Under Dantari Crystals it reads: When making a Force power check as part of a combat check, a character using a lightsaber with a Dantari crystal may spend (a light side/dark side point) to recover 2 strain. My question is, what is considered a Force power check as part of a combat check? Would dedicating a force die to upgrade an attacker's difficulty count as per the Sense's control option, or does it need to be a Force power you roll Force dice for like Move or Enhance during combat. Also, is there a limit how many times this can be done? Thanks.

Good question and welcome

I would say that just "Saber Powers" because you are the one who make the Action, so, the dice pool is yours, but maybe I miss something.

Thanks for the welcome! I checked the boards but nothing covers it. By "Saber Powers" do you mean talents that have you roll Force dice in the lightsaber specialization trees like Draw Closer or Strategic Form? Those are pretty limited, and some classes don't get them at all.

Yep, those ones. Maybe I'm wrong but those are the only ones that add FR to the dice pool. By the way, every carrieer has a saber tree. But the list of wich ones seems that can be counted for the Dantari are:

- Draw Closer, Defensive circle, Strategic Form, Makashi Finish, Hawk Bat Swoop, Saber Throw and Disruptive Strike.

Since you need to spend a Force Point, not a Destiny Point, there must be actual Force Dice rolled as part of the combat check.

The only option that is allowed by a strict reading of this is the Enhance Control (Brawl) Upgrade. Since the Move (Hurl) Control Upgrade "follows all the rules for ranged attacks," I'd say the rules allow for this to be used as well.

However, since this effect requires you to be wielding the lightsaber, I've always assumed that they meant "Combat check in which you also roll Force dice = Force rating." So this would come in the form of talents:

Draw Closer

Makashi Finish

Hawk Bat Swoop

Saber Throw

Disruptive Strike

Possibly Quick Movement

Possibly Intuitive Shot, if you're using both a blaster & your Dantari lightsaber to attack.

Note that Strategic Form, while a Lightsaber check, is not a combat check, and therefore would not qualify by my interpretation. But that's cool cuz it provides an awesome synergy with Improved/Supreme Parry & Reflect.

Wow, only 6 talents allow you to use the crystal's benefit (Defensive Circle doesn't use the Force)? That seems a little limited. Also, if you have those, you can keep doing those maneuvers and regaining two strain? I would have liked to have seen more clarity on it in the Beta updates.

By that rationale we would get the benefit from the crystal with: Enhance (Brawn) if you were using your brawn for the attack, or Enhance (Agility) if you're using the Agility stat. Move to use an object to hit someone is a Discipline check, and only uses ranged combat if you're attacking multiple objects or targets. I would say Strategic Form would count, as you're actually making a lightsaber check. So basically I can Saber Throw or Hawk Bat Swoop etc. all through the combat and keep regaining 2 strain? Something seems weird about that. Unless there's clarification I missed I think I may need a house rule.

The thing you're missing, I think, is that Force points only come from Force dice. If you're only rolling a bunch of yellow, green, purple, blue, black, and red dice, there is 0% chance of any Light/Dark pips being rolled, and thus 0% chance of generating a Force Point.

So combat checks enhanced by the Sense power's control upgrade, or by the Brawn/Agility upgrades of Enhance, still don't have any possible Force Points being generated to spend on the Dantari Crystal's effects.

So when does it?

So when does it?

When does what, what?

So basically I can Saber Throw or Hawk Bat Swoop etc. all through the combat and keep regaining 2 strain? Something seems weird about that. Unless there's clarification I missed I think I may need a house rule.

Also, you do need to spend Force point to regain the 2 strain, so it's not automatic, and it's usually at the cost of doing something else cool (for example, when using Move, you spend a Force Point to activate upgrades like Range or Magnitude...or when taking the Hawk Bat Swoop action, a Force Point can be spend to engage with your ranged foe or to add Advantage to your check). Obviously 2 strain is worth more than 1 Advantage, so the Dantari crystal has a nice little payoff.

Thanks for the clarification everyone. This seems like such a specialized thing (based on the few talents) that it's definitely not worth it for me. I also dislike the idea of something that encourages players (based on the limited choices to activate the crystal) to use the same talents over and over. Now if you'll excuse me I have some Krayt dragon intestines I need to go through.

Heard your GM is running an infinite time line where the Krayt Dargon has been extinct since Vadar had a tantrum and killed them all when they wouldn't play with him nicely.

I hate when that happens.

Yeah, the way the Dantari Crystal's effects are worded are pretty odd.

On a very technical level, the various talents that combine a Lightsaber combat check with rolling Force dice (such as Draw Closer, Hawk Bat Swoop, Makashi Finish, and Saber Throw) aren't Force power checks; they're Lightsaber skill checks that add one's Force dice. But like I said, that's getting very technical with the wording, with most sensible GMs shouldn't be doing since the Dantari Crystal's special effect becomes fairly worthless.

Sadly, I don't think a lot of folks paid that much attention to the wording of the Dantari Crystal during the actual Beta process, being distracted by "sexier" crystals like the Krayt Dragon Pearl, Mephite Gemstone, Sapith Gem (handy for those times when you want to cripple a TIE fighter), and how in blazes to get an Ilum Crystal fully tricked-out.

