One thing that I think is important with a Xizor list is approach. I guess I play a lot of different lists and most of them have more than 3 ships in the list. So, the first pass can be pretty brutal. If you take Xizor with 5 Z-95's, I can see it not being a problem. If you go with fewer ships, the few games I've had see those ships blown up fast. How do people approach the enemy with a Xizor list to avoid a nasty first pass that sees their ships dead?

It's got me thinking of dropping my Y-wing with Ion Turret for more Z's.

If you have a few bulky ships, like Y-wings, you should be OK for the first pass. At least, Prince Xizor will be OK. Xizor likes beefy escorts; Pirates and thugs do pretty well in that role.

If Xizor isn't getting shot, I'd put him in the front of the formation. That way he'll have better shots at the enemy, comparatively, and he can still pass damage to his buddies.

If you're running 3 fragile ships, then I'd stick with the same sort of tactics that interceptor lists use. Avoid the joust, try to engage on the flanks of your enemy's formation. And try to make them maneuver in a way that disrupts their formation (if they have one). If you're facing turreted ships, get out of their front arcs so autothrusters can kick in reliably.

Star Vipers add some important Firepower 3 to a firepower 2 heavy faction. I've thus far only fought against mine but they do seem to fill the tie interceptor/defender role nicely.

Defense falls into two categories. The ability not to be hit. (the list I posted) or so many ships that being hit doesn't matter. I tried the later with Xizor and it didn't work because Z's make for a poor mini swarm defensively and offensively. That left me with "Don't get hit"

At PS7 and 8 in my list I am shooting first at B's and if they are Blue's, they take a pounding.

It's not that people shoot at Xizor. The opposite. They kill his escort fast. Even if you get at R3 for the first shots, you are usually at R1 after that. In those first few turns, I see a lot of Xizor's escort die. I'm wondering what methods people do against it? To me, I'm thinking a Z-95 swarm might be the best option. If I'm facing 3-4 B-wings all together, I will see dead ships. If I can mass enough crummy ships to fire back, I can see causing enough damage on the first pass by to be worth it. I'm wondering about other options, though.

Good! In a Xizor Z-swarm list, the Zs are mostly there to eat damage for Xizor whom should be loaded for bear! Every round he should be hitting something for 3 or 4 damage. Even with only 2 or 3 attack dice, those Zs can put a little more hurt on ships without tokens to aid in their defense. I also like to put Feedback Arrays on the Zs to insure they do damage to high agility targets.

Will your Z's die? Yes. But the idea is for Xizor to mop up his opponents and suck up every bit of help he can from the Zs. They are pawns meant to die so Xizor can live (and win).

Xizor is definitely meant to be your late game closer so don't worry if they kill the escorts first.

Good! In a Xizor Z-swarm list...

Yes...in a Xizor Z-swarm list it's good. I wasn't really in a Xizor Z-swarm, though. What I'm saying is that I think the Z-swarm is the way to go with Xizor, but I'm trying to think of other ways to make him work. The list that I had was:

Xizor w/ AutoT, Adv. Sensors, Predator

Torkhil Mux w/ Ion Turret

3 x Z-95

I'll admit that I have only played two games, so I'm just basing this on what I've played. I played against a lot of B-wings and A BTL Y-wing list. What happened was I lost a lot of the escort too fast on the first pass. I want to have Torkhil for when I face Phantoms, but I need the list to work against normal lists, too.

So....what strategies can you do for a list like this on the first pass through? Do you just go in with guns blazing? Or try something clever?

Perhaps this would work for you?

It actually can't bodyguard Mux, due to having a higher PS than him.

Guys. Ive tested the viper intensively. I cant decide which is better; xizor with as, at, pred, title and 5 pirates or same xizor and 4 pirates with hot shots. Hotshots are good vs a lot of stuff but 5 pirates is Way better than four imho. I have won with both versions. Opinions?

Yesterday i tested the guri, xizor, enforcer build and it kicks ass. But for totally different reasons. I want to crack the case on the swarm thing too.

