It's criminal that star vipers can't evade! Xizor would be so good with an evade action! Slap a fcs or accuracy corrector and either go vi or push.

I made top 8 in a store championship running Scum Kath with the black sun enforcers both with auto thrusters. I seem them like I do defenders, the named ones are too expensive for their abilities but the un-named ones can make nice "fillers"

Here's the deal: for the PS1 with auto that's 27 points. Comparably that's also a royal guard with ptl and auto. However the added bonuses of the starviper are incredible over the ptl guard: the ps1 here combined with normally useless movement options gives you an extremely good blocker. Just like how ties are better blockers due to barrel roll and 1 hard turn. Also the two extra health ensure that the ship doesn't get one shot and also reduces the likilihood the opponent even selects it as a primary target. This allows you to slowly get the magic that is the required extra from its jousting efficiency.

Auto is incredibly good for anti turreting. The true jousting value of the ps1 I think should include auto and it's added survivability.

The notion that you run out of time is a fallacy and if you seem to end up this way you need to learn to clean up your playing, most the games at the store actually ended before time was called, with only 2 at most being called for time. Actually most of mine were done in 35-45 minutes and that is with flanking and strafe runs. I got second in the tournament was 4-0 (659 MoV) in swiss and tabled people in 3 games of the tournament. Kath being the only fatality outside of my final lose.

Except you are not in control of how fast your opponent plays. If your games generally don't go to time it means that you have fast opponents too.

I understand the attraction too Guri, but for one more point you get 2 PS and a game changing ability. Xizor is currently being over looked and it won't take long till we see the Prince find his place in a 60 minute game.

I find this ability worthless and would rather just focus him down and get on with the game. Thanks for helping damage your other ships while I killed your main piece, and more than likely flying predicable.

But it doesn't work that way. The way you lose in Xwing is when you can't focus fire and take ships off the board quickly. PX, one way or another, forces his opponent to be unable to concentrate fire. He is the S&V Biggs, but better.

He is the S&V anti-Biggs

Xizor's ability is criminally (heh) underestimated and incredibly powerful because partial damage does so little in X-wing. A ship with X damage is still a ship so long as it's not dead, and firing at Xizor might hurt his buddies a little but it's giving Xizor the equivalent of a free evade per shot, regardless of action that doesn't trigger gunner or care about auto-blaster.

Focusing down Xizor is basically the worst decision when you could be firing at his bodyguards (who will almost always have less than 3 agility to work through) instead. In that case, though, you give Xizor free reign to get some devastating shots.

Bingo. Naked Xizor is only slightly tilted towards the tank / glass cannon scale, so you might as well just kill his escorts anyway. If he is supported by BTL-A4 Y-wings, then you would be far better off attacking his escorts even if xizor had no pilot ability.

He is the S&V anti-Biggs

Xizor's ability is criminally (heh) underestimated and incredibly powerful because partial damage does so little in X-wing. A ship with X damage is still a ship so long as it's not dead, and firing at Xizor might hurt his buddies a little but it's giving Xizor the equivalent of a free evade per shot, regardless of action that doesn't trigger gunner or care about auto-blaster.

Focusing down Xizor is basically the worst decision when you could be firing at his bodyguards (who will almost always have less than 3 agility to work through) instead. In that case, though, you give Xizor free reign to get some devastating shots.

Bingo. Naked Xizor is only slightly tilted towards the tank / glass cannon scale, so you might as well just kill his escorts anyway. If he is supported by BTL-A4 Y-wings, then you would be far better off attacking his escorts even if xizor had no pilot ability.

That's why Xizor only makes sense if you load him up with upgrades to make him a threat; more of a glass cannon. Otherwise, there's no reason to target him before anyone else and it's easy to sidestep his ability. Good Xizor use is all about taking advantage of how he changes target priority.

So, is an advanced proton torpedo on guri a bad idea, or genius, since no one has brought it up yet?

So, is an advanced proton torpedo on guri a bad idea, or genius, since no one has brought it up yet?

It's obviously easier to get the TL+F stack at range 1. I still have to work out the math to see if the points are worth it though, vs a regular 4 dice primary TL+F attack. Someday, I will get around to doing a comprehensive ordnance evaluation.

So, is an advanced proton torpedo on guri a bad idea, or genius, since no one has brought it up yet?

Of course it´s a great idea, but the thing is Adv torpedoes are 6 points... I can do a lot of things with 6 points

He is the S&V anti-Biggs

Xizor's ability is criminally (heh) underestimated and incredibly powerful because partial damage does so little in X-wing. A ship with X damage is still a ship so long as it's not dead, and firing at Xizor might hurt his buddies a little but it's giving Xizor the equivalent of a free evade per shot, regardless of action that doesn't trigger gunner or care about auto-blaster.

Focusing down Xizor is basically the worst decision when you could be firing at his bodyguards (who will almost always have less than 3 agility to work through) instead. In that case, though, you give Xizor free reign to get some devastating shots.