My own PC in a Dawn of Defiance game acquired a Dantari Crystal in a sidequest yesterday, so myself and my GM are looking at the crystal and it's effects. Our consensus was that it'd be used with the various Lightsaber Form talents that involve rolling a Force die, which is fine as I'm playing an Ataru Striker that gets two of those talents (Hawk Bat Swoop and Saber Throw) so I've got a decent chance to trigger the crystal's effect.

Of course, another overlooked perk to the Dantari Crystal is that with only three modifications, it doesn't take a lot to get a pretty effective beat-stick, which is handy for an Intellect 2 character with no ranks in Mechanics, since you're not having to worry about how to make the difficultly for the fourth and higher mods like you would have to for an Ilum Crystal. My PC's already managed to mod his crystal for +1 damage and -1 crit rating, giving me a Damage 8, Crit 1 lightsaber. One more damage mod and then (eventually) add in a Superior Hilt Customization and my Ataru Striker will be ready to kick butt and chew gum

....and my Ataru Striker will be ready to kick butt and chew gum

Surely not at the same time??

I was planning the same mods, but had the opportunity to have a Krayt pearl instead, so, not a hard decision.

....and my Ataru Striker will be ready to kick butt and chew gum

Surely not at the same time??

Well, with Enhance and ranks in Coordination, I'm pretty sure my Ataru Striker can manage that feat without much trouble

As a side question, what do you think is more powerful a fully modded Lordian crystal, or a fully modded Krayt Dragon pearl?

As a side question, what do you think is more powerful a fully modded Lordian crystal, or a fully modded Krayt Dragon pearl?

It's apples and oranges. One is great for killing stuff, and the other is great for avoiding being hit.

EDIT: Just carry two sabers, one with each

I suppose I'm asking a system opinion. Is it more effective to have the extra damage and crits to remove opponents more quickly, or will an extra couple of defense dice keep a character alive and fighting long enough for a second attack? Just wondering how defense scales against damage in the system?

I suppose I'm asking a system opinion. Is it more effective to have the extra damage and crits to remove opponents more quickly, or will an extra couple of defense dice keep a character alive and fighting long enough for a second attack? Just wondering how defense scales against damage in the system?

Really depends on your character concept :-p

I've never personally played with a Krayt Dragon Pearl, but I do have a PbP Guardian character who, I know, would prefer one of those over a Lorrdian gemstone. He rushes into battle with his high Soak and Parry talent, and puts the hurt on. So 10 damage & Vicious 4 would be his dream.

Conversely, I have another Guardian character who has a Lorrdian gemstone, and that one works best for him because of who he is. He'd rather make checks that defend his allies than directly attack his enemies, so it makes sense for him. He's a Soresu Defender with a high Intellect.

Suppose it pays for soresu defender with improved parry and improved reflect. The system is balanced enough to use either strategy, damage or defense.

As a side question, what do you think is more powerful a fully modded Lordian crystal, or a fully modded Krayt Dragon pearl?

It's really going to come down to a matter of opinion and what you intend for your character to be in a fight.

A Krayt Dragon Pearl is going to make you pretty devastating against minion groups, since that's a minimum of 11 damage per hit (base 10 plus 1 success) with the Breach 1 ensuring you've dispatched two minions and a single Advantage lets you take out a third. Against something like a Nemesis, those ranks in Vicious are going to allow you to pile on the critical injuries as well as more reliably getting the higher results on the chart; any result above 100 is going to be pretty debilitating to an opponent, if the sheer damage doesn't take them out on the second hit (presuming they don't have the Parry talent or some other way of counteracting the 'saber's Breach quality).

A Lorrdian Gemstone is very much in keeping with the principle of Soresu that a good defense is it's own reward. On the plus side, those extra ranks of Deflection and Defensive, combined with armor that provides a defense bonus, is going to increase the odds of the enemy either missing you completely (always a good thing) or hitting you but with enough threat generated for you to activate Improved Parry or Improved Reflect and get a free attack in, with Improved Reflect being especially handy in this aspect since its effects are based off the attacker's damage result. Combine this with Soresu Defender's Defensive Circle talent and you'll have plenty of chances to make attacks against the bad guys without ever having to actually make an attack roll; this tactic is especially useful with Improved Reflect since the reflected shot doesn't require a separate attack roll, allowing you to pelt a bad guy that's otherwise very difficult to hit. Of course, the down side is that to use Improved Parry/Reflect, you'll need to take some damage as you need to use Parry/Reflect first, so unless you've got a very high Wound Theshold and/or Soak Value, you're in danger of taking more damage than you can handle, to say nothing of the strain costs involved with activating those talents.

They've each got their strengths and flaws. The Krayt Dragon Pearl is great at offense, as are most of the other crystals in one fashion or another, while the Lorrdian Gemstone is fantastic at defense but not as flashy offensively.

Wow, only 6 talents allow you to use the crystal's benefit (Defensive Circle doesn't use the Force)? That seems a little limited. Also, if you have those, you can keep doing those maneuvers and regaining two strain? I would have liked to have seen more clarity on it in the Beta updates.

I like that it's limited because this supports the idea that each crystal is better for certain types of Force users. It'd make it harder to pick one, if all of them worked for everyone.