off!

I raise my Pint to the Darkside! , my teacher and friend, and all here!! oh! and Scum

The level of skill isn't THAT much higher. It's a few tick, but nothing you can't start practicing if you've already got plenty of Rebel games.

Honestly, this is great practice, and also a tier 1 champ build: (Don't fly against 4 rebel control lists like BBYY):

Granted, I'm a new player to X-Wing as well, but it seems pretty obvious that many Imp builds require higher skill because some of those builds run lots of ships. For example, doing a Howl Runner/TIE swarm can mean having five or six ships that must fly in tight formation, which means lots of bumps/lost actions for inexperienced players.

However, there are exceptions to this. Imps can still run great lists with a low ship count, especially when you consider running Whisper, a Decimator, or Soontir Fel.

The flip side of TIE swarm is that yes, it takes a higher skill level to master, but it's also something that every player should experience to take their game to the next level. Formation flying is something that any good player needs to learn.

Turret lists for any faction are good starters, but it's not very different from playing a Rebel turret list -- just fly in circles and continue taking shots.

Now, for some good faction-specific playstyle for the Imperials, I'd recommend a TIE Defender. They're beefy, strong, have plenty of speed and that beautiful white k-turn. But be careful, because their only green maneuvers are forward maneuvers, and their turns / banks aren't very forgiving. Try:

Colonel Vessery

- Veteran Instincts

- Heavy Laser Cannon

Omicron Group Pilot .

- Darth Vader

- ST-321

Use the shuttle to target lock anything on the board, then have Vessery plow in and get free Target Locks from attacking a target that's already been TLed by the Shuttle. Essentially, Vessery is there to deal a 4-die attack and strip tokens / shields, then the shuttle comes in with a TLed attack followed by Vader.

This is easy to get used to because Vessery doesn't have to worry about taking Target Locks so long as the enemy ship has already been locked onto. WIth ST-321, Vessery can almost always fire down a target with Focus + TL. Vader dealing insta-crits is also nasty.

Use the above skeleton and then fill in the list as you see fit. You'll find that TIE Fighters are point-for-point the best filler in the game. Twelve points, pretty survivable with their agility and a nightmare for other ships. If you want to play Imperials, you must master blocking with TIE Fighter Generics. The Academy Pilot accels at this like no other ship in the game save for perhaps a Rebel A-Wing. Take glorious advantage of the TIE's 1-hard turns and barrel rolling to muck up your opponent's plans.

I would say fly a list that contains these:

Whisper (VI, ACD, etc.

Soontir (PTL, Auto Thrusters, etc.)

Academy Ties

It may or may not be optimized, but it will teach you the core aspects of blocking, decloaking/dodging with phantoms, and arc dodging with interceptors - all core concepts for imperials.

A few other concepts to master:

6+ ties with howlrunner (learn to fly them together in formation and within range 1 or Howlrunner)

Practice with lists that has a high PS VT-49 or Firespray, with engine upgrade. Basically learn to fly a large base ship through tight knit asteroids and learn to arc dodge with engine upgrade.

Let me add none of those types of lists I posted are beginners lists, but you will learn a lot and go far by failing with them.

Let me add none of those types of lists I posted are beginners lists, but you will learn a lot and go far by failing with them.

Ahhh. Thanks for making that clear.

My goal is to improve and learn not to start winning more games fromday one.