Bingo. Naked Xizor is only slightly tilted towards the tank / glass cannon scale, so you might as well just kill his escorts anyway. If he is supported by BTL-A4 Y-wings, then you would be far better off attacking his escorts even if xizor had no pilot ability.

That's why Xizor only makes sense if you load him up with upgrades to make him a threat; more of a glass cannon. Otherwise, there's no reason to target him before anyone else and it's easy to sidestep his ability. Good Xizor use is all about taking advantage of how he changes target priority.

Even withbupgrades he wontbbe targeted

Target priority in list building has little to do with his effectiveness, it's target priority on the table top.

Ideally, anythin g threatening xizor's thugs/pirates better have xizoe breathing down its nose and generally not giving a ****.

The amount of freedom his ability gives you ito positioning is difficult to fully articulate online, but its the reason his ability is so magical. Evennif it never triggers, you (the player) can exploit it to no end like some ******* on the freeway: large and in charge and with the complete disregard for basic human decency.

Xizor will rarely get shot and his ability will rarely trigger. Great! That's the POINT! Shove him in whispers face and put his ass to work

This is going to be one of those threads I revive when all the current nay-sayers begin singing Xizor's praises after he is featured in a regional or world champion list. S&V has breathed new life into this game. You cannot fly these ships effectively if you are playing the PS or swarm game. They work differently than the two original fractions.

I couldn't agree more... In fact, people have been using them to great success and I think that it will continue.

He is the S&V anti-Biggs

Xizor's ability is criminally (heh) underestimated and incredibly powerful because partial damage does so little in X-wing. A ship with X damage is still a ship so long as it's not dead, and firing at Xizor might hurt his buddies a little but it's giving Xizor the equivalent of a free evade per shot, regardless of action that doesn't trigger gunner or care about auto-blaster.

Focusing down Xizor is basically the worst decision when you could be firing at his bodyguards (who will almost always have less than 3 agility to work through) instead. In that case, though, you give Xizor free reign to get some devastating shots.

Bingo. Naked Xizor is only slightly tilted towards the tank / glass cannon scale, so you might as well just kill his escorts anyway. If he is supported by BTL-A4 Y-wings, then you would be far better off attacking his escorts even if xizor had no pilot ability.

That's why Xizor only makes sense if you load him up with upgrades to make him a threat; more of a glass cannon. Otherwise, there's no reason to target him before anyone else and it's easy to sidestep his ability. Good Xizor use is all about taking advantage of how he changes target priority.

Even withbupgrades he wontbbe targeted

Target priority in list building has little to do with his effectiveness, it's target priority on the table top.

Ideally, anythin g threatening xizor's thugs/pirates better have xizoe breathing down its nose and generally not giving a ****.

The amount of freedom his ability gives you ito positioning is difficult to fully articulate online, but its the reason his ability is so magical. Evennif it never triggers, you (the player) can exploit it to no end like some ******* on the freeway: large and in charge and with the complete disregard for basic human decency.

Xizor will rarely get shot and his ability will rarely trigger. Great! That's the POINT! Shove him in whispers face and put his ass to work

I think we agree (?). The key to Xizor is that his ability makes him a bad target (the change to target priority I was talking about). The key to exploiting his ability is to make him into something that should not be ignored. That way, if the enemy targets him, his ability triggers and their attacks are less effective than they normally would be, or they attack his buddies first, leaving Xizor to do damage/make it to the endgame.

So, is an advanced proton torpedo on guri a bad idea, or genius, since no one has brought it up yet?

I have tried APT on Farlander with a Stay on Target Adv Sensors build. I would say APT works better on Guri then Farlander but on Guri it is best as a finisher for breaking ships that have 3 hit points left (like a B-wing without shields).

Main problem with that use (and another problem with APT) besides the 6 point cost is Guri's 5 pilot skill. Star Vipers are only as tough as a HWK so same number of hits to take a X-wing will kill a Star Viper and they are more vulnerable to critical hits. You would want VI + SU along with the APT for that one trick pony that costs 41 points to get a 7 skill starviper. That is almost as the big turreted ships. However since scum doesn't have much besides double Agressors a a semi high skill Star Viper might not be a bad thing to have. But I think Ps 9 Xzior surrounded by Scum Wings would be much better.

I think xizor at ps9 is the way to go and apt would make him a threat! So I'm thinking 43 point xizor with vi, fcs for dice mods and the torps, virago, and auto thrusters then 3 naked y's and you got a 97 point initiative bid!

Also I think you do gotta send xizor into harms way to get them to shoot at him. Xizor at range 1 and a thug at range 2 but range 1 of xizor might be a tough choice.

I think xizor at ps9 is the way to go and apt would make him a threat! So I'm thinking 43 point xizor with vi, fcs for dice mods and the torps, virago, and auto thrusters then 3 naked y's and you got a 97 point initiative bid!

why waste points on torps when you have naked 3 y wings?

You can get Xizor with PS 9, FCS, and thrusters for a mere 37, slap auto-blaster turrets on the Ys and still have the 3 point initiative bid

I know you'd like to force the enemy to shoot Xizor, but it's kind of pointless when < 50% of the squad is so monstrously inefficient.