I brought my first Starviper and flew Guri with it at 150 points against a team of super A-wings and a Super Dash. Out of the four ships I flew, only Guri and my Autoblaster Y-wing carried the game despite never having the first blow; just being able to chuck out heavy 3's in both defence and offense is something that only the defenders can claim fame to; with the constant force point one can have a direct advantage in a duel, though against a list hyper specialised to go first much of her speed advantage had been lost.

The unique Sigma turn however was incredable.

I really felt the lack of a 3 tight turn though. Which makes it difficult to chase craft that is actively trying to avoid line of sight by going fast I feel.

In short, my first taste of it got me to like it a little; but I have yet to get a feel for the crafts potential. Though the skill 1 varients kind of interest me (though it seems somewhat redunant with the pressence of the best 12 point ship in the game, is 3/3 and 5 hits better then two lots of 2/2 and 8 hits? Time will tell.)

Top 4 list at a store championship I went to yesterday:

Torkil Mux

- Ion Cannon Turret

3 Black Sun Enforcers

Total: 99 points

Unfortunately, the only match I was able to watch with this list was his Top 4, where he fell to an Oicunn/Soontir/Academy list. However, the very fact that he was able to make it to Top 4 against a very strong 28-person field implies that it worked pretty good!

Good! In a Xizor Z-swarm list...

Yes...in a Xizor Z-swarm list it's good. I wasn't really in a Xizor Z-swarm, though. What I'm saying is that I think the Z-swarm is the way to go with Xizor, but I'm trying to think of other ways to make him work. The list that I had was:

Xizor w/ AutoT, Adv. Sensors, Predator

Torkhil Mux w/ Ion Turret

3 x Z-95

I'll admit that I have only played two games, so I'm just basing this on what I've played. I played against a lot of B-wings and A BTL Y-wing list. What happened was I lost a lot of the escort too fast on the first pass. I want to have Torkhil for when I face Phantoms, but I need the list to work against normal lists, too.

So....what strategies can you do for a list like this on the first pass through? Do you just go in with guns blazing? Or try something clever?

You want to get Xizor in close to take range one shots, but not have an entire fleet shooting at him. Because of his ability, you can (and should) fly him recklessly. Remember, you WANT your opponent to waste shots on him. For his support, fly them in a way that they all can't be shot at and 1 or 2 of them stay close to Xizor to be used for his pilot ability and for end of round shots at ships without tokens. The Zs are great blockers. Ships touching them can't shout them (or take an action if they have bumped them).

yay more tests!

so, first game

Guri (Predator, thrusters)

Mux (blaster, recon, crow package)

3 BLOODY PIRATES!!!

versus big kath, a deadman pirate, and two autoblaster Ys (no title, smart)

So yeah, Guri carries this list. She's an awesome little sledgehammer of a pilot that gets the re-rolls + focus a surprising amount of the time, especially in a hairball, and uses them to eviscerate opposing ships. She did easily the majority of the damage that game. Mux was also a very nice touch for letting pirates get their shots off and letting Guri murder kath before kath killed more pirates, though he kept wiffing his blasters

Then went on to test generics

Kath (Expert Handling, K4, hull upgrade because idk what to do with the leftover 3 points)

2 Autothruster Enforcers

versus vessery, title + engineer shuttle, and two tie fighters

tests inconclusive. Not only did I fly Kath off the board at full health (really rusty with large ships) but the poor Vipers were the victims of the most miraculously bad dice rolling I have seen in a long time (including an auto-thruster Enforcer rolling four focus on a range 3 defense, target-lock Kath refusing to roll over 2 damage, and another enforcer getting murdered by a range 1 Tie Fighter while dealing no damage himself)

need to run more tests (and actually handle kath like an expert). Kath was really **** fun despite the board edge looming ever closer (and uncooperative dice) but I don't know how I feel about the Vipers. It wasn't their game to lose, today, but they certainly didn't strike me like Delta Defenders did (I miss the security of 3 shields, flechette/ion cannons. and the white 4k). At the very least, though, the squad looks bad-*******-ass

yay more tests!

so, first game

Guri (Predator, thrusters)

Mux (blaster, recon, crow package)

3 BLOODY PIRATES!!!

versus big kath, a deadman pirate, and two autoblaster Ys (no title, smart)

So yeah, Guri carries this list. She's an awesome little sledgehammer of a pilot that gets the re-rolls + focus a surprising amount of the time, especially in a hairball, and uses them to eviscerate opposing ships. She did easily the majority of the damage that game. Mux was also a very nice touch for letting pirates get their shots off and letting Guri murder kath before kath killed more pirates, though he kept wiffing his blasters

Then went on to test generics

Kath (Expert Handling, K4, hull upgrade because idk what to do with the leftover 3 points)

2 Autothruster Enforcers

versus vessery, title + engineer shuttle, and two tie fighters

tests inconclusive. Not only did I fly Kath off the board at full health (really rusty with large ships) but the poor Vipers were the victims of the most miraculously bad dice rolling I have seen in a long time (including an auto-thruster Enforcer rolling four focus on a range 3 defense, target-lock Kath refusing to roll over 2 damage, and another enforcer getting murdered by a range 1 Tie Fighter while dealing no damage himself)

need to run more tests (and actually handle kath like an expert). Kath was really **** fun despite the board edge looming ever closer (and uncooperative dice) but I don't know how I feel about the Vipers. It wasn't their game to lose, today, but they certainly didn't strike me like Delta Defenders did (I miss the security of 3 shields, flechette/ion cannons. and the white 4k). At the very least, though, the squad looks bad-*******-ass

That double Starviper Kath list is a good one. I was running Predator and Tactician on my Kath. Thinking about swapping out Tactician for Navigator next time. Predator allows Kath to take the evade action and that keeps her on the board longer.

I too had a few points left over and placed it into an Ion cannon, which I never used. Now I'm thinking a bomb might be nice for Kath being I want my opponent to be chasing her.

The real star of this list are those two Starvipers though. They come out, hit hard and survive the opening joust. Then they spend a round or two as annoying blockers. Then they start playing the arc dodging game. Loving these ships!

You want to get Xizor in close to take range one shots, but not have an entire fleet shooting at him. Because of his ability, you can (and should) fly him recklessly. Remember, you WANT your opponent to waste shots on him. For his support, fly them in a way that they all can't be shot at and 1 or 2 of them stay close to Xizor to be used for his pilot ability and for end of round shots at ships without tokens. The Zs are great blockers. Ships touching them can't shout them (or take an action if they have bumped them).

I need more games (this Thursday night), but my problem has been getting things in close enough to bump. I've seen a lot of B-wings or BTL Y-wings that just chew up my Z's before I get in range to bump. It's especially true if I go with the HWK instead of 2 more Z's.

You want to get Xizor in close to take range one shots, but not have an entire fleet shooting at him. Because of his ability, you can (and should) fly him recklessly. Remember, you WANT your opponent to waste shots on him. For his support, fly them in a way that they all can't be shot at and 1 or 2 of them stay close to Xizor to be used for his pilot ability and for end of round shots at ships without tokens. The Zs are great blockers. Ships touching them can't shout them (or take an action if they have bumped them).

I need more games (this Thursday night), but my problem has been getting things in close enough to bump. I've seen a lot of B-wings or BTL Y-wings that just chew up my Z's before I get in range to bump. It's especially true if I go with the HWK instead of 2 more Z's.

This takes practice. The approach plays a huge part in this. B-wings become predictable in certain situations. That 2 K-turn can be brutal, but it easy to block if properly prepared for. Stressed Bs or Bs flying in groups tend to stick to green maneuvers.

Even if you can't block a group of Bs, Move your Zs (or other blocking ships that move before them) in a manor that forces them to break formation. They are far less deadly when they are not all firing at the same thing. I often find my opponents fly their Bs with a bit of overconfidence. Those 8 hit points can drop quickly when a swarm is firing at them.

Here is where the Starviper shines against Bs. That S turn is brutal and will force the B-wings to constantly take stress to keep up. When stressed, B-wings are easy to block (or avoid). The Starviper's defenses are high and it will take a few passes for a B wing to kill them. A no action B wing is not very effective and they fail to put out enough offense before being blown up.