I think xizor at ps9 is the way to go and apt would make him a threat! So I'm thinking 43 point xizor with vi, fcs for dice mods and the torps, virago, and auto thrusters then 3 naked y's and you got a 97 point initiative bid!

why waste points on torps when you have naked 3 y wings?

You can get Xizor with PS 9, FCS, and thrusters for a mere 37, slap auto-blaster turrets on the Ys and still have the 3 point initiative bid

I know you'd like to force the enemy to shoot Xizor, but it's kind of pointless when < 50% of the squad is so monstrously inefficient.

I've tried a similar build, but gave the Y's the A4 title. They were not much help. I might try this again without the title And instead of astromechs, load up Xizor.

Yeah, BTL-A4 seems like overkill on the already range 1 limited turrets.

By themselves they're not bad. Only ran one amidst other squads to add basically feedback array's big bro, and they're plenty scary. Will rip a phantom in half with every shot you get.

Not sure how they stack against 4 feedback Zs (which can all be upgraded to PS 3s even with a 3 point bid), but I know as a fact they're leagues better than naked Y-wings...

Ran this today in a tourney. Results as shown.

My list was

Xizor, Predator, Autothrusters

Guri, VI, Virago, Accuracy Corrector, Inertial Dampeners, Autothrusters

Serissu, Predator, Stealth Device

Game 1 win 77 - 64

Blue, B-wing/E1, Tactician, Flechette Cannon x 2

Gold, Ion Turret x 2

Game 2 win 100 - 0

Blue, Accuracy Corrector x3

Gold, Ion Turret, R2 unit, BTL-A4

Game 3 win 100 - 38

Col. Vessery, VI, HLC, Shield Upgrade

Rexler Brath, Marksmanship, HLC, EI

Semi Final win 100 - 0 (lost 1 shield)

BBBBZ

Myself and the other finalist called the final a draw as it was getting late on Sunday afternoon and we had places to be.

Ran this today in a tourney. Results as shown.My list wasXizor, Predator, AutothrustersGuri, VI, Virago, Accuracy Corrector, Inertial Dampeners, AutothrustersSerissu, Predator, Stealth DeviceGame 1 win 77 - 64Blue, B-wing/E1, Tactician, Flechette Cannon x 2Gold, Ion Turret x 2Game 2 win 100 - 0Blue, Accuracy Corrector x3Gold, Ion Turret, R2 unit, BTL-A4Game 3 win 100 - 38Col. Vessery, VI, HLC, Shield UpgradeRexler Brath, Marksmanship, HLC, EISemi Final win 100 - 0 (lost 1 shield)BBBBZMyself and the other finalist called the final a draw as it was getting late on Sunday afternoon and we had places to be.

How were you taking advantage of Xizor's pilot ability with this list? I'd imagine two high level Starvipers would eat rebel swarms with little problem.

With a Vengeance.

I don't use Xizor's pilot ability with this list. I find it next to useless, but Xizor, at PS7 with Predator and Autothrusters is the best ship in scum to use with the other 2. The list uses the three pilots together to garner success. It has a high defense capability and a pretty high damage output as well. Think of it as the scum equivalent of 3 Tie Int's from a flying standpoint, a little different, but it requires canny flying to work. It is a natural transition for me as I fly 3 x Int's almost exclusively.

It's also nicely maneuverable both in and out of formation flight.

I've been experimenting with a Warthog + Guri or Xizor list. The latest iteration is:

Thug Strife

Xizor + Virago + Inertial Dampeners + Accuracy Corrector + VI + AT (39)

2 x Thug + Ion + Unhinged Astro + BTL (24 each)

1 x Binayre Pirate (12)

99

Haven't had a chance to test it against Phantoms yet but it has worked well against BBBBZ and Falcon + ZZZ. I tried another version with a slim Guri and an M3-A with flechette cannon, but I think I prefer a beefier Viper.

One thing that I think is important with a Xizor list is approach. I guess I play a lot of different lists and most of them have more than 3 ships in the list. So, the first pass can be pretty brutal. If you take Xizor with 5 Z-95's, I can see it not being a problem. If you go with fewer ships, the few games I've had see those ships blown up fast. How do people approach the enemy with a Xizor list to avoid a nasty first pass that sees their ships dead?

It's got me thinking of dropping my Y-wing with Ion Turret for more Z's.

Try and get pass one to be at R3. Xizor is a knife fighter after the first pass, get in close and use your abilities.

It's not that people shoot at Xizor. The opposite. They kill his escort fast. Even if you get at R3 for the first shots, you are usually at R1 after that. In those first few turns, I see a lot of Xizor's escort die. I'm wondering what methods people do against it? To me, I'm thinking a Z-95 swarm might be the best option. If I'm facing 3-4 B-wings all together, I will see dead ships. If I can mass enough crummy ships to fire back, I can see causing enough damage on the first pass by to be worth it. I'm wondering about other options, though.